Joshley Madison: 2 Sex Scandals and Counting

[SassyPants]

No defense from Huckabee or even Santorum. I think the Duggar train has finally crashed, burned, exploded, and buried itself. I would expect Michelle and the girls to return to the TTH shortly to regroup. I also wouldnt be surprised if Jill comes back to the states, bringing Joy with her. They need to plot their next move.

Remember J-O-Y?

Jesus first - remember him, joshie?

Others second - like your "precious"

Yourself last -... .... .....

Maybe Josh thinks its YOJ?

I think both JB and Josh think that the "J" in JOY stands for Jim Bob and Josh

[ladidah]

I guess it depends on the group, but what I've heard before is that it's fine for a woman to remarry if she got a divorce for a Biblically acceptable reason, like adultery. If it's just something like abuse, though, if she wants to leave her husband she will have to always stay single. :roll:

The most common beliefs among fundie (more-conservative-than-most-evangelical) Christians are:

1. Neither men nor women can get divorced biblically.

2. IF a man or woman gets divorced, remarriage is not biblical.

Neither evangelicals nor fundies typically say that the rules are different for the different genders.

Most ATI-related people I know believe in both #1 and #2, although some believe in only #2, while a few go with the more common evangelical belief that divorce and remarriage are OK if the divorce is due to adultery or abandonment.

[hapamama]

Didn't Anna attend some online course for teaching preschool education?

I remember that Anna was always credited for having attended some post home/high school program.

IIRC she has a degree in Christian education from an unaccredited college.

[justoneoftwo]

It's in the bible. Women can't remarry unless their spouse dies. Judging by the fact that they don't eat pork and do arranged marriage, it seems like a rule they'd follow.

Its also in the bible that they can remarry, but not remarry the person they divorced. For the Duggars the real issue is what does Gothord say, I don't believe they really care about the bible at all.

[eye_browz]

Does anyone else feel like maybe Josh wanted to have sex with someone without worrying he was going to knock her up? You know, someone taking birth control and using condoms. I feel like he's so over wanting a ton of kids but Anna is still baby obsessed. Not trying to excuse the creep, just a thought I had.

EDIT to clarify: I absolutely do not blame Anna for this. She is baby crazy because that's how she was raised. I may find that odd but that's literally what she's been told her entire life. I was just saying that perhaps Josh felt like he couldn't tell his wife to just use birth control so he went outside the marriage to get sex without fear of pregnancy yet again. It's still disgusting and that's not a valid excuse, just a thought on what his mindset may have been.

I thought about this too. *If* this is true I hope he can be honest about it with Anna.

[RebelYell]

Wait, what? They don't allow remarriage? Why not? Where are you getting this?

I have to admit that I have not dug into Gothard's beliefs on divorce and remarriage, but in the Mennonites and Independent Fundamental Baptists that I was raised in, remarriage after divorce is a HUGE no-no. You have grounds for divorce for infidelity, but you cannot remarry. Obviously, different groups allow different things. I will admit to merely assuming that most other extreme fundamentalists practiced this as well, including the Duggars. Formergothardite might be able to tell us! Anyone with more direct knowledge of Gothardism want to jump in here?

[NormalBikiniWearingMom]

Can we start a petition to change his name from Duggar to Douchebag?

Anna, honey, if you want to leave him an entire nation of chicks will support you going to school and getting a real education and career. This will make the Faith Penningtons collection look like chump change.

[Idolatry]

It's in the bible. Women can't remarry unless their spouse dies. Judging by the fact that they don't eat pork and do arranged marriage, it seems like a rule they'd follow.

That's not true, at least not in Deuteronomy. You just can't marry your first husband again after the second divorces you, divorce being something men to do women. The real question is how is Josh going to repay the dowry when his bride no longer finds favor in his eyes?

[fairestaussie74]

No matter where you come from most of the regular joe, conservative, main-stream Christian folks or the liberal, alternative thinkers, humanitarian, progressives (or anyone in between) have any idea the damage the religious cult the Duggars are members of (IBLP and ATI) does to a brain, the heart, the soul of a person. If there is any leanings towards narcissism any psychopathic tendencies in a male this sect will groom, water, fertilize and nurture these traits. (Side-note-If there are co-dependent tendencies in any female those will also be nurtured) Many men in the sect do not have these prior traits BUT those who do and who stay with the sect long enough they always seem to choose to molest, to cheat, to hurt, to abuse, to harm, or take advantage of those they should protect, all while railing away of their sects highest moral standards, maintaining complete outward "righteousness". This is what Josh grew up in. Those that came to his defense in the past so readily only saw what JB and Michelle wanted them to see. They would only see their "Christian" Values. There is a TON of disillusionment going on right now!!! The formula of protection/control/insolation is breaking down. Hopefully this will spread the word to those who desire family values to look elsewhere and stay the hell away from IBLP, ATI!!

[lascuba]

I see a lot of people worried about Anna having an STD, well she just had a baby so they test you for that stuff when you're because you have to do blood work. Unless you refuse in some way. As for after the baby was born...has it been 6-8weeks since the baby's been born yet? So hopefully she has nothing to worry about.

Now that I think about it, I don't know if Anna has had normal prenatal care because they don't see doctors when they're pregnant. Huh. Well maybe she does need to see a doctor then.

STD testing is optional and she would have been asked to consent. Considering how many non-religious women I know who refuse testing because, "My husband would NEVER," it's safe to assume that Anna hasn't been tested at all.

[twinmama]

For me personally, this is worse because he is a full grown man who took vows.

I want to believe that people really can change- that they can make mistakes when they are young and change and do something different. He was a creep as a teenager. But I wanted to believe that he could/did change to be a decent husband and father. I believed he was a good husband to Anna.

So that for me is why this seems worse. It's not that it is worse in terms of crime, it is worse because it just so horribly builds on the crime that has already been committed.

So there is no other way around it: He was a creep then, and he is a creep now.

Seriously??? A grown man breaking a promise is worse than a MOLESTER!? I'm no fan of adultery or anything, but there is a reason molesting a child is a crime and adultery really is not (yes, I realize it may be on the books as illegal in some places, but come on).

[quiverfullofgreed]

When I first found that fake Joe Smithson facebook page yesterday it had 8 followers. I just looked at it again and the number of followers has gone up to 44. I just thought that was kind of interesting. I know people are probably following it to see if anything interesting happens. I am interested to see if it gets deleted now that Radar Online has posted about it.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

A quick search turned up this testimony. Sigh.

iblp.org/questions/can-hopeless-marriage-be-restored

[MakeItSo]

I keep catching myself thinking that hopefully Anna grabs the kids and retreats to her parents' home in FL for a while to regroup her thoughts...then I just remembered that they, too, are fundies so not sure how they would feel about her taking a "break" from Smuggar. Any thoughts?

[Idolatry]

Seriously??? A grown man breaking a promise is worse than a MOLESTER!? I'm no fan of adultery or anything, but there is a reason molesting a child is a crime and adultery really is not (yes, I realize it may be on the books as illegal in some places, but come on).

Isn't the vow not to molest children kind of implied with, you know, basic decency to human beings?

[MisUndrstd]

This is really a game changer for the Duggar way of life as they know it. No network in a thousand years will touch their tainted brood. They still have a boat load of children at home they have to provide for and now even some grandchildren and in-laws (Anna and Ben). The only ones who seem financially stable on their own are (maybe) JD and Jill and Derick. What are they going to do now? They can't expect their children to go out in the World with half an education and support themselves. If anything good comes from this I hope they will realize the errors they have made when it comes to educating their children and that they will allow their children to obtain a more main-stream education (including the girls). Now more than ever the Duggar children will have to learn how to support themselves. JB and Michelle won't be able to provide for their way of life much longer without the big TLC, book money and speaking money rolling in. I hope JB and Michelle are using this time in isolation to figure out a way to help their children become independent.

[SassyPants]

I keep catching myself thinking that hopefully Anna grabs the kids and retreats to her parents' home in FL for a while to regroup her thoughts...then I just remembered that they, too, are fundies so not sure how they would feel about her taking a "break" from Smuggar. Any thoughts?

We have not heard one word from the Kellers- not even about the molestation.

[Idolatry]

We have not heard one word from the Kellers- not even about the molestation.

Funny, the Seewalds had a lot to say defending molesting, but not so much now.

[ofDany]

I've been trying to be a good newbie and finish reading before I post, but you all make it hard! So much of what I want to say became irrelevant in a page or two...

I feel bad for the kids because unlike Anna who may or may not have understood the significance of Josh's teenage transgressions before their wedding, the kids had NO choice in their father. Even though they are little now, they will grow up with everyone around them knowing what a schmuck their dad is, and kids can be bullied about things much smaller than this!

[formergothardite]

Its also in the bible that they can remarry, but not remarry the person they divorced. For the Duggars the real issue is what does Gothord say, I don't believe they really care about the bible at all.

It has been some time since I read it all, but Gothard has a whole book teaching divorced people to "rebuild" their marriage. Ideally(at least for him) if neither of the couple have married someone else they should try to remarry the person they divorced.

[princessmahina]

I've been trying to be a good newbie and finish reading before I post, but you all make it hard! So much of what I want to say became irrelevant in a page or two...

I feel bad for the kids because unlike Anna who may or may not have understood the significance of Josh's teenage transgressions before their wedding, the kids had NO choice in their father. Even though they are little now, they will grow up with everyone around them knowing what a schmuck their dad is, and kids can be bullied about things much smaller than this!

If they stay in the cult, I doubt the kids will be bullied much, if at all. God's forgiveness and all that.

[gemma]

We have not heard one word from the Kellers- not even about the molestation.

I'm surprised nothing from anna. As far as her parents, they have to feel devastated. I know her father did not want the marriage, but she pushed it.

[NormalBikiniWearingMom]

I've been trying to be a good newbie and finish reading before I post, but you all make it hard! So much of what I want to say became irrelevant in a page or two...

I feel bad for the kids because unlike Anna who may or may not have understood the significance of Josh's teenage transgressions before their wedding, the kids had NO choice in their father. Even though they are little now, they will grow up with everyone around them knowing what a schmuck their dad is, and kids can be bullied about things much smaller than this!

Not a good newbie here. He's a POS. and this makes you wonder if Jim Bob had adultery issues. Remember Joe Kennedy? Okay, remember reading about Joe Kennedy since I doubt most of us were alive when he was bringing Gloria Swanson over for a screw in front of his young boys?

[justoneoftwo]

I'm surprised nothing from anna. As far as her parents, they have to feel devastated. I know her father did not want the marriage, but she pushed it.

He didn't? I thought he had the right to approve or not?

[luv2laugh]

I wonder why Anna isn't making a statement? Hmmm... What do you all think this means by her not saying anything?

ALSO: EVERY SINGLE TIME the Duggars post a statement, David Waller ALWAYS retweets it from his Davidncil twitter. Silence from his twitter today...