Pedophiles don't change their spots

[Howl]

The awesome Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board spent the weekend in Moscow, ID talking to all sorts of people about the Kirk, pedophiles, Doug Wilson and related things. She'll be blogging about it over the upcoming week.

Whatever is going on up there in Moscow, it is not the Presbyterian church of my youth.

[MamaJunebug]

Katie Botkin has a post today that made me gasp in revulsion several times -- as well as gasp twice in admiration:

The first time, that at age 19, Katie had the common sense to wonder why Wilson wanted so many young, adoring teens around him in his wannabe-Oxford don persona;

the second time, that a kirk refugee had the presence of mind to show her new, non-Kirk pastor a dangerous letter/email from the kirk and that the pastor had the ovaries to reply to the kirk in no uncertain terms.

The rest of the gasping, though, was in great dismay. The Wilson cult is entrenched. And doing extreme damage.

Personal recollection. Over 20 years ago, a new friend - intelligent but uneducated, searching for God in Christianity, kind hearted - had found much of what she needed in the Lutheran faith. Knowing I'd grown up in it, she showed me a copy of "Credenda Agenda" magazine by Doug Wilson in Idaho; asked me what I thought of it.

I tried to read it, but like all of Wildon's prose that I've seen since, it was overwritten, convoluted and presumptuous. My friend looked anxious. I said simply, "It's too deep for me" and gave it back. We lost touch. I pray she didn't get sucked into that bunch in any way.

[Marian the Librarian]

Another day, another Doug, another sex scandal - with all the trimmings of cultishness, secrecy, abuse of power, and criminal acts, all in the name of Christianity. Why anyone would ally themselves with this sort of church, and put up with this sort of bullshit, is simply beyond my comprehension.

I hope the awesome Julie Anne (spiritualsoundingboard.com) and the equally awesome Katie Botkin (kbotkin.com) continue to blow the lid off of these stories. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

[Howl]

....and vigilance! As Jon Steward says, "The best defense against bullsh*t is vigilance. If you smell something, say something!"

Hoping Julie Anne had a chance to meet with Katie Botkin while she was in Moscow.

[DomWackTroll]

Wilson on why Christian women are prettier:

Unbelieving women either compete for the attention of men through outlandish messages that communicate some variation of “easy lay,†or in the grip of resentment they give up the endeavor entirely, which is how we get lumberjack dykes. The former is an avid reader of Cosmopolitan and thinks she knows 15K ways to please a man in bed. The latter is just plain surly about the fact that there even are any men.

A commenter agrees:

Years ago, as new Christians engaged in pro-life demonstrations, we were always amazed at how better looking the pro-lifers were than the pro-dismemberment folks.

dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/on-why-christian-women-are-prettier.html

[Howl]

This is the fundie guy fantasy of viewing women in the congregation as MILFs.

Really, Doug is just going for the outrage factor. Tedious, he is.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Wilson on why Christian women are prettier:

A commenter agrees:

dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/on-why-christian-women-are-prettier.html

What a ridiculous dichotomy. As if the only thing unbelieving women could be is whores or dykes. (And I hate that word.) Bizarre. Asinine. Laughable. Ludicrous. I need to consult a thesaurus for more adjectives.

The more I read about him and from him, the more I want to puke.

[love2scrap]

Reading the fb thread discussions between CREC ex and current members led me to draw a curious observation, that these folks have a particular "voice". The same way duggars, jill rodriguez, and other ATI sheeples all speak in similar tone while overusing "sweet", "precious", "blessed", and the same way VF folks have a pretentious tone and penchant for victorian speak... these CREC ilk have a different, almost imperceptible diction peculiar to them. Is anyone else seeing this?

[Howl]

Reading the fb thread discussions between CREC ex and current members led me to draw a curious observation, that these folks have a particular "voice". The same way duggars, jill rodriguez, and other ATI sheeples all speak in similar tone while overusing "sweet", "precious", "blessed", and the same way VF folks have a pretentious tone and penchant for victorian speak... these CREC ilk have a different, almost imperceptible diction peculiar to them. Is anyone else seeing this?

What's the name of the facebook page? I'd like to check this out.

[DomWackTroll]

Reading the fb thread discussions between CREC ex and current members led me to draw a curious observation, that these folks have a particular "voice". The same way duggars, jill rodriguez, and other ATI sheeples all speak in similar tone while overusing "sweet", "precious", "blessed", and the same way VF folks have a pretentious tone and penchant for victorian speak... these CREC ilk have a different, almost imperceptible diction peculiar to them. Is anyone else seeing this?

Yes. It's a weird sort of faux intellectualism. Wilson followers wouldn't be caught dead using the words "sweet," "precious," or "blessed." They are very conscious of the fact that Wilson wants them to be the "anti-VF." Homeschooling, frumpers, and tater tots are just so beneath them and their beautiful minds. The men stroke their hipster beards, sip their fine whiskey, and smoke their American Spirits as they share a chuckle over the silly Reformed Baptists in Texas. The women make sure to dress just immodestly enough so that you'll notice a tattoo or piercing when they ask you, "Do I look oppressed?"

[MamaJunebug]

Oh, DWT, seriously, "American Spirits"? Can they actually be THAT twee?

Grimly chuckling and debating a visit to FB CREC Land...

[hoipolloi]

What's the name of the facebook page? I'd like to check this out.

Not sure if love2scrap is referring to the FB hashtag #healthekirk, but some discussions can be found using that hashtag, including posts by an ex-CREC person (https://www.facebook.com/peter.roise?fref=nf).

[DomWackTroll]

Oh, DWT, seriously, "American Spirits"? Can they actually be THAT twee?

Grimly chuckling and debating a visit to FB CREC Land...

Yes. Yes, they can.

[Marian the Librarian]

I was doing some digging online, trying to learn a bit more about about Doug Wilson - here are a few links to news stories I found.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-07-13-saint-andrews-college-17th-century_n.htm

christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/24.42.html

nytimes.com/2007/09/30/magazine/30Christian-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

From the "Christianity Today" piece:

Several families have moved to Moscow to join Christ Church and enroll their children in Logos or NSA: Francis and Donna Foucachon, for example, moved there from France to enroll their sons in the college. "We came because of our appreciation of this incredible school, and Doug Wilson. What Wilson preaches is closer to continental Presbyterianism than anything else I've seen in America," says Francis, an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church in America who runs a restaurant downtown.

Foucachon was one of the speakers at DPIAT/R's "Biblical Food" (or whatever it was called) conference a few years back. I wonder if there were other path-crossings between the two Dougs.

[love2scrap]

Yes i was referring to Peter Roise posts and all the CREC folk's comments that have that peculiar voice. #healthekirk

[GenerationCedarchip]

I was doing some digging online, trying to learn a bit more about about Doug Wilson - here are a few links to news stories I found.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-07-13-saint-andrews-college-17th-century_n.htm

christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/24.42.html

nytimes.com/2007/09/30/magazine/30Christian-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Foucachon was one of the speakers at DPIAT/R's "Biblical Food" (or whatever it was called) conference a few years back. I wonder if there were other path-crossings between the two Dougs.

From my vantage point, there was definitely crossover. VF used to sell Doug Wilson's books, and there seems to be a fair amount of cross-pollination between VF/reformed types and CREC/reformed types. They don't agree on everything doctrinally (just mention "Federal Vision" and watch the fur fly), but folks from both camps often get along to a degree.

[DomWackTroll]

I was doing some digging online, trying to learn a bit more about about Doug Wilson - here are a few links to news stories I found.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-07-13-saint-andrews-college-17th-century_n.htm

christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/24.42.html

nytimes.com/2007/09/30/magazine/30Christian-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

From the "Christianity Today" piece:

Foucachon was one of the speakers at DPIAT/R's "Biblical Food" (or whatever it was called) conference a few years back. I wonder if there were other path-crossings between the two Dougs.

Oh, yes. Doug and Doug met one time, very briefly, at a fast food restaurant when they were both in the same area (don't remember where). Tool was clearly the one pushing for it and he was all jacked up afterwards, posting a photo of the two on his blog with some caption like, "Can you believe it?!?" I don't think Wilson even acknowledged it in public, but I could be wrong.

Sadly, the photo of the two together is... gone with the wind. :)

[Maxwell]

I was doing some digging online, trying to learn a bit more about about Doug Wilson - here are a few links to news stories I found.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-07-13-saint-andrews-college-17th-century_n.htm

christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/24.42.html

nytimes.com/2007/09/30/magazine/30Christian-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

From the "Christianity Today" piece:

Foucachon was one of the speakers at DPIAT/R's "Biblical Food" (or whatever it was called) conference a few years back. I wonder if there were other path-crossings between the two Dougs.

IIRC, back when the Epstein affair broke, there was also a fellow by the name of Michael Metzler -- a Kirk rabble-rouser -- who was going after DW on his blog (poohsthink.com). There was plenty of cross contamination and somehow, they were tied together with similar (fishy) things happening behind the scenes. DW seemed to come out defending DPIAT/R, Metzler was against both Doug's and at one point Metzler stated that had been convinced that DPIAT/R was falsely accused.... shortly there after his blog/server was hacked and wiped. There are still fleeting references to that time on Metzler's blog but nothing more. I was never sure of exactly what went on there but it sure seemed strange and lead me to think that there was much more to the story. Just searched Metzler's site and found this semi-relevant tidbit:

poohsthink.com/vision-forums-doug-phillips-part-i/

Edited because my original link breakage attempt failed.

[GenerationCedarchip]

ON the Doug and Doug discussion, I also had forgotten this but RC Sproul, Jr. is something of a common thread between these two. He has at various points had ties to both Dougs and for several years was ordained by the CREC.

And in reformed circles - at least reformed Presby circles, it was definitely not uncommon at one time to find folks who read a mix of RC Jr., Doug P and Doug W.

[CyborgKin]

Wilson on why Christian women are prettier:

A commenter agrees:

dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/on-why-christian-women-are-prettier.html

It's been a few years, but I sure don't remember any of the 'unbelieving women' at my university fitting either of those descriptions. Those in the Christian campus fellowship didn't look noticeably different to those outside it. (The same could be said for my female colleagues at my subsequent workplaces.) I do remember one young lady (a friend of a classmate) mentioning in conversation that she was a lesbian, and she didn't seem any less pretty for it, nor what she in any way comparable to a lumberjack. Doug Wilson needs to get his glasses checked, cos whatever they're tinted with, it sure ain't roses! Also, why is he looking around to find which women look like an "easy lay"? I haven't received any such "outlandish messages", though I guess I've never been looking for them. Why is Doug Wilson?

[MamaJunebug]

Happy birthday, Anna S. Botkin!

But it's me/we who are getting the birthday present, in the form of Cousin Katie Botkin's blog post today!

kbotkin.com

The post includes a stunning photo of KB wearing a dress designed and built in the 1940s by her grandmother. [Dr. Evil] Her Marxist grandmother? [/Dr. Evil]

Pay no attention for the moment to the Marxist reference if you're not already aware. Somebody will update you.

For now, go read Katie's blog! Please! Happy blogday to us!!!

[GenerationCedarchip]

Katie Botkin's blog gets more and more interesting every time I read it. She's one of those people I'd love to sit down and grab a coffee with in real life.

Also, love that picture of her in the dress!

[Howl]

Katie Botkin is amazing and simply awesome. Doug flounces around like one of those giant inflatable cartoon figures in the Macy's Christmas Day parade and Katie just pulled the plug on his air supply. He's deflating with a nasty pppfffttttt sound.

She fillets Doug Wilson's word salad with razor-sharp precision.

One of the bright spots in all this is for people to get to know Katie and her writing. She blogs about food, exercise, travel, American Christianity, culture, the outdoors and many other things. She is a fearless international traveler.

Each time I go to her blog and there is a new entry, it is a treat. If there isn't a new entry, I browse the archives.

I must say that these pieces about the CREC and Doug Wilson, especially today's post, are simply off the charts.

[FundieWatcher]

:ew: :ew: :ew:

Perry C. is having his daughters read some anti-feminist blog post from Doug Wilson's daughter. What a fucker to have 8 daughters. Glad Deanne saw through the bull. I wonder if Perry would "let" one of his daughters marry a man like Steve?

:angry-cussingblack:

[Marian the Librarian]

I don't know if this has been discussed anywhere on FJ yet - it looks like some of the women in Doug Wilson's life (wife Nancy, daughters Rachel and Bekah, and daughter in law Heather) have their own blog: feminagirls.com.

Patriarchy, headship, submission; lather, rinse, repeat.