Josh Duggar, Admitted Child Molester - Part 9

[Buzzard]

I confess, it was me! I've been shaking my bits with the Police Department, the CPS, the liberal media, EVERYONE! We've been in, we've been out and THAT'S what its all about

I think its absolutely awesome at just how many popular culture references Jessa managed to mangle in a single sentence. It just shows how ridiculous their education is.

Hokey Pokey

Hocus Pokus

Hanky Panky

They are NOT the same thing!

[Buzzard]

Add to the the vast majority of rational sensitive people!

Tell her to email one of the mods. I'm sure they can sort out whatever technical issues she's having.

[halcionne]

Tell her to email one of the mods. I'm sure they can sort out whatever technical issues she's having.

I will pass these messages on. I told her to email Curious or happy atheist, and I gave Curious a heads up, too. We'll see what happens. In the meantime, I explained to her that since she and I communicate via private Facebook messages, FJ rules forbid me to c/p anything she says. Also I'm not great at paraphrasing. Her FB & IG are public, though, and she was getting ugly comments on them. I asked her if she and her family feel like they're in danger and she said no, then I remembered they live in Houston, not Springdale.

[skulduggery]

Parading them constantly is going to give them a platform to claim persecution and try to rebuild their fan base.

Oh, you mean like TLC paraded them around for year after year, giving them a platform to claim persecution the moment they were outed by the media?

Yeah, that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

[skulduggery]

RE: Josh's curiosity and unconventional discipline are to blame for his molesting his sisters.

Nope. Most boys who are curious about girls look at pornography, but don't end up molesting their own sisters. If memory serves correctly, according to the original poster (Alice) who tried to blow the whistle, Josh was disciplined first for looking at pornography, then later for touching his sisters. Being that most of what Alice has said has turned out to be correct about everything else, I don't see it as a leap of logic to presume she is probably telling the truth about this as well. So, if Josh looked at pornography, it should have satisfied any normal curiosity teenage boys tend to have.

Also, shame didn't stop Josh's behavior from escalating to younger and younger girls. A sense of shame didn't stop Josh from suing DHS or making an incest joke on national television.

So, why would a teenage boy take the leap from just looking at pornography to violating the rights of his sisters? There's a lot of issues to be examined, but IMO the biggest one is that Josh grew up in an environment where women and girls aren't really people, they are property first of their father, then of their husband, and exist to satisfy their husband's sexual urges. Mullet herself told her own daughters to be sexually available to their husbands at all times. Then there is the very bizarre coincidence that Josh got a stern talking to from a cop later busted of child pornography who also happened to be a friend of JimBob's, and IMO that should be fully investigated.

Any discussion about this should never take away from the fact that women and girls are people, not mannequins. We don't exist for men and boys to explore their "curiosity" on. We have a right to not be touched without giving explicit consent. No, it's not okay for teenage boys to take out their personal issues on us or use us to act out whatever problems they are having. No, it's not okay.

[Cochise]

That's an interesting and important point. As I wrote above, I think that a lot of what might have been appealing was feeling "I have power over this girl. She's my inferior." Maybe, for some really sick boys, that extends to "I can touch her wherever I want, whether or not she's awake, whether or not she likes it, and if she doesn't like it and I just go ahead and do it anyhow, that shows that in this household I have power over her and she has to do what I want."

I wasn't raised Mormon but happened to have a lot of Mormon friends when I was growing up. Mormon boys, at least back then, became "elders" in the Church at the grand old age of about 12, and that sometimes went to their heads in a big, big way. If there was any sexual abuse I didn't know about it, but I remember boys telling their sisters and in one case one boy's mother that females have to do what elders want, they're inferior, blah blah blah. It was pretty sickening. I can see that if the Duggars follow a "men are superior, women are nothing" system, Number 1 Son might get the idea that one way of getting what he wanted and showing his supposed "superiority" would be to make the girls do whatever he wanted.

If a boy is raised with the knowledge that his mother and the other married women in the church are supposed to acquiesce any time the husband wants sex, you'd get some very fucked up ideas about whether ANY female had the right to refuse sex, being touched intimately . . .

They make me sick. Michelle has her part of the blame too, walking around as if merely being pregnant somehow exalted and sanctified her. In the nineteenth century, before birth control methods were reliable, women sometimes had just as many children, but nobody thought that made them special or admirable or good mothers. Instead they were seen as unlucky, and their husbands might be considered selfish to keep going at them when the mothers were progressively more exhausted and likely to die from pregnancy after pregnancy. They often ended up charity cases. Getting a woman pregnant isn't such a wonderful, miraculous accomplishment that it makes Jim Bob Duggar some sort of superman. He happened to have a wife who was obsessed with pregnancy and wangled a way to get out of doing anything much with the kids, because she passed the babies on to her older daughters. As far as I can see, that just means that Jim Bob and Michelle were selfish--not particularly good, not great Christians, certainly not superior. How superior are they going to feel if the show is canceled and the older kids have to get work to survive financially? If they're gone all day or move out, and Michelle and Jim Bob have to act like parents??? They might start thinking "maybe those last 15 weren't such a good idea."

[SoHiDaisy]

They might start thinking "maybe those last 15 weren't such a good idea."

Oh. Well, that will never happen. Michelle's probably trying to get knocked up now. Its probably very logical to them to have another child. Give people something else to focus on and hopefully forget all about this pesky little molestation thing.

[SassyPants]

Oh. Well, that will never happen. Michelle's probably trying to get knocked up now. Its probably very logical to them to have another child. Give people something else to focus on and hopefully forget all about this pesky little molestation thing.

You know what's really gross, JB and M never stopped procreating during all of this- Instead of getting Josh and the girls real help, they just made more kids. These 2 are insane.

Justin 11/2002

Jackson 5/2004...conceived soon after Josh's return from house building therapy.

Johan 10/2005

Jen 8/2007....so in Dec 06 when the state came knocking with some questions, JB and M conceived yet another child.

[Cochise]

And I'm not sure they're even unnaturally fertile compared to the rest of us. It's just that most sexually active hetero couples have used some form of birth control, even if it's just pulling out or abstinence. I think most people figure that if you're going to have that many kids you've got to be alert to the health problems and complications the woman might have, the statistical likelihood that one or more child might have serious physical problems, and an iron-clad source of money. It's looking like their main source of money just dried up. Didn't expect that, did they?

[jersharocks]

And I'm not sure they're even unnaturally fertile compared to the rest of us. It's just that most sexually active hetero couples have used some form of birth control, even if it's just pulling out or abstinence. I think most people figure that if you're going to have that many kids you've got to be alert to the health problems and complications the woman might have, the statistical likelihood that one or more child might have serious physical problems, and an iron-clad source of money. It's looking like their main source of money just dried up. Didn't expect that, did they?

I don't think it's unnatural fertility or lack of birth control. I read somewhere that you only have a 25% chance of getting pregnant each month and that's in your 20s, it naturally declines with age. I would bet that Michelle tracks her cycles and has sex on her fertile days to try and get pregnant. I mean, JB is horny as all get out, all she has to do is show some leg, right? :ew:

At her age, her fertility is naturally declining, thank goodness, but before she could get pregnant much easier just by keeping track of her cycles. I do the opposite, I keep track of my cycles/ovulation so that I won't get pregnant, haha.

[ShepherdontheRock]

You know what's really gross, JB and M never stopped procreating during all of this- Instead of getting Josh and the girls real help, they just made more kids. These 2 are insane.

Justin 11/2002

Jackson 5/2004...conceived soon after Josh's return from house building therapy.

Johan 10/2005

Jen 8/2007....so in Dec 06 when the state came knocking with some questions, JB and M conceived yet another child.

[SoHiDaisy]

These people are more preoccupied with sex than the freaking heathens.

[ILoveJellybeans]

And I'm not sure they're even unnaturally fertile compared to the rest of us. It's just that most sexually active hetero couples have used some form of birth control, even if it's just pulling out or abstinence. I think most people figure that if you're going to have that many kids you've got to be alert to the health problems and complications the woman might have, the statistical likelihood that one or more child might have serious physical problems, and an iron-clad source of money. It's looking like their main source of money just dried up. Didn't expect that, did they?

I think Michelle does have unnatural fertility. Look at her age gaps between kids compared to the average fundie family, who is more like Anna, in having a baby about every 2 years.

Josh >22 months >Jana and JD >16 months > Jill >18 months >Jessa > 13 months >Jinger >13 months >Joseph > 19 months > Josiah > 14 months > Joy > 14 months > Jed and Jer > 16 months > Jason > 15 months > James > 17 months > Justin > 18 months > Jackson > 17 months > Johannah > 22 months > Jennifer > 16 months > Jordyn > 11 months 3 weeks > Josie

She has never had a gap of over 2 years, she usually conceives when her babies are not even one yet. An age gap of 15 months means she conceived when her last kid was 6 months old! With Jinger and Joseph, she conceived when the last baby was 4 months! That's practically a newborn!

Only a few fundies have a chance of getting as far as 19, or have an age gap that small. Even though they don't use birth control, the average fundie family is more like 10 than 19. Most people could never get to 19 kids even if they tried, as the human body just isn't cut out for reproduction on that scale.

There could be more people like Michelle out there though, but they don't know they have superfertility because they use birth control. And even more who find out that they are super fertile when they get pregnant when their baby is 6 months old, then decide that they definitely will not be doing that again.

[Arrowoftruth]

I took the peepee holder comment as in when you really have to go you hold your legs together to keep the pee in

[Rescinded and Mended]

So I wasn't sure where to put this, but I got the latest issue of InTouch magazine this week. There's really nothing new in it that hasn't already been covered here on Free Jinger (mostly it talks about how the Duggar parents could have gone to jail for protecting Josh as long as they did without getting help from the police and other licensed therapists).

But the article does say that the Duggar family is now being represented by lawyer Kevin A. Crass of Little Rock, Arkansas-based firm Eldredge & Clarke.

Apologies if that was posted elsewhere.

[halcionne]

So I wasn't sure where to put this, but I got the latest issue of InTouch magazine this week. There's really nothing new in it that hasn't already been covered here on Free Jinger (mostly it talks about how the Duggar parents could have gone to jail for protecting Josh as long as they did without getting help from the police and other licensed therapists).

But the article does say that the Duggar family is now being represented by lawyer Kevin A. Crass of Little Rock, Arkansas-based firm Eldredge & Clarke.

Apologies if that was posted elsewhere.

But but but that's a business lawyer.

fridayfirm.com/friday_attorney/kevin-a-crass/

[SassyPants]

So I wasn't sure where to put this, but I got the latest issue of InTouch magazine this week. There's really nothing new in it that hasn't already been covered here on Free Jinger (mostly it talks about how the Duggar parents could have gone to jail for protecting Josh as long as they did without getting help from the police and other licensed therapists).

But the article does say that the Duggar family is now being represented by lawyer Kevin A. Crass of Little Rock, Arkansas-based firm Eldredge & Clarke.

Apologies if that was posted elsewhere.

From the reports from Dec 2006, it looks like JB attempted to lawyer up, but 2 attorneys declined. Does anyone know if the Duggars ever secured representation in 2006-07?

[SassyPants]

But but but that's a business lawyer.

http://fridayfirm.com/friday_attorney/kevin-a-crass/

From the website:

He focuses his practice on significant, complex business litigation in federal and state courts including the defense of claims involving class actions, securities fraud, ERISA, business torts, trade secrets, patent and trademark infringement, products liability, environmental and toxic torts, and breach of contract, among others. Kevin also provides clients with representation before governmental bodies and counsels them in regulatory matters.

[Rescinded and Mended]

But but but that's a business lawyer.

fridayfirm.com/friday_attorney/kevin-a-crass/

Hmm, that's interesting. Says on their business page that the firm has been associated with Huckabee's interests in the past. Wonder why they are lawyering up now? Is something about to hit the fan regarding Jim Bob's business holdings?

[halcionne]

So Crass and my buddy Gallagher both graduated from Ouachita Baptist University (many years apart). Do any FJers have thoughts about this school or why Huckabee/Duggar associates studied there?

[halcionne]

From the website:

He focuses his practice on significant, complex business litigation in federal and state courts including the defense of claims involving class actions, securities fraud, ERISA, business torts, trade secrets, patent and trademark infringement, products liability, environmental and toxic torts, and breach of contract, among others. Kevin also provides clients with representation before governmental bodies and counsels them in regulatory matters.

very interesting

[justoneoftwo]

very interesting

I find the most interesting part is the before governmental bodies, wouldn't that mean administrative hearings and before governmental bodies such as dcfs?

[halcionne]

I find the most interesting part is the before governmental bodies, wouldn't that mean administrative hearings and before governmental bodies such as dcfs?

I think a family lawyer would make more sense for that, no?

[justoneoftwo]

I think a family lawyer would make more sense for that, no?

Well I'm not from AR, but where I am family law is different from administrative law, and when I worked with parents dealing with DCFS (in a different state) most family law attorneys were not used to the rules of the administrative hearings, so thats why I asked.

[Cochise]

JB may be lawyering up in hopes of saving the show if TLC wants to cancel because the Duggars broke a morals clause. I believe that's how TLC ditched the Honey Boo Boo show: Honey Boo Boo's mom started hanging out with a man who had been convicted of molesting another of the mom's daughters, HBB spent time with them, HBB was the same age as the other daughter was when she was molested, you'd think a mother would have the sense enough to keep the ex-con from Boo Boo, but she didn't, and lied about it . . . you could cut the immorality with a knife. End of show.

I don't know if the family got any money for episodes that weren't aired, but I believe that a lawyer couldn't really say "Immorality? What immorality?" He or she may have been hired when the Boo Boos realized their ship had sailed and were just trying to recoup as much money as possible.

If JB's lawyer is working for him rather than helping Josh he probably is doing something similar: either arguing that JB and Michelle haven't broken a morals clause, or arguing that Josh was immoral, yes, but that the rest of them are pure and moral as peach cobbler. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that a lawyer might have trouble making that case. The molestation happened before they started filming, right? If TLC was looking for an uplifting show about a religious family they may have asked if anyone in the family was guilty of a felony. Why, heavens no! In fact they're all paragons of virtue! No naughtiness or hanky-panky here!

If TLC argues that JB misrepresented the family because JB knew that Josh had committed repeated instances of incest and that JB covered it up till the statute had run out, the lawyer might have trouble making a case. At this point the lawyer may just be trying to find out exactly what happened when and whether JB and Josh and Michelle and the victims are reliable and don't contradict the police records. A lawyer might do that before deciding whether he has a hope in hell of winning the case. If he feels he doesn't and he's a good lawyer, he'll say so. If his client loses the client will have to pay all the costs. We've seen before that the Duggars tried to hire lawyers and couldn't find ones to represent them. Who knows what will happen next? The lawyer may decline because he doesn't think he can make a case or because he can't see how his client will pay him if he loses. "We covered up the incestuous molestation of children, one as young as five, because we handled it in-house till it was clear that didn't work, then he did construction and got his head shaved, problem solved!" isn't going to sound like "No immorality here, folks!" to a lawyer or judge, I'd guess.