Free Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 2 - Merge

[Tenyari]

yahoo.com/parenting/mom-ignites-a-movement-with-viral-open-letter-to-127646551642.html

has anyone seen this?

[sophrosyne]

On the David loves Priscilla blog, they show a family trip where the Kellers have gone to "support" Anna and Josh.

Ugh--in one of the photos from that trip posted on David Loves Priscilla blog, Pecan Thief and brothers Nathan and David Keller are showing the cameras their ice cream Dove bars, while Josh shows a....cherry.

davidlovespriscilla.com/2015/08/11/visit-with-family/ (see second picture--click on it for a bigger image of Josh's, umm, cherry)

[justoneoftwo]

Just in case anyone is still worried Anna couldn't afford legal help if she wanted to leave, one lawyer has publicly offered his services for free.

thv11.com/story/life/2015/08/27/ark-attorney-offering-pro-bono-legal-representation-for-anna-duggar/32477389/

[Hisey]

It does not mean you give up your right to child support. If Josh only has visitation that is not joint custody. If that were the case she would actually get more child support because the kids would be with her more of the time (it is assumed the parent with custody is primarily paying for the kids while they are in that parent's custody, its part of the calculation). Visitation has no impact on having to pay child support. When the kids are older they do get a say, but it is not final and the courts regularly ignore what the kids say. They would get a lawyer to represent their interests at almost any age but this lawyer does not have to do what they want. It is about what the judge thinks is in their best interest, not what a child thinks is in their best interest.

OK, OK, I put the full custody thing as a question for a reason. Because I wasn't sure. I actually know someone who asked for full custody and gave up her right to child support. I didn't know if that was the norm or not. That's why I used a question mark!

Sorry, but about 10 people acted as though I'd made a misstatement, when I was actually asking a question. (I have gotten things wrong plenty of other times, tho!)

[watchdog]

At least with like Madeline, the spelling Madelyn does represent a common pronunciation of the name.

But I've only heard Mackenzie pronounced ma-KEN-zee or mi-KEN-zee. Never ma-KIN-zee, as Mackynzie would suggest. But maybe that's just how they pronounce Mackenzie in their area? Like how Ben becomes Bin?

Meredith seems like such a weird name choice to pair with Mackynzie. I thought they'd go with something else trendy like Madisyn.

Well, I think we now know why that one didn't make the cut. :?

[Trynn]

Yeah, before the scandal came to light I really thought, would've put money on, them naming the kid Madison (with Michelle as an extremely close second.)

Now I'm glad they didn't.

[Cactus]

Yeah, before the scandal came to light I really thought, would've put money on, them naming the kid Madison (with Michelle as an extremely close second.)

Now I'm glad they didn't.

Part of me wonders whether this name was suggested by Anna / another family member and Josh shot it down.

[usedbicycle]

When you think of it, it's so incredibly sad is that Anna is dependent on the Duggars right now and relying on them for money, emotional support, and help with the kids. She should be able to curse out Josh's name, but instead she's stuck with his blood relatives around all the time.

To me, it says a lot about her parents that she would rather be with the family of her abuser than with her own. I'm sure part of the reason she married Josh so quick was to get out of their sordid trailer. Of course, she could have been with her brother but remember he is shunned. She believes deep down that he is evil and that the outside world isn't "safe". It's so ironic...

[withaj]

Part of me wonders whether this name was suggested by Anna / another family member and Josh shot it down.

I think the odds are very high that this is the case. Maybe it never was discussed seriously -- but you just KNOW it had to have been in the mix for girls names, if not this time around than with Mackynzie. What two M-names are more similar in trendiness and usage than Mackenzie and Madison (and variations)?

[DarkAnts]

I hope Anna's siblings on the outside are asking police to do wellness checks. Anna is in a toxic situation.

[Mama Mia]

OK, OK, I put the full custody thing as a question for a reason. Because I wasn't sure. I actually know someone who asked for full custody and gave up her right to child support. I didn't know if that was the norm or not. That's why I used a question mark!

Sorry, but about 10 people acted as though I'd made a misstatement, when I was actually asking a question. (I have gotten things wrong plenty of other times, tho!)

I think you made some excellent points. And you did frame the child custody v child support as a question.

Here is a definition of joint custody from an on- line dictionary that seems very understandable. Different jurisdictions, and even different judges, will interpret the " best interest" question of how much time children should spend with each parent very differently - but this seems like a pretty common base:

"joint custody

n. in divorce actions, a decision by the court (often upon agreement of the parents) that the parents will share custody of a child. There are two types of custody, physical and legal. Joint physical custody (instead of one parent having custody with the other having visitation, does not mean exact division of time with each parent, but can be based on reasonable time with each parent either specifically spelled out (certain days, weeks, holidays, alternative periods) or based on stated guidelines and shared payment of costs of raising the child. Joint legal custody means that both parents can make decisions for the child, including medical treatment, but where possible they should consult the other. Upon the death or disability of either parent, legal custody will go to the remaining parent and will give the active parent the sole ability to act as parent for the child without further order of the court. The primary affect of this is a psychological benefit for the parent and the child, so that a child can be told that both parents cared for the child, even though the child had to live most of the time with one of them. (See: divorce, custody)".

Many of the parents I know who are no longer together go for a 50 / 50 split, even with very young children. The challenge of course can be if the baby is breastfeeding it can be difficult. And with kids under 2 or 3 the parents I know tend to go more every other day, instead of every other week .

This doesn't work for all families, of course, but I don't think it's that uncommon. The same with no child support paid by either parent. That's also fairly common if the kids time is split basically equally. The equal division of everything seems to go much more smoothly if the parents get along reasonably well, of course.

I think the idea that Anna would have get full custody is very doubtful. Josh is acting like a complete jerk and has had affairs -- that's hardly some earth shatteringly unusual situation when parent split up -- generally someone is being a jerk, or having an affair, or they are having horrible fights, or there is some other big drama ----or they would still be together instead of determining custody.

Even the Duggar's weird beliefs hardly seem bizarre enough to have an impact on custody. I kind of doubt that believing in corporeal punishment in the Bible Belt, in a state that still beats children in public school, is going to be a big red flag. The initial scandal could cause a side eye, but nothing criminal was ever charged. And, most importantly, both Josh AND Anna share the same beliefs - so she couldn't use that belief system against him.

To the poster who thinks there should be a police wellness check on Anna -- really? Based on what? Having a crappy, cheating husband and getting help from her in- laws?

[DarkAnts]

To the poster who thinks there should be a police wellness check on Anna -- really? Based on what? Having a crappy, cheating husband and getting help from her in- laws?

You can ask the police to do a wellness check for ANY reason. It would send the message to Anna that there are people out there who care about her and want to make sure she is safe. It may be the only way her siblings can get that message to her now that Jim Bob and Michelle have started to control every aspect of her life including who contacts her.

[Hisey]

Do you really think that's a good use of police time? Should wellness checks be used to "send a message" to grown women who are living with people you don't approve of? Anna has a phone, a car, she is healthy and of reasonable intelligence. I can't see why she'd need police to "send her a message" in this cryptic way.

Plus, I suspect the police have better things to do. There's plenty of domestic violence, drug use and child maltreatment to deal with in NWA. I'd rather the police focus on that.

[DarkAnts]

Do you really think that's a good use of police time? Should wellness checks be used to "send a message" to grown women who are living with people you don't approve of? Anna has a phone, a car, she is healthy and of reasonable intelligence. I can't see why she'd need police to "send her a message" in this cryptic way.

Plus, I suspect the police have better things to do. There's plenty of domestic violence, drug use and child maltreatment to deal with in NWA. I'd rather the police focus on that.

The police departments provide all kinds of services. Some are not crime related. These services include jumpstarting a car with a dead battery, helping people who locked their keys in their car, performing wellness checks exc.

If I were Anna's siblings I would be worried about her and her children's wellbeing. She grew up in this cult and probably thinks she has no other choice. Her in laws are reinforcing this.

I don't care if some of my tax dollars go towards public services beyond crime. It's silly to think that's the only job police focus on. Many enjoy helping the public in positive ways. It gives them a break from all the bad shit they have to deal with.

P.s your profile name suits you

[Maggie Mae]

The police departments provide all kinds of services. Some are not crime related. These services include jumpstarting a car with a dead battery, helping people who locked their keys in their car, performing wellness checks exc.

If I were Anna's siblings I would be worried about her and her children's wellbeing. She grew up in this cult and probably thinks she has no other choice. Her in laws are reinforcing this.

I don't care if some of my tax dollars go towards public services beyond crime. It's silly to think that's the only job police focus on. Many enjoy helping the public in positive ways. It gives them a break from all the bad shit they have to deal with.

P.s your profile name suits you

Where do you live that police do all that? If I called the police because I locked my keys in the car, I think that I would hear laughing, as they hung up.

[Sundaymorning]

I'm not so sure if making "wellness checks" should be a police task. But seriously, I'd rather would have my tax dollars spent on them checking on people in order to help them, instead of them arresting people because they smoked a joint.

[singsingsing]

I don't see the point of a 'wellness check'? Unless someone has concrete information that Anna and her children are currently being abused or are otherwise in danger (or a danger to themselves or others). I'm pretty sure if the police showed up at her house she wouldn't let them in, and would just end up feeling more certain that the world is conspiring against her and persecuting her and her children. Not really the best use of police resources, in my opinion...

[DarkAnts]

Where do you live that police do all that? If I called the police because I locked my keys in the car, I think that I would hear laughing, as they hung up.

Most police in the U.S. will unlock your car or give it a jump start. They carry standard equipment in their cars to preform these public services. You may have to wait a while if the officers are responding to an emergency.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news ... /index.htm

I have onstar so I have not had to ask them to unlock my car but I did get a jumpstart in Utah a few years ago.

[Whipple]

You make a good point singsingsing! As a school professional, I ask the police to make welfare checks often and it is part of their job. Still if the person refuses to open the door, there is no way the officers are going to get anywhere. I worry about the police showing up with all of the paparazzi around. Not a good combo.

[fiery redhead]

Do you really think that's a good use of police time? Should wellness checks be used to "send a message" to grown women who are living with people you don't approve of? Anna has a phone, a car, she is healthy and of reasonable intelligence. I can't see why she'd need police to "send her a message" in this cryptic way.

Plus, I suspect the police have better things to do. There's plenty of domestic violence, drug use and child maltreatment to deal with in NWA. I'd rather the police focus on that.

What do you think a wellness check means? The police may not find out about the situations you listed unless they do a wellness check. They save lives. And Anna may not be as independent as you assume. Her husband is high profile and is in a controlling family. Her parents are no better support. She may be of "reasonable intelligence" but that does not mean anything in situations like these. She could be being manipulated and threatened. She is sorrounded by people who are on the side of her sicko husband.

[Maggie Mae]

Most police in the U.S. will unlock your car or give it a jump start. They carry standard equipment in their cars to preform these public services. You may have to wait a while if the officers are responding to an emergency.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news ... /index.htm

I have onstar so I have not had to ask them to unlock my car but I did get a jumpstart in Utah a few years ago.

I don't trust the police. And I doubt they have time in my community. We don't have community policing. We have about 14 police on the road at any given time. In a city of 350,000. They are really good at shooting unarmed people though.

Not that it matters anyway. Once people are arrested, if they are young and pretty and have connections/money the courts will let them off of just about anything.

[Idolatry]

You make a good point singsingsing! As a school professional, I ask the police to make welfare checks often and it is part of their job. Still if the person refuses to open the door, there is no way the officers are going to get anywhere. I worry about the police showing up with all of the paparazzi around. Not a good combo.

What paparazzi? The only papz shots I've ever seen of the Duggars were from DCA, a major public airport. I've never never seen any Arkansas paparazzi shots of them. With a story this big, you'd think someone was staking out the loveshack Joshley bought, but I guess not?

[nastyhobbitses]

When you think of it, it's so incredibly sad is that Anna is dependent on the Duggars right now and relying on them for money, emotional support, and help with the kids. She should be able to curse out Josh's name, but instead she's stuck with his blood relatives around all the time.

To me, it says a lot about her parents that she would rather be with the family of her abuser than with her own. I'm sure part of the reason she married Josh so quick was to get out of their sordid trailer. Of course, she could have been with her brother but remember he is shunned. She believes deep down that he is evil and that the outside world isn't "safe". It's so ironic...

Mike Keller and Jim Bob Duggar remind me so much of Frollo from Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame. Isolating their charges from the outside world and telling them that it's for their own good, holding ridiculously paradoxical, hypocritical views about sexuality, and spending all their time condemning others while not noticing their own sinful, corrupt, abusive natures. I really want Anna to stand up and say "All my life, you've taught me that the world is a dark, cruel place...but the only thing dark and cruel about it is people like you!"

[HarryPotterFan]

Mike Keller and Jim Bob Duggar remind me so much of Frollo from Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame. Isolating their charges from the outside world and telling them that it's for their own good, holding ridiculously paradoxical, hypocritical views about sexuality, and spending all their time condemning others while not noticing their own sinful, corrupt, abusive natures. I really want Anna to stand up and say "All my life, you've taught me that the world is a dark, cruel place...but the only thing dark and cruel about it is people like you!"

That's an astoundingly perfect metaphor.

[nike!fashion]

Most police in the U.S. will unlock your car or give it a jump start. They carry standard equipment in their cars to preform these public services. You may have to wait a while if the officers are responding to an emergency.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news ... /index.htm

I have onstar so I have not had to ask them to unlock my car but I did get a jumpstart in Utah a few years ago.

I tried calling the police for help when I locked my keys in the car once. They informed me that they will not help unless it is for a life saving type of situation such as a baby, pet, or certain medications being locked in the car (and only without which there would be fatal or extremely detrimental consequences). They said they could help by radio-ing (not sure how to spell that word/ is it even a word?) for a locksmith or tow truck, but that they could not, or rather would not, help.

I also think that any type of check by police like that to Anna, would not come across as the slightest bit helpful to her. I would be furious if someone did that to me. The only message I can imagine that sending to her is that of betrayal by the person who called the police because they were not happy with the choices she is making regarding her marriage. Yes, we all know it's not truly any choice at all, but it is her marriage and unless there was evidence of physical abuse, I do not think that type of reaction is warranted.

It is a shame that no one can get through to her the reality of the cult she's living in, along with its damaging effects. That realization will have to come from her alone. Some people do leave this cult, and hopefully she will one day be one of them. Hopefully they all do, the Duggars, Kellers, Bates, and every single other member of this horrible, dangerous group (and I especially hope they do not succeed in making their beliefs our laws). Until or unless that day ever comes, she will not be leaving Josh. Not while she is still following those beliefs. It's so sad....as ever growing numbers of their children are forced and brainwashed into this lifestyle.