Pedophiles don't change their spots

[chaotic life]

He is a Narcissistic Patriachal prick and his fundie audience laps it up like puppies at a milk bowl and cannot even begin to see how perverted and predatory his entire paradigm IS.

There is no fucking such thing as a "courtship" between a 23 year old man and a 14 year old child. It's NOT a "foolish courtship" but PEDOPHILIA.

[ThisOlGirl]

Doug has responded to the Jezebel story by posting links to videos of Natalie’s husband doing naked “performance art.”

“I told Natalie in an email a while ago that it was not possible to dig up half a corpse. But if you insist, if you demand, if you keep it up, if you finally get your story on Jezebel, the rest of the corpse comes too. So this is where we now are. You wanted the whole story, and we are almost there.”

Nice little threat at the end.  

https://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/109921.html?utm_source=hootsuite

 

 

I didn't read Doug's TL;DR post, but I did click on the links to the "performance art". I'm not sure why he thinks this is so threatening. Obviously Natalie's husband was ok with people seeing this or he wouldn't have put it on Vimeo. So is Doug trying to say that what Natalie's husband did in those videos is just as bad as what Natalie's abuser did to her? I don't understand. Fuck Doug Wilson and his supporters.

[chaotic life]

Yes, DW is claiming Natalie's husband in no better for his performance art as a grown man raping a teen girl.

This REALLY gets into the whole paradigm differences of sex in conservative and especially evangelical Christianity. There's a great blog post that explains it....if I can find it! But basically, mainstream society classifies sex as consensual versus non-consensual. Christianity classifies sex as God-ordained (only within marriage and not all types are even okay even then depending on how you interpret scripture) versus against God's way (which is everything non marriage sex).

Since DW classifies Natalie's grooming and ultimate rape as a "foolish courtship" and NOT as the non-consensual it was, I would guess he considers Natalie's husband's performance art as FAR worse than what was done to Natalie. He would say that Natalie's assailant was attempting to stay within godly boundaries and simply strayed a little off the path. Whereas nudity where anyone can see it is completely outside of marriage and thus sending Natalie's unbelieving husband straight to hell while her rapist is a believer, strayed only a little and can be saved more so than Natalie.

[chaotic life]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/josh-duggar-and-the-tale-of-two-boxes.html

[DomWackTroll]

Daddy’s literary wonderboy, Nate Wilson, shows his concern in the comments:

I've known Natalie's family forever. I know (and like) Wes. He's worked in my home. He's coached my son. I hate seeing Natalie lash out against those who cared and care for her, rejecting a place where she could find true rest. I hate (for many reasons) seeing Wes in something so bent as these videos. I really do hope that God brings them both a glorious and gracious resolution to the turmoil they clearly feel. The Gospel fears no darkness. Grace flinches from no wounds. As public as they have made their troubles, the Holy Spirit can bring them into the body without blemish, without shame. I hope to worship beside them both some day.

https://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/109921.html#comment-2375957842

When will the mainstream media start holding bestselling author Nate accountable? (Hint: never)

[DomWackTroll]

Wesley Peterson on Facebook:

I am both saddened and angered by Doug Wilson's recent use of my performance art without context as a weapon against Natalie, my family, my marriage, and the character of both Natalie and myself. If anyone is actually interested in the context and meaning behind the art pieces of mine Doug posted on his blog, I would be more than happy to explain them to you. I am now and always have been dedicated to loving and protecting my family, and no attacks against us will ever change this!

[Othello]

 

I didn't read Doug's TL;DR post, but I did click on the links to the "performance art". I'm not sure why he thinks this is so threatening. Obviously Natalie's husband was ok with people seeing this or he wouldn't have put it on Vimeo. So is Doug trying to say that what Natalie's husband did in those videos is just as bad as what Natalie's abuser did to her? I don't understand. Fuck Doug Wilson and his supporters.

According to the commenters, it shows how "evil" and "sick, sick, sick" her husband is, and somehow proves that he has "no concept of the difference between appropriate and inappropriate sexuality". But of course—a human in his own skin is clearly evil and sick, and also a human in his own skin is somehow inherently sexual—proof of "inappropriate sexuality", even.

What a coup! Absolute proof that her story cannot be trusted.

[chaotic life]

Absolutely disgusting. It's performance art. There is no SEX in it at all, and as he didn't have anything to do with what happened to his wife in the first place, it has no relevance whatsoever to the story.

As I said, Natalie is far braver than I. DW the snake will go on a no holds barred character assassination of her, her father, and her husband but that evil monster will NEVER admit he was part of the problem and set up the dynamic where a 23 year old justified rape as a "foolish courtship" in the first place.

[onlyme]

He can't comprehend how anyone could be naked and not have it be about sex. Life drawing classes are probably all about sex too. Heck, I bet all art is about sex. 

[onlyme]

 

Wesley Petersen with Natalie Rose Greenfield.

1 hr · 

 

I recently removed my performance art video "Bridge". I want to publicly state that it will be back up soon, and also apologize to all the folks reading Doug Wilson's blog who were probably disappointed at not getting to see a naked body in a performance art piece. I will also be uploading several more of my performance art pieces from my Masters studies at Portland State University. This seems like a great opportunity to capitalize on my newfound exposure thanks to the high volume of traffic I have received after Doug Wilson's blog post about me.

It has also come to my attention that over the last several weeks, members of Christ Church have been using mysterious hashtags on Twitter (‪#‎bridge‬and ‪#‎reveal‬) referencing my art pieces long before they were posted on Doug's blog. Apparently they have a file on me!

‪#‎revealing‬

Apparently they've been plotting to out Wesley Peterson's art for a while. I wonder if the big reveal went like they thought it would. Doug's supporters, of course, are parroting his every word in agreement, but he's getting more criticism around twitter and facebook, as far as I can see. Also, the links to the videos were for an account that looks like it was made expressly for putting up the videos. They really thought they had pay dirt! But they just look like backward bumpkins, not being able to tell the difference between art and porn. 

 

Natalie Greenfield ‏@NatalieGfield  1h1 hour ago

Someone in the CC community has illegally pirated my husband's art videos in order to re-post them if my hubby removed them. Fun stuff!

[nickelodeon]

I've got a link to a totally scandalous, top secret video of Miley Cyrus-- get this-- naked on a wrecking ball and singing! She better never get on my bad side, or I might just have to reveal them to the whole world, and then she'll be ruined, ruined! </dougwilson>

[onlyme]

http://kbotkin.com/2015/11/25/art-and-the-masculine/

Katie on the art smear.

It just really does bug me that he's trying to put it out there that this is porn. The man doesn't even have and erection. If the intent was erotic, wouldn't that kind of be a requirement? 

[Howl]

Excellent Katie B post AND I'd also recommend this excellent post from the Truth in Moscow site, from their A Corruption of Justice Primer series, which pretty much nails everything DW: 

On "digging up evil"

moscowid.net/2015/11/25/on-digging-up-evil/

I'm off to read the other posts in the Corruption of Justice Primer

ETA: 

The person blogging at Cicero Kirk has an excellent post and the thoughtful comments are worth a read as well.  I'd recommend this because it is written by someone who identifies as conservative and Reformed, but sees right through the DW fog machine. 

cicerokirk.wordpress.com/2015/11/25/there-are-lots-of-good-fish-in-the-sea-red-herrings/

Many people are on the same page about this latest  DW Jezehellsbells blog post and see it as blatantly mean and destructive. 

[hoipolloi]

Katie has probably nailed this:

And you know Doug has watched the videos he links to. It’s likely he’s watched them multiple times to make sure he disapproves. 

Doug Wilson is a monster and the people who continue to support him are tools, including his family who should know better but like the money and power that comes with him.

[onlyme]

Doug is making more threats. Obviously they people doing the inquest can't even get him to shut his mouth. The only way they will get him out is by a military coup and he will got down babbling insane theological psycho babble as they drag him off through the war ruins with flames and smoke all around. 

Edited to add Nancy will be crying and desperately pouring scotch down his throat because that's the only way she knows to help. I just had to put in that visual.....  

[SpoonfulOSugar]

One of the things that is really nagging at me about this whole thing is that many of Sitler's victims were apparently very young, so I assume they have not yet achieved their majority.

It appears that many of the families declined or refused to talk to the police back then.  I have to wonder how Wilson's bullshit played into that, and how all of this now is affecting these young children, their families, and future actions against Sitler.  From reading, Idaho allows civil suits once a child hits 18.

Wilson's shenanigans are certainly threatening to other survivors.  He's grotesque.  He should be ashamed of himself.

And he should shut up and stop posting.

[onlyme]

Because Natalie can speak and is doing so quite well, it's easy to forget there are many other victims. Not to mention all the children at Logos school that are being mistreated. 

 

[bea]

I'm still trying to figure out why a grown man's performance art pieces make his wife's testimony of childhood sexual abuse less reliable. Mr. Greenfield was an adult doing publicly available performance art under his own name and shared it on a public platform, so it's not like Doug and Co. discovered A MYSTERIOUS ANONYMOUS HIDDEN VIDEO WITH SINISTER SEXUAL IMPLICATIONS (that seems to be their interpretation it, at any rate). How does the fact that he's done nude performance art in Oregon cast aspersions on his wife's account of abuse in Moscow, ID before they met?

I think this "I'll make you shut up about your childhood abuse and my minimization of it and attempts at shifting blame to your parents and even YOU as a child by any means necessary, including outright lies" tactic is backfiring horribly. The story is spreading past what Doug can control, past people who know who he is or might have ever been impressed by him, passing into secular media where people are looking at how he's behaving and questioning his threats and vague "I know the REAL STORY and Natalie is a lying lier who lies despite the fact that no one, including me, has ever disputed that she was barely an adolescent when this took place and she was not able to consent to anything, legally, but she totally did, and her parents gave permission despite the fact that they deny it, IGNORE THE LEGAL RECORD AND THE LAW AND THE TESTIMONY OF EVERYONE INVOLVED, I'M THE KEEPER OF THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT THIS STORY PROMISE!" bullshit. I mean, I think Doug has been running his cult....uh, "kirk" for so long he's forgotten that outside a small town and a comparatively small fundamentalist group of churches, no one knows who the flying fuck he is, nor do they care. To outsiders, he looks like a child sex abuse apologist and possibly facilitator. Doug really does not seem to understand that the rest of the world does not work the way Moscow, ID does. He's not in charge. He can't tell people what to do or how to think and his vague threats to Natalie make him look like an utter monster. This story popped up on my FB wall the other day, posted by a friend who's a child welfare social worker for the state of IL with no fundie connections or interests at all.

Doug is still flailing under the impression that he's controlling the narrative here, but this story has legs - he looks like a small minded petty tyrant having a tantrum because a woman who was sexually abused as a child has the courage to talk about it. The more threats and comments he makes, the worse it looks for him, and this latest "OMG NAKED PERFORMANCE ART!!1!!" freak out just adds to the image of a backwards freak who peddles prepubescent girls to pedophiles. Hope Doug enjoys having that as his legacy!

[Howl]

Well, exactly.  And when they start digging a little (or even casually looking around) and discover he's a slavery apologist.....but that's how the broader, saner world sees things. 

I don't think any of this will rock his boat in the slightest.  He has his little empire of real estate investments, the publishing arm, the Kirk, New St. Andrews, all of this bringing in money.  Should Grayfriars and New St. Andrews fail, he might be hurting, but if his book on slavery didn't dissuade people from sending their kids there, I don't think the Sitler/Wight scandals will make a dent. 

Southern Slavery, As it Was

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/slavery/southern_slavery_as_it_was.ht

ETA:  One monster civil suit relating to the church and child abuse could set it back and perhaps that is a back story to why DW is putting this particular narrative in the public eye, and the reason for the occasional Boz flogging* .

But seeing how Sitler and Wight are roaming the streets of Moscow and not in prison...  In Idaho, would the losing party in a civil suit be liable for all legal costs of both parties?

DW spends a lot of time nattering on about how quickly the police were informed in the Sitler case, but (idle internet speculation here) I suspect "other things" have happened at the Kirk and parents/victims were urged (pressured) to take care of it "in house" (don't even think of taking this sh*t to the police) and this has created an element of legal vulnerability for the church. 

* Boz Tchividjian has accused the Christian community of acting "contrary" to the gospel in response to cases of abuse. "This sacrifice is most commonly demonstrated through ignoring or marginalizing victims and protecting offenders," he said. Churches should not be safe havens for perpetrators, but rather the place where those who have experienced abuse "feel most safe and most loved."  (from an interview with The Christian Post).

 

[onlyme]

Oh, Howl, I may be a dreamer but I really hope this does something to move him out of power. I have to admit I was in the CREC when Doug went through the whole slavery thing and it barely reached my consciousness. I was, I admit, willfully ignorant. He wasn't my pastor, and without me actively going outside my circle to look it up I didn't have to deal with it. I don't know how many blog posts Doug used to justify it or how long the controversy lasted or even if it caused him any stress or if he gave it all a big ol' pffft and enjoyed the adrenaline high. 

Now I am horrified at what I was so passive about. I am actively trying to support Natalie, (maybe it's my offering of penance.)  and I know she is strong, but this is hard and it would break my heart if it didn't at least register on reducing his little Idaho compound and shutting his mouth. It's my due to society because I think I at least bought a couple of his books and even after I decided he was a big old wind bag when people mentioned him to me I didn't exclaim with horror and ask them to explain to me why they regard anything that man has to say and I didn't go to our pastors and confront them about why they decided to stay in the denomination started by this ass hat. 

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I've been nosing around twitter feeds and such this morning and DW's stance just makes me sick.

I thought of another "voice" in this whole process that has to be - I don't know how to phrase it.

What about Katie Sitler?  She's seeing the blowback from speaking out against the Kirk.  She's in a HORRIBLE position - if she DOES complain about something untoward in her home, the KIRK comes down on her like a ton of bricks.  If she DOES NOT, the state comes down on her (with total justification.)  So does she live in a state of denial and just hope for the best?  I suspect so.

It's an untenable position she is in, and I blame those who counseled and encouraged her prior to the marriage as much as I do anyone.

[Marian the Librarian]

Doug Wilson only *wishes* he looked so good with no clothes on.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Doug WIlson only *wishes* he looked so good with no clothes on.

[Howl]

Oh, Howl, I may be a dreamer but I really hope this does something to move him out of power. I have to admit I was in the CREC when Doug went through the whole slavery thing and it barely reached my consciousness. I was, I admit, willfully ignorant. He wasn't my pastor, and without me actively going outside my circle to look it up I didn't have to deal with it. I don't know how many blog posts Doug used to justify it or how long the controversy lasted or even if it caused him any stress or if he gave it all a big ol' pffft and enjoyed the adrenaline high. 

Now I am horrified at what I was so passive about. I am actively trying to support Natalie, (maybe it's my offering of penance.)  and I know she is strong, but this is hard and it would break my heart if it didn't at least register on reducing his little Idaho compound and shutting his mouth. It's my due to society because I think I at least bought a couple of his books and even after I decided he was a big old wind bag when people mentioned him to me I didn't exclaim with horror and ask them to explain to me why they regard anything that man has to say and I didn't go to our pastors and confront them about why they decided to stay in the denomination started by this ass hat. 

 

I'm so glad you were able to leave and understand the situation with fresh eyes and supporting Natalie is wonderful.  I think it is human nature to ignore things that don't tally with our current beliefs.  I have certainly been afflicted with huge cognitive dissonance at times, or just blatantly ignored the obvious to stay in my comfort zone.  

I don't know what it would take to shake up the Kirk big time, but it would have to be something that destabilizes one of the main pillars holding the whole thing up -- one or more elders defecting, massive embezzlement, law suit(s), something.  Leithart stepped out on a huge limb with his apology to the Greenfields.  I don't see DW as having skeletons in the closets -- no mistresses, no brief affairs (gay or straight), no porn.  Unless he's been embezzling or one of his kids outs him as a child molester, I just don't see how he can be defrocked and run out of town.  On the other hand, if one of his kids goes off reservation or Nancy decides to....well, you know, he might be forced to take a leave, since he's not keeping his house in order.  

 

Doug Wilson only *wishes* he looked so good with no clothes on.

Poor Nancy.     I wonder if she got to watch the performance art videos?     Hmmmm, thinking, thinking.  NO, not too damn likely. 

[hoipolloi]

On the other hand, if one of his kids goes off reservation or Nancy decides to....well, you know, he might be forced to take a leave, since he's not keeping his house in order.  

 

Re: bolded. No, he'll just change the rules to "fix" whatever happened, and his leghumpers won't miss a beat in continuing to worship him.