Free Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 2 - Merge

[HerNameIsBuffy]

This is like that marry, merry, and Mary thing. I've been fascinated since I first learned a few years ago that for some they aren'to pronounced exactly the same.

[YourGodIsNotMine]

It's definitely a regional/Southern thing. Reminds me of this book I read a book a long time ago that took place in a high school- the way the city kids made fun of the poor country kids was to hold up a pen and make them say what it was. If it came out like "pin", you were a bumpkin and uncool.

I'm from South Florida- to me, pen and pin are very distinguishable from each other. Likewise, Mackynzie and Mackenzie aren't the same name to me.

Anna is also from Florida. She shouldn't sound like a native Arkansas person. (Arkansan? Arkansanian?)

[Georgiana]

Anna is also from Florida. She shouldn't sound like a native Arkansas person. (Arkansan? Arkansanian?)

That might depend on what she was exposed to. If MOST of her outside the home socialization was done with ATI folks (many of whom are midwestern/Southern), she could have picked up some language habits from them.

Same for her parents. Pin/Pen are said differently in my area, however, my mother is from St Louis, so I pronounce them the same. My friends tease me because I always say the "short i" sound as a "short e" (so I say "melk", "pellow", etc.)

[Rachel333]

The pen-pin merger is common in Florida: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonologi ... pen_merger

[lookinggoodforjesus]

With pin and pen it is not just a completely different vowel, but the length of the vowel is different. I wish I could upload a clip of me saying "pin" and "pen" because man they sound different here! We just pronounce other things strangely...

[JenniferJuniper]

With pin and pen it is not just a completely different vowel, but the length of the vowel is different. I wish I could upload a clip of me saying "pin" and "pen" because man they sound different here! We just pronounce other things strangely...

You'd never confuse a pin with a pen in New England either.

Or a ten with a tin. Or a hen or a hin. If there was such a word as hin.

[Cleopatra7]

[search][/search]

With pin and pen it is not just a completely different vowel, but the length of the vowel is different. I wish I could upload a clip of me saying "pin" and "pen" because man they sound different here! We just pronounce other things strangely...

I've lived in the South my whole life and never really considered myself to have much of an accent (I don't even use y'all) and I can't distinguish between pin and pen. It's funny to realize that you have an accent when you never thought you had one.

[ClaraOswin]

I always wondered...the people who SAY pen/pin (Ben/Bin) the same....do they always HEAR it the same when someone else says it? Like, I say pen and pin quite differently. Would pin/pin people hear it the same or differently?

[ClaraOswin]

When I say the name Ben, the BE part sounds the same as the word 'better.' Does a 'Bin' person say "bitter" instead of "better?"

[VineHeart137]

That might depend on what she was exposed to. If MOST of her outside the home socialization was done with ATI folks (many of whom are midwestern/Southern), she could have picked up some language habits from them.

Same for her parents. Pin/Pen are said differently in my area, however, my mother is from St Louis, so I pronounce them the same. My friends tease me because I always say the "short i" sound as a "short e" (so I say "melk", "pellow", etc.)

It can also depend on what part of Florida she's from. In my experience, South Florida looks and sounds vastly different from North Florida. The further north you go, the more "country" it gets. I'm from Miami, the population is mostly from the Carribbean.

Where is Anna from?

[VineHeart137]

I know what series you're talking about!

Haha we must have similar taste in books. My username comes from the Pottermore website- Big fan here. :)

[Rachel333]

For those of you who don't have the pen/pin merger, do the vowels in "fern," "fir," and "fur" sound different? Supposedly just about all English speakers except Scottish people pronounce those alike.

For me it's hard to imagine those sounding different, which is what it was like when I first realized not everyone says "pen" and "pin" the same.

[MichellesCrunchyHair]

It can also depend on what part of Florida she's from. In my experience, South Florida looks and sounds vastly different from North Florida. The further north you go, the more "country" it gets. I'm from Miami, the population is mostly from the Carribbean.

Where is Anna from?

All I've heard is that she was born in "South Florida", but then her family relocated to Gainesville when she was 3.

[DowntownAbbey]

I always wondered...the people who SAY pen/pin (Ben/Bin) the same....do they always HEAR it the same when someone else says it? Like, I say pen and pin quite differently. Would pin/pin people hear it the same or differently?

I think it's sound. I know I am physically forming the words differently in my mouth, but Bin and Ben sound the same. I've never heard them pronounced in different ways.

I think we may also be biased to not hearing when people say some words differently than us. I never realized that I pronounced oil as 'oawl' and that almost every other person I knew didn't pronounce it that way until a middle aged man made fun of me when I was 15/16. (Still kinda bitter about that...)

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

This is like that marry, merry, and Mary thing. I've been fascinated since I first learned a few years ago that for some they aren'to pronounced exactly the same.

I pronounce merry differently (but only in a slight way), but Mary and marry are the same to me.

I've heard that people pronounce Aaron and Erin differently. To me, they're both pronounced the same.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Anna is also from Florida. She shouldn't sound like a native Arkansas person. (Arkansan? Arkansanian?)

I grew up in Florida and ended up with a very strong Southern accent because I had neighbors from Alabama and South Carolina, and I spent most of my time at their homes. When my family moved back to CA, my 5th grade teacher saw fit to "train me out of such a stupid way of speaking," so I lost most of my accent by the end of my first term. After a week with a family from London, I had started picking a posh London accent.

My point is that she's been living in Arkansas for years. Everyone she was around for years had an Arkansan accent. I'd have been more surprised if she hadn't learned it within a year of living there.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

For those of you who don't have the pen/pin merger, do the vowels in "fern," "fir," and "fur" sound different? Supposedly just about all English speakers except Scottish people pronounce those alike.

For me it's hard to imagine those sounding different, which is what it was like when I first realized not everyone says "pen" and "pin" the same.

Yes and no. They're very similar, but the length of the vowel is different. Fern is longer than fir, and fur is longer than both.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think it's sound. I know I am physically forming the words differently in my mouth, but Bin and Ben sound the same. I've never heard them pronounced in different ways.

I think we may also be biased to not hearing when people say some words differently than us. I never realized that I pronounced oil as 'oawl' and that almost every other person I knew didn't pronounce it that way until a middle aged man made fun of me when I was 15/16. (Still kinda bitter about that...)

For me, I never noticed that my sister and I pronounced saw as "sawl" or forward as "foward" until our friends started making fun of me for it. We still say foward all the time and fluctuate between sawl and saw.

[missegeno]

I think it's sound. I know I am physically forming the words differently in my mouth, but Bin and Ben sound the same. I've never heard them pronounced in different ways.

I think we may also be biased to not hearing when people say some words differently than us. I never realized that I pronounced oil as 'oawl' and that almost every other person I knew didn't pronounce it that way until a middle aged man made fun of me when I was 15/16. (Still kinda bitter about that...)

We really are biased in what we hear. Plenty of research has shown that infants can detect sounds used in every language and more, but if they aren't exposed to those sounds, the ability to hear them gets lost quite early. There may be a clear difference between two words when somebody says them to you, but you won't be able to hear the difference if it uses a sound you never heard as a baby.

[Imrlgoddess]

If I really wanted to get crazy with it..I'd go full blown levee Cajun....pin and pen would end up sounding more like "pan"... "mais chere, han' me dat pan right dere, I got to write sum'tin..."

I love hearing the differences in the dialects. I forget the Duggars are from Arkansas until I hear one of the kids speak. Ben has a pretty fierce Arkansas accent, it is almost identical to N. Louisiana. At the corners, in what is known here as the Ark-La-Tex, everyone sounds almost the same. But you spread out to the neighboring counties and parishes the accents begin to vary ever so slightly. I've seen so many posts online of folks who will type the word "our" as "are" because that's how it comes out of their mouths when they speak. "they're coming to are house for dinner"

[Imrlgoddess]

I think it's sound. I know I am physically forming the words differently in my mouth, but Bin and Ben sound the same. I've never heard them pronounced in different ways.

I think we may also be biased to not hearing when people say some words differently than us. I never realized that I pronounced oil as 'oawl' and that almost every other person I knew didn't pronounce it that way until a middle aged man made fun of me when I was 15/16. (Still kinda bitter about that...)

My ex used to correct me all the time about how I pronounce "oil". He'd tell me, "there's an I in there ya know".

[DowntownAbbey]

My ex used to correct me all the time about how I pronounce "oil". He'd tell me, "there's an I in there ya know".

From that experience, I'm now self-conscious about saying words like oil and foil so most of the time I "correct" myself and say it without the accent.

It was pure torture in one of my college classes when I had to lead a discussion on oil and the Middle East which is the topic I chose.

[Rachel333]

We really are biased in what we hear. Plenty of research has shown that infants can detect sounds used in every language and more, but if they aren't exposed to those sounds, the ability to hear them gets lost quite early. There may be a clear difference between two words when somebody says them to you, but you won't be able to hear the difference if it uses a sound you never heard as a baby.

Ugh, yes. I've tried really hard and have never really been able to tell the difference between ш and щ in Russian, for example. It's easy if you've grown up hearing Russian, but really hard if you haven't. I can listen to people explain it, like this girl...

...and I'll think I've got it, but then when it comes to distinguishing them in regular conversation or producing the sounds myself, I am totally lost.

The vowels in pen/pin used to be like that for me; I couldn't even hear the difference when other people used them. I can hear it and say it now, though, since I've made an effort to be able to do so. Unlike щ, the "e" in "pen" is a sound I use in other words ("red" and "rid" are completely different to me, for example, so I can imagine hearing someone saying "red" as "rid" might be like when others hear people saying "Ben" as "Bin"), so it wasn't too hard to learn.

[missegeno]

Ugh, yes. I've tried really hard and have never really been able to tell the difference between ш and щ in Russian, for example. It's easy if you've grown up hearing Russian, but really hard if you haven't. I can listen to people explain it, like this girl...

...and I'll think I've got it, but then when it comes to distinguishing them in regular conversation or producing the sounds myself, I am totally lost.

The vowels in pen/pin used to be like that for me; I couldn't even hear the difference when other people used them. I can hear it and say it now, though, since I've made an effort to be able to do so. Unlike щ, the "e" in "pen" is a sound I use in other words ("red" and "rid" are completely different to me, for example, so I can imagine hearing someone saying "red" as "rid" might be like when others hear people saying "Ben" as "Bin"), so it wasn't too hard to learn.

Totally! And there are sounds in some African languages that most native English speakers actually lack the ability to hear the difference in. The infant brain is very use-it-or-lose-it and will straight up re purpose the unused sound receptors. So sounds that are close to our own, we can focus on and here it. But when it comes to differentiating one click from another, we're sol unless we were exposed in our first years. Probably not this extreme with the Ben/Bin deal, but fascinating nonetheless.

This is also the one thing that I think is good about Jill taking izzy to all these countries. His language abilities at a neural level will far exceed my own!

[missegeno]

Er, *hear it

Autocorrect made it wrong, and now it bugs me but it's not letting me edit right now. Sorry.