Joshley Madison: 2 Sex Scandals and Counting

[TheJewAmongUs]

I keep having an image of Michelle, upon finding out about this debacle, marching her 5'2" frame right over to Smugs and slapping him rightly across the face and leaving the room.

Somehow I doubt that's what happened, however, and I'm guessing they had a tearful baby-voice prayer circle.

She's probably thinking of all the time she spent on her back while already pregnant and wondering why Anna couldn't manage it through a mere four pregnancies.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I think Josh should enter an intensive, in-patient type setting to figure out the source of all this self-destructive behavior.

That would hopefully give Anna some time and space to think, plan, evaluate, whatever.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the belief system they are entrenched in will preclude that strategy.

I'm very sad for Anna and for the children. This must be very confusing for the littles.

[hockeymoo]

They took out the statement about his porn addiction. Why did do you guys think they did that?

The snarky side of me says, "Because Josh doesn't 'repent' until he gets caught, and his sex tape hasn't been leaked yet."

But honestly, it's the Duggars, so it's probably some kind of legal reason. Like the word 'addiction' being equated with admitting he needs professional help.

[mfch]

It's the top story on my city's paper's website. I live in Melbourne, Australia. Barely anyone cares about the Duggars. It's a big story. Josh and the whole lot of them by extension have become the public face of the Ashley Madison hack. I can't even process how that makes me feel. ALL THE SCHADENFREUDE.

To be clear, porn is fine and hooking up is fine. I'm a 23 year old woman with an education and I do both. Cheating on your wife- morally not so great but it's legal and between consenting adults.

If I had to pick between having a husband who cheated using AM or a husband who molested his sisters as a teenager, I'd pick the cheater EVERY DAMN TIME.

But Josh. The whole lot. The hypocrisy.

As much as I am feeling awful for Anna. Oh the irony is delicious.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

They took out the statement about his porn addiction. Why did do you guys think they did that?

Because when Josh admitted to a porn addiction he was admitting to something that had not been revealed yet. The only thing that was uncovered in this Ashley Madison info dump was that he paid to use those services, everything else (affairs, dates, hook-ups) are speculation on our part.

Now you might think it is easy enough for people like us to find all three versions of his confession on-line but I think the hard core leg humpers and ATI people will only be reading the Duggar Facebook page to get their news on this. There will be many people who come away from this scandal believing that Josh did something wrong-- was unfaithful to his wife in some way-- but with no real particulars. Jesus forgives all and Josh is repentant so that is all that matters. Plus if Anna stays by his side it can't be too bad, right?

By the way I'm one of those that believes that there is some sex scandal waiting to be uncovered about JB. I know he gives off the personae of a man madly in love with his wife but I think a lot of that is just him manhandling his property because he CAN. Ted Haggard loved to dip his wife and plant big kisses on her while proclaiming that Christian sex is the hottest sex! All the while he was having a homosexual affair. JB has always struck me as a horndog and a creeper. I would not be at all surprised to discover he has a mistress set up somewhere.

[mfch]

I think Josh should enter an intensive, in-patient type setting to figure out the source of all this self-destructive behavior.

Can I just say I disagree.

Yes it's self destructive behaviour. Because of his position in life. But in a lot of ways it is normal and natural behaviour.

If Josh had been given sex ed, allowed to experience healthy and normal social relationships with girls and boys his age and not been taught that pre-marital sex was evil and wrong, I don't think he would have molested his sisters.

If Josh hadn't been forced into marriage and four kids when he was so young and with no sexual experience, to the first girl who came along, I don't think he would have cheated on his wife.

Porn and sex with consenting adults- there is nothing wrong with either of these things. They are normal and so many people watch porn and have sex and have normal and satisfying lives. He doesn't need to go to therapy because of this.

He's sleazy and it's yucky and all of that, but let's be clear, nothing illegal about using AM or watching porn.

[Bgirl]

Because when Josh admitted to a porn addiction he was admitting to something that had not been revealed yet. The only thing that was uncovered in this Ashley Madison info dump was that he paid to use those services, everything else (affairs, dates, hook-ups) are speculation on our part.

Now you might think it is easy enough for people like us to find all three versions of his confession on-line but I think the hard core leg humpers and ATI people will only be reading the Duggar Facebook page to get their news on this. There will be many people who come away from this scandal believing that Josh did something wrong-- was unfaithful to his wife in some way-- but with no real particulars. Jesus forgives all and Josh is repentant so that is all that matters. Plus if Anna stays by his side it can't be too bad, right?

By the way I'm one of those that believes that there is some sex scandal waiting to be uncovered about JB. I know he gives off the personae of a man madly in love with his wife but I think a lot of that is just him manhandling his property because he CAN. Ted Haggard loved to dip his wife and plant big kisses on her while proclaiming that Christian sex is the hottest sex! All the while he was having a homosexual affair. JB has always struck me as a horndog and a creeper. I would not be at all surprised to discover he has a mistress set up somewhere.

Totally agree. JB is a creeper as well. We'll hear about him next.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

What a horrible pig he is.

He had a young, lovely, innocent girl handed to him as a bride. I can't imagine Anna would have ever refused him anything the way she looks at him with those creepily adoring eyes, just the way she was taught. The cheating on the perfectly trained wife feels so much worse than it would if he cheated on a regular woman who swears, yells, doesn't cook regularly, and has the power to refuse his advances. She was taught and raised to worship her husband and take care of him and his home, children, ego, physical needs, etc. What MORE did he want? I guess anyone can make him a sandwich AND anyone else can "minister" to him. Michelle was wrong on that one.

My question to all of you:

I've seen the guidelines on intercourse after childbirth that Gothardites subscribe to. Are they allowed to do the nasty when they're preggo? I'm guessing not because that would be a waste of precious man juice.

Also a personal thank you goes out to Gothard for making self satisfaction a big no-no. I get a little giggle thinking of all the shaved heads we'd see if everyone felt that way.

Why? This reads to me like you're saying that a perfect fundy stepford wife is more worthy of respect and the betrayal to her is greater than it would be for one of us run of the mill regular wives who can swear, yell, sometimes not cook dinner, and are secure in our rights to decide whether and when we have sex.

Maybe I'm biased because I do swear, and I have yelled, and I dont cook nearly as much as my husband (maybe because he's not dickish enough to wait for me to get home from my job where I work much longer hours than he does so I can come home and serve him), and the last thing? I married a man who would sooner cut off his own head than want me to have sex with him out of force or obligation.

I hope you didn't mean it the way I read it, but it has a ring of fetishizing/idolizing the virginal perfect martyred woman which is so common in fundy land and its damaging for both those women inside the system and those of us heathen whores in the world.

[singsingsing]

Can I just say I disagree.

Yes it's self destructive behaviour. Because of his position in life. But in a lot of ways it is normal and natural behaviour.

If Josh had been given sex ed, allowed to experience healthy and normal social relationships with girls and boys his age and not been taught that pre-marital sex was evil and wrong, I don't think he would have molested his sisters.

If Josh hadn't been forced into marriage and four kids when he was so young and with no sexual experience, to the first girl who came along, I don't think he would have cheated on his wife.

Porn and sex with consenting adults- there is nothing wrong with either of these things. They are normal and so many people watch porn and have sex and have normal and satisfying lives. He doesn't need to go to therapy because of this.

He's sleazy and it's yucky and all of that, but let's be clear, nothing illegal about using AM or watching porn.

Well yeah, but that's the whole point - he wasn't given sex ed, he didn't get to experience healthy and normal relationships, he was forced into marriage, and he did molest his pre-pubescent sisters, and he did willfully, recklessly and thoughtlessly deceive his entire family and endanger his wife by having affairs. The guy needs serious help. What exactly that entails is not for me to speculate on, but the fact that he needs help is pretty obvious.

[Jersey girl]

It's sad how proud i am if catching up on this thread and how much I want to hear from some of josh's hookups.

The statement was better than I thought it would be, but it still sucked.

[MrsWorkfromhome]

It's the top story on my city's paper's website. I live in Melbourne, Australia. Barely anyone cares about the Duggars. It's a big story. Josh and the whole lot of them by extension have become the public face of the Ashley Madison hack. I can't even process how that makes me feel. ALL THE SCHADENFREUDE.

To be clear, porn is fine and hooking up is fine. I'm a 23 year old woman with an education and I do both. Cheating on your wife- morally not so great but it's legal and between consenting adults.

If I had to pick between having a husband who cheated using AM or a husband who molested his sisters as a teenager, I'd pick the cheater EVERY DAMN TIME.

But Josh. The whole lot. The hypocrisy.

As much as I am feeling awful for Anna. Oh the irony is delicious.

I agree with everything except the bolded. While technically "legal" it is a complete disrespect for your wedding vows. Unless Anna gave him a green light (which is not probable) his cheating was not done with her consent and put her health, and potentially her children's health at risk.

[7thchild]

Why? This reads to me like you're saying that a perfect fundy stepford wife is more worthy of respect and the betrayal to her is greater than it would be for one of us run of the mill regular wives who can swear, yell, sometimes not cook dinner, and are secure in our rights to decide whether and when we have sex.

Maybe I'm biased because I do swear, and I have yelled, and I dont cook nearly as much as my husband (maybe because he's not dickish enough to wait for me to get home from my job where I work much longer hours than he does so I can come home and serve him), and the last thing? I married a man who would sooner cut off his own head than want me to have sex with him out of force or obligation.

I hope you didn't mean it the way I read it, but it has a ring of fetishizing/idolizing the virginal perfect martyred woman which is so common in fundy land and its damaging for both those women inside the system and those of us heathen whores in the world.

I definitely do not mean to suggest that one woman is of more value than another as a wife or in any other way. I am the wife who cusses, yells, etc. and is admittedly far from perfect. I do not believe my husband would be more justified in cheating on me. Perhaps my frustration has shown through, in not being able to grasp what more the fundy men could want in a woman than one who is trained and groomed to idolize and worship them vs. how they would respond if they had to deal with a woman who was self directed?

[OodOnTheLoo]

Josh was 16 in 2004 (I always know exactly how old Josh was in any given year because we were born in the same year). So he probably got his driver's licence that year, and that's probably why he became an organ donor. Now why he chose to share that on his fake adultery profile is another question, but maybe he just thought it was funny. We all know what a ~fantastic~ sense of humour ol' Joshy has.

Maybe it was code for losing his virginity.

[Fascinated]

Why? This reads to me like you're saying that a perfect fundy stepford wife is more worthy of respect and the betrayal to her is greater than it would be for one of us run of the mill regular wives who can swear, yell, sometimes not cook dinner, and areH secure in our rights to decide whether and when we have sex.

Maybe I'm biased because I do swear, and I have yelled, and I dont cook nearly as much as my husband (maybe because he's not dickish enough to wait for me to get home from my job where I work much longer hours than he does so I can come home and serve him), and the last thing? I married a man who would sooner cut off his own head than want me to have sex with him out of force or obligation.

I hope you didn't mean it the way I read it, but it has a ring of fetishizing/idolizing the virginal perfect martyred woman which is so common in fundy land and its damaging for both those women inside the system and those of us heathen whores in the world.

I don't think that's what 7th child meant at all. I believe she's saying that Anna BELIEVED that if she was the perfect, submissive wife, that her husband would be faithful. This is what she was taught.

[Ilovebrownies]

Er...You mean right wingers who believe that gay marriage is wrong and abortion is a sin and that America should be faith-based and that welfare should be eliminated?

Sorry, but right wingers are the same ones that stood behind the Duggars.

I have every right to clump right wingers together. They are the reason that Gothard even exists.

That's like saying all left wingers are gay.

[MisUndrstd]

They took out the statement about his porn addiction. Why did do you guys think they did that?

This is my summation and theory on why Josh took out the porn addiction part. Someone told Josh (possible PR), that he needed to go ahead and admit it was more than porn addiction. PR told Josh he must for once tell the truth about his actions, if another lie is uncovered it would ruin him even more. . Whoever told him to fess up and come clean it was just in case the hook up woman (or women) comes forward and outs him. A tabloid would pay high dollar right now for the story from a Josh Duggar hook up. It will be less scandalous if a hook up ever comes forward and says "I slept with Joshie", if he tells the truth (for once) now. Trust me, Josh didn't want to admit to it, he was told he must. The original "it was just simple porn addiction" was all a fabricated lie by Josh.. The person who told him to tell the truth is smart because according to what I read about AM, a lot of the women who frequented the site weren't married women but escorts who will do what they have to for a few bucks. Which leads me to wonder if the hacker(s) of Ashley Madison was a fundementalist who was so disgusted by the website that they decided to divulge the people who subscribed there. Wouldn't it be poetic if Josh was ousted by one of his own?

[GodsKnickers]

I forgot about this - ran across it a couple of weeks ago, when helping someone find some secular homeschooling information. Not sure where it should go, so I'll just add it in here. AHEA (Alberta Home Education Assn) invited JB & J'chelle to speak at the 2016 convention. Then Joshgate 1.0 broke - AHEA announced the end of June that they were keeping the speaking engagement with the Duggars. I wonder if they will now reconsider. Somehow, I doubt it.

aheaonline.com/

As announced at our April 2015 convention, the Alberta Home Education Association has invited Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar to be the keynote speakers at our 2016 convention.

The AHEA board today affirms that decision after careful consideration of the facts of the recent controversy concerning one of the Duggar children.

The reasons for the board decision include:

• The controversy surrounding actions taken by Josh Duggar is really "old news". The events happened more than a decade ago and were dealt with legally and morally at that time. AHEA does not condone Josh's behavior but wishes to follow the example of the victims in this situation who have expressed a desire to "forgive and forget".
  The people who are coming to speak are home educating parents, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, and not their son Josh. Since all parents are prone to blaming themselves when their children make a mistake, it is AHEA's hope that Jim Bob and Michelle will share what they learned as parents from these difficult experiences - learning of Josh’s behaviour then and now living through the recent media hysteria.
  AHEA does not choose speakers because they are perfect or nearly so. In fact, AHEA tries to choose speakers who have been through difficult times and learned from them, who have made mistakes in parenting and can share their experiences, who have been "in the trenches" of home education and have persevered. In this way, AHEA chooses speakers for the annual convention who can connect in "real life ways" with AHEA members, who can be open about mistakes made and lessons learned, who can speak of forgiveness. Learning from our mistakes makes a compelling story.

Doing a little digging on there, looks like the Jeubs were supposed to speak at this year's convention but withdrew.

[Buzzard]

[bBvideo 560,340:3rirynvd]

[/bBvideo]

I just cant get this out of my head during all of this

Life is bigger

It's bigger

And you, you are not me

The lengths that I will go to

The distance in your eyes

Oh no, I've said too much

I set it up

That's me in the corner

That's me in the spotlight

Losing my religion

Trying to keep up with you

And I don't know if I can do it

Oh no I've said too much

I haven't said enough

I thought that I heard you laughing

I thought that I heard you sing

I think I thought I saw you try

Every whisper

Of every waking hour

I'm choosing my confessions

Trying to keep an eye on you

Like a hurt lost and blinded fool

Oh no, I've said too much

I set it up

Consider this

The hint of the century

Consider this

The slip that brought me

To my knees failed

What if all these fantasies

Come flailing around

Now I've said too much

I thought that I heard you laughing

I thought that I heard you sing

I think I thought I saw you try

But that was just a dream

That was just a dream

That's me in the corner

That's me in the spotlight

Losing my religion

Trying to keep up with you

And I don't know if I can do it

Oh no I've said too much

I haven't said enough

I thought that I heard you laughing

I thought that I heard you sing

I think I thought I saw you try

But that was just a dream, try, cry, why, try

That was just a dream, just a dream, just a dream

Dream

[vienna]

According to a People source it is as I feard: Of course Gothargs rules still apply and Anna has to ask her selve what SHE did wrong since her husband was not taken good enought care of her so that he had to cheat:

From the latest article in People Magazin:

The source says that from their knowledge of Josh and Anna and the Duggar family, "no way is she leaving him" – adding that it would not come as a surprise if "on some level" Anna tries to "absorb some of the blame."

"Maybe not publicly, ever, but privately, there will be some suggestion of whether or not she should have been more aware of the pressures Josh was under, of the issues he was facing, and how she could have better counseled him or helped him," says the source.

"She is fully and permanently committed to her marriage and her children. And she'll have the support of Jim Bob and Michelle and everyone else in their circle in terms of staying with him and making this work," continues the source. "Divorce is not even something that will be discussed."

[Blueruin]

I'm not see I feel that bad for Anna right now. I would hope shed use this opportunity to run but I'm doubtful. I feel bad for JD, with an older brother like this his parents would have been way harder on him. It's also possible that Josh's actions would give him a crisis of faith or some serious introspection. I'd be messed up if I were judged as being possibly the same way as my older brother by my parents.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Can I just say I disagree.

Yes it's self destructive behaviour. Because of his position in life. But in a lot of ways it is normal and natural behaviour.

If Josh had been given sex ed, allowed to experience healthy and normal social relationships with girls and boys his age and not been taught that pre-marital sex was evil and wrong, I don't think he would have molested his sisters.

If Josh hadn't been forced into marriage and four kids when he was so young and with no sexual experience, to the first girl who came along, I don't think he would have cheated on his wife.

Porn and sex with consenting adults- there is nothing wrong with either of these things. They are normal and so many people watch porn and have sex and have normal and satisfying lives. He doesn't need to go to therapy because of this.

He's sleazy and it's yucky and all of that, but let's be clear, nothing illegal about using AM or watching porn.

Lying to your spouse is a symptom.

Sneaking around and hiding behaviors that you know your family would not approve of is a symptom.

Inappropriate sexual behavior is a symptom.

If he were doing things that were illegal, I'd be advocating for trial and prison. He's doing things that are not healthy, which is why I am advocating for evaluation and treatment.

It's just not a healthy set of behaviors and won't be solved by prayers.

[singsingsing]

I do agree that Josh doing this to Anna is worse than if he were to have done it to a 'regular' woman. I know that sounds bad, but I look at it this way... if I had married a guy and had four kids with him, and then found out he was cheating on me a la Josh, I'd be PISSED. I might also be heartbroken and emotionally devastated, depending on the quality of the relationship at that point. I'd also be scared - what now? Where do I go, what do I do, how do I get past this, how can I protect my children? But ultimately I know I'd be fine. I have the self-worth, confidence and perspective to deal with it. I'd have the support of family and friends and my community. I have money saved, and a university degree, and plenty of work experience.

Anna has none of that. She was brainwashed from birth to be totally subservient to her headship, whether that be her father or her husband. She's been trained to think that a man's sexual sins are a woman's fault. She's not allowed to think independently. Anger or resentment toward her cheating spouse is sinful. She would face shame and scorn from her community were she to leave him. She was purposefully denied the education and life/work experience she would need to make her own way in the world. Her parents and her cult did everything they possibly could to keep her totally dependent on her husband. And Josh knew all of this full well. He knew he was betraying and endangering a woman who was utterly at his mercy.

[twin2]

Totally agree. JB is a creeper as well. We'll hear about him next.

When I first read about this, one of the first things that popped into my head was that anti-drug commercial where the dad finds his son's drug stash and the son is like "I learned it from you dad".

[Eighth-of-eleven]

I definitely do not mean to suggest that one woman is of more value than another as a wife or in any other way. I am the wife who cusses, yells, etc. and is admittedly far from perfect. I do not believe my husband would be more justified in cheating on me. Perhaps my frustration has shown through, in not being able to grasp what more the fundy men could want in a woman than one who is trained and groomed to idolize and worship them vs. how they would respond if they had to deal with a woman who was self directed?

Hi 7th, I'm 8th, :-). I felt that what you just expressed in this post was what you meant.

[formergothardite]

That's like saying all left wingers are gay.

You got to admit that there are A LOT of right wingers who are anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, anti-welfare and go on about how America is a Christian nation. I have met some Republicans who are not against some of those things, but they usually tend to lean towards being libertarian. Bill Gothard does play in politics and he sticks with the Right Wing folks. It also seemed like Josh got a lot of support during the the first scandal from many right wing people.