Pedophiles don't change their spots

[hoipolloi]

What an ass -- still as arrogant and threatening as ever:

Natalie Rose, on the other hand, writes about her abuse with honesty and grace, and with deep compassion for other victims.

Not sure, but I'm starting to think that Katie Botkin attended Christ Church for at least part of her life, so knows Doug Wilson up close.

She said this previously about her divorce (kbotkin.com/2015/05/26/why-josh-duggar-wont-say-victim/); it sounds as though her ex-husband may have been the one with direct ties to the cult:

Patriarchy apologist Doug Wilson has said similar things publicly on numerous occasions, so it’s no surprise that, when dealing with his and three parallel churches that were somehow dragged into my divorce dynamics several years ago, any protestation of injustice on my part was met with a virtual roll of the eyes. I was being hacked and followed and my home was physically breached, to put it mildly. How and by whom was not completely clear. The churches had many of the details, and were passing judgement based on “data†thereby collected. Yet every time I insisted something weird was up, that this was not OK, I was met with some version of: “That’s not important. You need to focus on your sins. If you bring up anyone else’s, it means you’re passing the buck, being unrepentant and acting bitter. And we just can’t have that.â€

[Season of life...]

I have read about Doug Wilson before on FJ, but didn't know where he was based. My husband is from Moscow. I'm going to have to ask him and my in-laws if they are familiar with this man and his church. I feel shaky after reading this thread--how do these people ignore the harm they cause? Seriously, how is someone that devoid of anything good made responsible for the spiritual health of their congregation? Sociopathy, narcissism--I'm not diagnosing--I genuinely don't understand how they have no lines that can't be crossed in order to fuel their egos. Maybe they are just plain evil.

Only kind of related: I recently bought some YA books on sale since they looked kind of fun and Harry Potter-esque. I just learned from Doug's Wikipedia page that the author, N.D. Wilson, is his son. I just wanted a quick read, but I won't be able to read them now without constantly looking for hidden agendas. Maybe the son is different, and I'm being unfair, but my expectations are now low.

[DomWackTroll]

I have read about Doug Wilson before on FJ, but didn't know where he was based. My husband is from Moscow. I'm going to have to ask him and my in-laws if they are familiar with this man and his church. I feel shaky after reading this thread--how do these people ignore the harm they cause? Seriously, how is someone that devoid of anything good made responsible for the spiritual health of their congregation? Sociopathy, narcissism--I'm not diagnosing--I genuinely don't understand how they have no lines that can't be crossed in order to fuel their egos. Maybe they are just plain evil.

Only kind of related: I recently bought some YA books on sale since they looked kind of fun and Harry Potter-esque. I just learned from Doug's Wikipedia page that the author, N.D. Wilson, is his son. I just wanted a quick read, but I won't be able to read them now without constantly looking for hidden agendas. Maybe the son is different, and I'm being unfair, but my expectations are now low.

Different? No. He works at Daddy's New Saint Andrews College.

nsa.edu/academics/faculty/n-d-wilson/

But in interviews with the mainstream media about his books, he does try to downplay the cray; in fact, he often tries to make his parents sound like liberals. Look at his bio on his website: “I was born in 1978 to a couple of Jesus People hippies.â€

ndwilson.com/bio/

It makes me nuts that these lazy reporters never bother to find out who this guy really is.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Doug Wilson said he tried to respond to Katie Botkin's post but couldn't (dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-only-kind-of-gospel-there-is.html#comment-2247558449):

On that post, Wilson says:

The twittermob has been circulating numerous untruths, among them that Steven Sitler is a child rapist. He was actually convicted of one count of Lewd Conduct with a Minor under 16 years of age (Idaho Code 18-1508).

That's a nice obfuscation of the fact that Sitler was actually accused of much much more than the single charge. It's also a lovely way to argue semantics without really acknowledging the heinous nature of Sitler's actions.

He's a cherrypicker among cherry pickers.

[MamaJunebug]

snipped ....Seriously, how is someone that devoid of anything good made responsible for the spiritual health of their congregation? Sociopathy, narcissism--I'm not diagnosing--I genuinely don't understand how they have no lines that can't be crossed in order to fuel their egos. Maybe they are just plain evil.

....snipped....

Diagnose away, AFAIK. If it looks, waddles and quacks like a duck...

Had an epiphany reading your comment. These guys are evil first, Christian later -- not because they are redeemed but because they co-opt the parts of the religion that can support their stinking agendas of harm for their own pleasure.

Does Wilson ever extemporize on Jesus' words of forgiveness? On J's words of revolution against the cravenness among the leaders of His people ? On Paul's words challenging the norms of Roman society?

Oh, NoOoOooooo -- it's all about Doug's little empire of quaintly Scottish-sounding "academies" and "centers" where he can be lionized and listened to.

[Howl]

Oh, NoOoOooooo -- it's all about Doug's little empire of quaintly Scottish-sounding "academies" and "centers" where he can be lionized and listened to.

Yeah, the "kirk" business drives me crazy, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I had forgotten about the Doug Wilson-as-slavery-apologist craziness. Yeah, that.

[Season of life...]

Different? No. He works at Daddy's New Saint Andrews College.

nsa.edu/academics/faculty/n-d-wilson/

But in interviews with the mainstream media about his books, he does try to downplay the cray; in fact, he often tries to make his parents sound like liberals. Look at his bio on his website: “I was born in 1978 to a couple of Jesus People hippies.â€

ndwilson.com/bio/

It makes me nuts that these lazy reporters never bother to find out who this guy really is.

Thank you for the link; I found his bio interesting.

I believe he thought he was coming across as fun and quirky, but it felt rather manic to me. Everything is too perfect. He had an awesome childhood with hippy parents, met and married a California surfer girl and has fathered five "imaginative and jolly" children. His bio sounds like the Christmas letters I receive from a relative--you know the kind: sunshine, unicorns and all their kids, including the four year old, have joined Mensa.

[RosyDaisy]

Hey, Baylys, my ministers are pro choice. Kiss my ass you fundie SOBs!

[refugee]

Doug Wilson said he tried to respond to Katie Botkin's post but couldn't (dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-only-kind-of-gospel-there-is.html#comment-2247558449):

Natalie Rose, the daughter & victim in the letter posted by Katie Botkin, has also written a powerful commentary: natalierose-livewithpassion.blogspot.com/2015/09/when-doug-wrote-to-my-father.html

For a supposedly technically savvy guy, he didn't try very hard. I commented -- looked for a "Reply" button to comment, and noticed that the nesting of replies had a limit, so I "replied" farther up the chain, surmising (correctly! go me) that my reply would appear under the previous replies, as a continuation of a thread of conversation.

So yeah, there was no "reply" button conveniently under her comment. However, he could have replied if he'd taken 20 seconds to look at the way the comments worked on the blog.

[refugee]

Correcting a horrible error in my original post -- corrected with red text above: Jamin Wight is the perpetrator, NOT the victim. Jamin Wight was 24 and the victim was 13 when the grooming and abuse began and she, of course, has not been identified in the Homeschoolers Anonymous post linked above. Same deal, though. Jamin Wight was in Doug Wilson's New Saint Andrews seminary (Grayfriars Hall) and boarding with the family of the victim.

The church/New Saint Andrews/joe-joe jones and his dog Fritzy (made up the last pair of names, just sounded good) never heard of conducting background checks, before boarding their students with families having little children? (ETA: or maybe I should say underage children, since the one girl wasn't "little" at 13, but she certainly merited protection all the same.)

[hoipolloi]

And Katie Botkin keeps on hitting it out of the park (kbotkin.com/2015/09/11/the-wittenburg-door/):

Even if you think that Wilson is in the right in the Sitler/Wight situations, despite more and more people within the church coming forward to voice their concerns to the contrary, do you think that Wilson has never made a pastoral error in the public sphere? That all the name-calling on his blog, all the factual statements he’s made, everything — it’s all above reproach? That Wilson has never done a single thing in the entire course of his ministry that should require him to have said “you know, I was wrong about this, and I’m sorry�

I’ve scoured his blog, his books, personal letters from him and his elders, and I’ve never seen him apologize or admit fault for a single specific thing (other than some general “this was badly worded†or some other waffling non-apology). I’ve asked others to do the same. If, in fact, anyone can point me to a place where Wilson made public apology over something in the past, I’ll be happy to amend this post.

[Emphasis added]

ETA: Over at the baylyblog, the score is 3 Baylys against 1 Wilson: baylyblog.com/blog/2015/09/dealing-sexual-predators-objections-answered

[Dark Matters]

the Wartburg Watch has a terrific quest post on this Sitler/Wilson situation:

thewartburgwatch.com/2015/09/11/doug-wilsons-failure-to-safeguard-children-guest-post/

[Palimpsest]

^^^ excellent article.

Instead of crawling in shame Doug Wilson is threatening members of his church with exposure if they dare to criticize him. That's called blackmail.

[Black Aliss]

^^^ excellent article.

Instead of crawling in shame Doug Wilson is threatening members of his church with exposure if they dare to criticize him. That's called blackmail.

And, of course, I immediately wonder what dirt he has on the other members of his kirk[sic]. Are they pedophiles themselves? Or just Ashley Madison Premium Subscribers?

[Olive Plant]

The victim's dad weighed in. Not much about the scandal but it's interesting backstory, and the man was obviously broken by the experience. joypeacehope.blogspot.in/2015/09/an-open-letter-to-doug-wilson-who-is.html

[nelliebelle1197]

New (?) website with Sitler background & court case(s) information, including the wedding video where Doug Wilson officiates: sitler.moscowid.net/

That blog actually has their whole wedding site on it! I was dying to read that!

[Howl]

I had an epiphany a few days ago and I've been mulling it over every since. The epiphany? That Doug Wilson was suckered in by both Jamin Wight and Steven Sitler. I think both of these guys ran a long con on Doug Wilson and the pay off for each was huge in terms of reduced jail sentences and retained standing in the community and the church.

The first thing that most people say about sexual predators is that they are charming master manipulators. If you read Natalie Rose's blog post, she noted that the family joke was that Jamin could talk his way out of anything. That's right, a graduate student in seminary, and this was one of his outstanding personality traits.

Each man comes to Doug and expresses contrition and REPENTANCE. Huge stroke to Doug's ego. HUGE stroke. Donald Trump huge. They've committed the most vile crimes and they come to Doug for spiritual restoration. DOUG! Doug will restore the souls of the most vile sinners, because Doug can handle it. And Doug, with his enormous ego pushing a flawed theological agenda, was pulled right in.

I'm sure there was a little guilt, a little repentance on the part of Wight and Sitler, but these guys both knew what Doug wanted to hear. The payoff? Jamin Wight, a man who sexually abused a 13-year old and continued the abuse for three years, and went on to mentally and physically abuse his now ex-wife, walks free on the streets of Moscow, Idaho. Steven Sitler gets a wife, sits in the pews of Christ Church every Sunday, goes to college and gets erections while holding his infant son. He drives to counseling and college classes with no ankle monitor.

Steve Sitler should be serving a life sentence. Jamin Wight should still be in prison. Yup, I'm pretty sure each man in his own way conned Doug Wilson into believing they were repentant and restored, and who knows, maybe each believed it himself. Each guy sat with Doug and blew theological sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns right up Doug's a**.

And Doug, who, if he believes anything, believes in himself, ate it right up. And because his personal vanity is an unshakable belief in own BS, and because he believes in himself even more than he believes in Wight and Sitler, writes letters, leverages influence, and bingo! you have predators back on the streets in no time at all.

Sadly, a man not prone to deep introspection, Doug Wilson will never allow himself to consider his part in this tragedy.

[older than allosaurs]

I think you've nailed it. Doug the Tough-Minded is a total softie when it comes to his own powers of discernment and pedagogy. And the ickier the sin, the greater the glory when he can lead someone to repentance, when he can overcome the knee-jerk disgust experienced by lesser intellects and nurture the tender reborn soul within. Hallelujah!

A commenter on Wartburg Watch also pointed out that since they are not allowed the pastor-led miracles of the charismatic churches, sterner Reformed ministers have to count on really juicy redemption stories.

[onlyme]

And, of course, I immediately wonder what dirt he has on the other members of his kirk[sic]. Are they pedophiles themselves? Or just Ashley Madison Premium Subscribers?

If you are referring to the comment he made about the family that he abused after finding out about the abuse of their 13 year old daughter, this is a common tactic of CREC pastors. They at once make the people he's referring to take their attention off him and his behavior and look at themselves wondering what he could have. It makes the people around question the victims, it makes him look "all in the know" which is HUGE in the CREC. Annnd it allows him to take on the persona of the suffering pastor, being attacked by these sinners that know that if he came out with all he know would be mortified and ashamed.... but no, he will hold his tongue and suffer under their abuse and keep his mouth shut for their sake... blah blah blah. Then all his leg humpers will feel sorry for him and tell him they are praying for him and marvel over the idea that those you tried so selflessly to help are the very ones to bite you in the butt.... poor, poor dears.

The daughter did respond in the comments and basically said "you got nothing on us and you know it."

But they do this ALL THE TIME.

[older than allosaurs]

A lively discussion mostly among current and former Christ Church members is happening on a public Facebook. The original posters are friends of Jamin Wight's former wife, who recently has remarried. They discuss in detail why they have decided to speak out about the conduct of the elders in cases involving abuse.

Elders are weighing in to tell them to hush up, but this doesn't seem to be a hushable subject in Moscow any longer.

https://www.facebook.com/peter.roise/po ... 7541674551

Additional public posts are collected under the hashtag #healthekirk

[hoipolloi]

A lively discussion mostly among current and former Christ Church members is happening on a public Facebook. The original posters are friends of Jamin Wight's former wife, who recently has remarried. They discuss in detail why they have decided to speak out about the conduct of the elders in cases involving abuse.

Elders are weighing in to tell them to hush up, but this doesn't seem to be a hushable subject in Moscow any longer.

https://www.facebook.com/peter.roise/po ... 7541674551

Additional public posts are collected under the hashtag #healthekirk

Thanks much for these links. Looks like a long overdue, healthy discussion is finally happening despite the efforts of Wilson & his leghumpers to shut it all down.

The amazing Katie Botkin has also posted more on her dealings with Wilson & his cult during the course of her divorce: kbotkin.com/2015/09/14/a-slice-of-my-own-story/

[hoipolloi]

I had an epiphany a few days ago and I've been mulling it over every since. The epiphany? That Doug Wilson was suckered in by both Jamin Wight and Steven Sitler. I think both of these guys ran a long con on Doug Wilson and the pay off for each was huge in terms of reduced jail sentences and retained standing in the community and the church. ...

The back-and-forth on this FB posting (https://www.facebook.com/peter.roise/po ... 7541674551) supports your theory, Howl.

At least, the public statements of the various CREC "elders" in that discussion indicate a level of delusional & egotistical naiveté that is astounding, assuming they're telling the truth -- and that may be a dangerous assumption.

[older than allosaurs]

And Doug has just posted another long explanation of why it's totally ok that he is being hounded and stoned and lied about so. After all, Jesus went through all that too.

[Palimpsest]

The back-and-forth on this FB posting (https://www.facebook.com/peter.roise/po ... 7541674551) supports your theory, Howl.

At least, the public statements of the various CREC "elders" in that discussion indicate a level of delusional & egotistical naiveté that is astounding, assuming they're telling the truth -- and that may be a dangerous assumption.

A dangerous assumption, indeed. But they may be that delusional,egotistical and naïve. Quoting Howl again ...

Each man comes to Doug and expresses contrition and REPENTANCE. Huge stroke to Doug's ego. HUGE stroke. Donald Trump huge. They've committed the most vile crimes and they come to Doug for spiritual restoration. DOUG! Doug will restore the souls of the most vile sinners, because Doug can handle it. And Doug, with his enormous ego pushing a flawed theological agenda, was pulled right in.

Yes. While manipulative sex offenders might play into Doug's (and other elder's) enormous ego, the level of sheer denial involved here blows my mind. These frigging unqualified and untrained Pastors having the damn hubris to think that they can cope with and rehabilitate serial child rapists? They are part of the problem - if not the root of it. Can't they get it through their thick skulls that sexual offenders self-select into positions and communities that refuse to put safe-guards in place? These people infuriate me beyond words.

Good for Peter Roise. He's attempting to shine a light, at least.

[libriatrix]

I had an epiphany a few days ago and I've been mulling it over every since. The epiphany? That Doug Wilson was suckered in by both Jamin Wight and Steven Sitler. I think both of these guys ran a long con on Doug Wilson and the pay off for each was huge in terms of reduced jail sentences and retained standing in the community and the church.

Ding ding ding ding ding! As a graduate of Moscow, I think this entire post is spot on. I see a lot of people painting Doug Wilson as pure evil or a manipulator himself etc etc.... That's a little over the top to me. I spent four years sitting in his classes and church services and he advised my thesis. From my personal impressions of him -- I never liked him much and did not admire him as much as everyone else did. But his teachings are not pure evil and honestly I still see much of them as sincere. The problem I think is his over-weening pride and arrogance, which is poisoning his entire movement. The true evil is his willingness to let someone tickle his ear. That's what set off the dominoes to result in this execrable behavior by (and to) so many people I know and love.

Yes. While manipulative sex offenders might play into Doug's (and other elder's) enormous ego, the level of sheer denial involved here blows my mind. These frigging unqualified and untrained Pastors having the damn hubris to think that they can cope with and rehabilitate serial child rapists? They are part of the problem - if not the root of it. Can't they get it through their thick skulls that sexual offenders self-select into positions and communities that refuse to put safe-guards in place? These people infuriate me beyond words.

So true. Again, the hubris and arrogance. Also the ignorance which is now being perpetuated -- so many people believing that safeguards against molestation, especially re-offence, don't need to be that stringent.

Additional public posts are collected under the hashtag #healthekirk

This hashtag makes me happy.

Also, one of the #healthekirk posts reproduces a statement from Peter Leithart (pastor of Jamin Wight at the time) which reads in part:

is clear now that I made major errors of judgment. Fundamentally, I misjudged Jamin, badly. I thought he was a godly young man who had fallen into sin. That was wrong. In the course of trying to pastor Jamin through other crises in his life, I came to realize that he is deceptive and highly manipulative, and that I allowed him to manipulate me. A number of the things I said about Jamin to the congregation and court at the time his abuse was uncovered were spun in Jamin's favor; I am ashamed to realize that I used Jamin's talking points. Though I never doubted that Jamin was guilty, I trusted his account of the circumstances more readily and longer than I should have, and conversely I disbelieved the victim’s parents (to the best of my recollection, I had no direct contact with the victim, who was a member of Christ Church). I should have seen through Jamin, and didn't.

As a result, I didn't appreciate how much damage Jamin did and I was naive about the effect that the abuse had on the victim’s family. I recently asked her and her parents to forgive my pastoral failures, which they have done.

- Peter J. Leithart

I am so thrilled to see an actual honest apology. Dr. Leithart was someone I DID personally respect and reading Natalie's blog implicating him in siding with Jamin against her was so saddening. I am very pleased to see him publicly and humbly admit that he was fooled and did wrong.