Free Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 2 - Merge

[Whipple]

That's a real smile Anna is wearing. I wonder if it's a slight relief not to be a walking advertising for QF anymore, gazing up at Josh and pretending to be so happy and perfect.

[Jennifer Hart]

I can't imagine being wronged by a man and the only support system around is his family. I hoped Anna would go to her siblings but sadly, it looks like she's attached to the Duggars.

[ClaraOswin]

A lot of people have made comments about how poor Anna was probably forced to go to the wedding. But I don't know...maybe she welcomed the distraction.

[jqlgoblue]

Clara, could be the case. I also think regardless of whatever control JB and J'chelle have over Anna, she probably felt it best to go. Her kid was in the wedding and was likely excited, it would have been more traumatic for the kids to stay home while the rest of the family got to go. To your point, its a good diversion even if she wasn't excited.

My bet, she looked upset in the first photos b/c she was upset the paps were there. Maybe by the end she loosened up a bit and had some fun (usually happens, even if you didn't want to go in the first place).

[2manyKidzzz]

Anna just needs to get out and change her scenery. Realize that life will go on, as it is doing, and that she can actually enjoy herself, which is good for her health. Just because Joshley is an idiot, doesn't mean she can't start enjoying some things.

[MatthewDuggar]

Anna just needs to get out and change her scenery. Realize that life will go on, as it is doing, and that she can actually enjoy herself, which is good for her health. Just because Joshley is an idiot, doesn't mean she can't start enjoying some things.

ITA plus she's got support, albeit Duggar support, at least it's something. I'd be more concerned if she was shut-up in the house all day crying and depressed.

[ADoyle90815]

Clara, could be the case. I also think regardless of whatever control JB and J'chelle have over Anna, she probably felt it best to go. Her kid was in the wedding and was likely excited, it would have been more traumatic for the kids to stay home while the rest of the family got to go. To your point, its a good diversion even if she wasn't excited.

My bet, she looked upset in the first photos b/c she was upset the paps were there. Maybe by the end she loosened up a bit and had some fun (usually happens, even if you didn't want to go in the first place).

That's what I think, that she was upset at first because his parents were there, but as the event went on, she relaxed and was able to have fun. At least it was a brief diversion, and that she was able to go without Joshley.

[imokit]

ITA plus she's got support, albeit Duggar support, at least it's something. I'd be more concerned if she was shut-up in the house all day crying and depressed.

I agree. I also don't think that the Duggars are defending Josh that hard. Yes, they may be very strongly encouraging Anna to stay in her marriage, and looking in at the marriage and putting some level of blame on her. But that's a cultural thing, and its unlikely her parents, or Priscilla would be doing anything different. If anything the Duggars may be more supportive of her then them. They know that Josh has issues, that he had them before he'd even heard of Anna's existence. He tricked them into thinking his issues were sorted, but as soon as it came out they hadn't they sent him straight off for miserable punitive re-education.

Consider the Pearls - if a man strays/abuses/does anything bad, its due to lack of wifely submission. If the Duggars were taking that approach, Josh wouldn't have been sent away. Jessa & fAMY wouldn't have been allowed to say bad things about him to the press (There's no way Jessa would have risked the loss of money by doing it without permission or at least thinking she'd get away with it). Their actions show that JB & M do blame Josh far more than Anna, and considering the fundie circles they and her family run in, she may have more room to be angry at him then at the Duggar house.

Also she has more support there. Her parents won't help with childcare to the extent the Duggar girls can. Priscilla has young children, so going there wouldn't ease childcare.

Instead she stays at/near the Duggars. Instant play mates & distractions for her kids (Mack is old enough to be asking questions, having Jordyn and Josie to play with, means a large distraction for her, and ongoing routine). Plus older girls to help with childcare. I'm not saying Anna is passing her kids off, but 4 under 6 is tough. Anyone would help. Just having a single new born puts many people in hibernation for a while.

Of Anna's options, Anna's parents, Priscilla (only Fundy sister in the States), and the Duggars - it may be that practically and emotionally the Duggars are the best for her!

[refugee]

This is how Anna is going to handel her situation: Like in "The war room", the movie Dereick´s mum took the Dillarsd to lately.

The straight to the point critisism by the Guardian:

“Is your husband a self-centered jerk? Does he ignore your needs, pay no attention to your adorable daughter, scold you for giving financial help to your troubled sister? Does he have a wandering eye and come dangerously close to committing adultery? Is he embezzling from his job? Well, you should know that it’s all your fault. When you find his behavior upsetting and take him to task you are only protracting the struggle. What you need to do is surrender, go in the closet and pray.â€

Anna is probably already sitting in her war room Infos from: http://www.inquisitr.com/2396366/jill-d ... lems-away/

I have this recurring daymare of Anna being forced to sit through the War Room movie over and over.

[MoonFace]

Anyone know if Joshie-poo made it to mandatory church today with hisconcentration camp rehab buddies?

[Whipple]

I wonder if Anna isn't getting some relief from Josh's day-to-day cruelty toward her...

I think Josh, like his father, is a pathological narcissist. IMO, Josh is not as good as JB at covering up his contempt for his wife. I think he has in his mind devalued and discarded her and has no use for her. If he came off as barely being able to tolerate her on camera, how was he when the cameras were turned off? Her self-esteem has been whittled down to nothing I am sure. Another big reason that she should leave him. Anna has the sympathy of the whole world right now. I wonder if she knows that?

The courting system, as they practice it, is doomed to fail. The couple never knows each other well enough or long enough to expose character flaws. Anyone with a personality disorder can cover it up for three months or so. After that time, large cracks begin to form. My first adult relationship boyfriend did this and my family fell in love with him too. He was perfect. If I had been courting him and married him, I would have been screwed for life. In my case, I just gave away a piece of my heart only to find myself stronger and wiser later on. Just sharing my story because I think it relates slightly to Anna's. Any person with low self-esteem who grows up in an abusive home is vulnerable to this.

Link to article I found on narcissism: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal90.html

Doesn't that sound like our Smuggar?

[Four is Enough]

Link to article I found on narcissism: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal90.html

Doesn't that sound like our Smuggar?

I watched the first two minutes. BINGO! Saving the rest for later. It sounds very interesting.

[Catholic and NOT 'ebil']

Dr. Phil just discussed Joshie on 'The View.' Basically said just what we have all said...1. There is a lot more that will come out regarding his 'behavior,' 2. Help needs to come from OUTSIDE of their 'church,' and 3. When someone says 'she feels she could have x,y,z, it's a huge red flag and a wake up call should happen. Dr. Phil isn't a fave of mine but I couldn't agree with him more on this subject.

[EmCatlyn]

I wonder if Anna isn't getting some relief from Josh's day-to-day cruelty toward her...

I think Josh, like his father, is a pathological narcissist. IMO, Josh is not as good as JB at covering up his contempt for his wife. I think he has in his mind devalued and discarded her and has no use for her. If he came off as barely being able to tolerate her on camera, how was he when the cameras were turned off? Her self-esteem has been whittled down to nothing I am sure. Another big reason that she should leave him. Anna has the sympathy of the whole world right now. I wonder if she knows that?

The courting system, as they practice it, is doomed to fail. The couple never knows each other well enough or long enough to expose character flaws. Anyone with a personality disorder can cover it up for three months or so. After that time, large cracks begin to form. My first adult relationship boyfriend did this and my family fell in love with him too. He was perfect. If I had been courting him and married him, I would have been screwed for life. In my case, I just gave away a piece of my heart only to find myself stronger and wiser later on. Just sharing my story because I think it relates slightly to Anna's. Any person with low self-esteem who grows up in an abusive home is vulnerable to this.

Link to article I found on narcissism: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal90.html

Doesn't that sound like our Smuggar?

I agree with everything above except that Jim Bob feels contempt for Michelle. I think he genuinely values her. He thinks she is attractive and a wonderful helpmeet. Insofar as he can care for anyone/anything outside himself, she is it.

One thing about narcissists is that they will sometimes fixate on another person (or ideal) and see them as part of themselves. I think this is the case with JimBob. He doesn't respect Michelle because his world view insists on the inferiority of women. And I believe he has largely brainwashed Michelle into the baby-making, soft voiced automaton that we see. But he values her.

As for Josh and Anna, I agree completely. He has never valued her or seen her as anything other than his ticket to adulthood, independence from parents and "approved" sex. Now he may see her as a burden, connect her with the adult responsibility he doesn't want to accept.

[Gimme a Free RV]

I think Josh, like his father, is a pathological narcissist. IMO, Josh is not

This.

I've been married to one and am the daughter of one. God help Anna recover from the agony of being a narcissist's wife. BTW, it's been my experience that a narcissist won't readily admit fault or show remorse. If Anna decides to stay with Josh, she'll need amazing strength and self-esteem.

[Extreme Grifting]

[devoe364]

Anna to me, is a victim and the Mkids are victims as well. The sad thing is that if she doesn't leave, she's raising the next generation. The fact is she doesn't know anything different. Leaving Josh, the mere thought of it is probably so terrifying to her that I wouldn't blame her for not leaving.

Change is hard and its scary and all Anna knows about divorced women is that they are sinners and they are not good Christian women. She likely doesn't know anyone who is divorced, and I highly doubt that she has contact with the members of her family that have left ATI.

The Duggars are doing a very good job of sheltering her and keeping her from speaking to or hearing the news from what I can tell. I doubt she has access to the internet, and if she does, I doubt she has time for it - not with 4 kids under 6.

I also firmly believe that Josh only married her to have sex. I think he would have married anyone to have sex at that point, because I agree with the poster earlier who said Smuggar is that kind of party boy that you still see at the bar at 35 trying to pick up 19 year olds. If he hadn't been raised to believe that sex is so shameful and sinful (except in marriage where you can have all the bland, Fundie approved sex you want - as long as there is no BC used) he would have been that horndog that everyone knows and has to tolerate for short periods of time.

I don't think he ever loved Anna, because I think he is a narcissist. I would agree with Emmalynn _ JBoob is fixated on Michelle and he does love her - as much as he can love anyone that isn't him. I would go so far as to say that part of why Jill is the favoured sister is because in JBoob's eyes she has turned out exactly how he PICTURED his daughters, so he showers her with affection.

Anna was a means to an end for Josh. Once he was out of the house and had unlimited internet access he gained access to a world that showed him there was more to sex than Fundie Approved Sex and he wanted it. He couldn't ask Anna for it, because she'd be horrified so he looked elsewhere.

Now, she's trapped with the Mkids because even with the offered supports, the unknown is still really, really scary.

[luv2laugh]

Unfortunately, I think Josh is going to leave Anna in a couple of years. There's no end to his kind of behavior. I hope she can emotionally prepare herself for it. Anna was only a means to an end and a way to escape JB & Michelle. He's had a taste of "the world" and there's no going back now. He is one of those guys that are happier as unmarried bachelors.

[EmCatlyn]

Unfortunately, I think Josh is going to leave Anna in a couple of years. There's no end to his kind of behavior. I hope she can emotionally prepare herself for it. Anna was only a means to an end and a way to escape JB & Michelle. He's had a taste of "the world" and there's no going back now. He is one of those guys that are happier as unmarried bachelors.

I would say "fortunately" rather than "unfortunately."

Yeah, it would hurt her terribly, but in the long run it will be the best for both of them. If he leaves she won't have to have more kids with a man who doesn't love her and is not a good provider. She would have to grow beyond the female dependency that has been encouraged in her. She might even reach out to her siblings outside fundiedom for help and get out of Gothard. It might save the m kids.

If Josh stays he will still womanize; he will still treat her like dirt; he will not have any consideration for her and not appreciate her efforts to please. He will put her at risk of VD and he will get her pregnant at least once more. She will be blamed by him for being the good fundie wife and she may always have her in laws telling her what to do. Painful as divorce would be, afterwards she could heal and find herself.

Josh leaving would be the best thing that could happen to her, since she cannot make herself leave.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm more afraid of Josh hurting children than womanizing.

[JenniferJuniper]

Unfortunately, I think Josh is going to leave Anna in a couple of years. There's no end to his kind of behavior. I hope she can emotionally prepare herself for it. Anna was only a means to an end and a way to escape JB & Michelle. He's had a taste of "the world" and there's no going back now. He is one of those guys that are happier as unmarried bachelors.

The sooner he leaves her the better. Because I agree; it's inevitable that he'll return to his bad behavior and it will be far worse is she buys his pleas, and apologies and promises only to find out another M-kid or two later, oops, he's done it again. She won't leave him. He'll have to do it.

[devoe364]

I would say "fortunately" rather than "unfortunately."

Yeah, it would hurt her terribly, but in the long run it will be the best for both of them. If he leaves she won't have to have more kids with a man who doesn't love her and is not a good provider. She would have to grow beyond the female dependency that has been encouraged in her. She might even reach out to her siblings outside fundiedom for help and get out of Gothard. It might save the m kids.

If Josh stays he will still womanize; he will still treat her like dirt; he will not have any consideration for her and not appreciate her efforts to please. He will put her at risk of VD and he will get her pregnant at least once more. She will be blamed by him for being the good fundie wife and she may always have her in laws telling her what to do. Painful as divorce would be, afterwards she could heal and find herself.

Josh leaving would be the best thing that could happen to her, since she cannot make herself leave.

Emmalynn - you hit the nail on the head. He will have to leave her.

Unfortunately I doubt he will divorce her.

Narcissists are all about power and control. If josh divorces Anna, he no longer has control. I can see him leaving her, abandoning her, but not divorcing her.

[Jennifer Hart]

I can't see Josh wanting to stay in Arkansas under Jim Bob's control again. He had a taste of freedom and enjoyed being away from the family. He's going to be miserable going back to that stifled life and might take things out on Anna.

[EmCatlyn]

Unfortunately I doubt he will divorce her.

Narcissists are all about power and control. If josh divorces Anna, he no longer has control. I can see him leaving her, abandoning her, but not divorcing her.

Narcissists are about what makes them feel good. If he sees an advantage to divorce, he will divorce her. If he does not, he won't.

He will do what makes him feel important and special. I could see him leaving her for another woman and giving interviews about how he has finally found himself and this new woman understands him. Or I could see him separating but keeping the option of returning when it suits him. I could also see him staying with her and keeping up appearances until he gets publicly caught again.

All the possibilities are sad for Anna and the kids.

[devoe364]

Very true, all of the possibilities for Anna and the Mkids are pretty sad. :( I pray that someday she is able to gather her strength for her children and leave.