Josie had seizure for 15 mins before EMT arrive- People Mag

[antwan]

Watching the repeat episode right now. Question about the decorating project: When did the Duggars move into the TTH?

[gemma]

I agree with those who are stating that this should not have been shown on national television as it was. At least she should have been completely covered while lying there covered with all those wires. You could see her chest. I would not want to look back on that as a memory of my childhood.

[fabkiwi06]

When seizures reach 5 minutes in duration, usually Diastat is administered and it is a gel that is "injected" rectally. That would explain the no pants/blurring scenes. The fact that this is being broadcast to the world cannot be explained...

And for the family to have that medicine, that means it's happened at least once before.

For shame... this is horrible to watch. Jana is a trooper to take care of everything.

[apandaaries]

I know you care about your friends, it comes through clearly in your post. However, most people with epilepsy prefer to be referred to as "a person with epilepsy" rather than as "an epileptic." People,with epilepsy are people who have a medical condition but it does not define them.

It's the same as using "a person with a disability" rather than "a disabled person." Person first, medical condition after.

Actually, my friend and I have had long discussions about this (she was a linguistics major and I was an English major). She used to prefer the latter, as you mentioned. But now she has embraced the term. It HAS limited her choices in life (she couldn't be an OB/GYN because she has her seizures only at night, and babies have no regard for clocks or schedules, etc), and that is now the term she currently prefers. My terminology would change for others, but I shall honor her choices.

ETA: My friend can be a bit abrupt and abrasive in hew diction (it's one of the things I like about her) and I can see how that might not be conveyed at all be the earlier post. We also referred to my "preborn baby" as a fetus and a parasite. It's how we communicate. :)

[SportsgalAnnie]

Michelle: Seizures are "one of Josie's glitches".

Glitches. What an uncaring word.

Glitches?!!?!? SHE IS A HUMAN NOT A ROBOT :pull-hair: :angry-banghead: :wtf:

[halcionne]

Watching the repeat episode right now. Question about the decorating project: When did the Duggars move into the TTH?

January 2006

[MalteseBaby]

My opinion's probably not going to be a popular one, but it is based on years of experience with pediatric febrile seizures and seizures in general as an RN. I watched the 19K&C episode of Josie's febrile seizure tonight, and no part of her body was shown in focus below the chest. I assumed she had either soiled herself during the seizure or was not wearing a full outfit, which might be because of incontinence during the seizure.

I'm an experienced RN. I've seen many, many febrile seizures in young children. Some under the age of one year, which get special evaluation, and usually stopping or greatly slowing down by primary school age, which is when a child is more likely to be able to say " My ears hurt" or " My throat hurts" or " I feel hot, Mommy". So the fever is dealt with sooner because the child is more aware of it. The largest danger with the febrile seizures would be an unattended seizure, as children are at risk from aspirating vomitus or food in their mouths, falling off a high bed or other structure, or even drowning in the bathtub during the seizure.

Josie's febrile seizures aren't alarming to me, except that I feel so sorry for her to have it broadcast on national TV, and also there's the worry and fear that this sort of medical incident generates among most people, because we can probably all agree that a seizure looks alarming. I saw nothing happening that looked like anything but exactly what the doctor in ER said- " A febrile seizure". Josie is more susceptible to them because of her prematurity, and more importantly, because she's reacted to fever in this way in the past. That can't be controlled, as we don't medicate normal children who have occasional to rare febrile seizures in a prophylactic way. Seizures are ALWAYS scary. If a child has one a year or one a month ( for another reason) they are extremely frightening to parents and other children, and people in general. Josie has averaged one per year, if Michelle's numbers are accurate.

It is important to remember that they did do a CT scan of her head at the hospital, and cleared her for discharge home. If there had been underlying pathology, I believe she would have been kept or referred to a specialty children's hospital for further care. This is the standard of care in emergency medicine.

I think that several things will occur to cause her to become seizure- free with fevers as she grows:

-Josie will outgrow her low febrile seizure threshold, or learn to get medicine for a fever right away.

-She will be more aware of feeling unwell with a fever. There's a very good chance that her parents either notice the fever before she has a seizure most of the time, and/ or manage the febrile seizures well with supportive care during the seizure, and appropriate medical care to treat the underlying illness which caused the fever, then the seizure. I don't expect Jana to have the same knowledge base that her parents, who have had 19 children with various illnesses, have. Michelle hands them off as infants, but I believe she and JB take them to the doctor, get their medicine and in general, deal with their illnesses. It was chance that they were gone when Josie became ill with some sort of virus or infection which caused the fever.

-The underlying cause of the fever, such as chronic ear infections, etc, will lessen as she ages.

I pay particular attention to Josie on camera and it seems to me from casual observation that her neurological abilities are on track for a 5 year old. She is alert and extremely talkative in a sensible way for age in her TH segments. It seems, without being able to examine her, of course, that she is on track for her milestones and is thriving. And, to me, her speech is way ahead of Mackenzyie's ( however they spell it, sorry).

I could be wrong, but I think she will be fine if they keep an eye on her wrt viruses and infections starting up for a couple or three more years.

[jingersrealmom]

My oldest daughter had febrile seizures a lot up until she was about 6. Her fever would go from low grade to 103+ in minutes and she would start. Scariest and only ER visit we did was at 5 and her temp went to 104 within minutes of her saying she didn't feel well. And then she went into the longest seizure I'd ever seen. Got to the ER and her eardrum burst, she had mounds of ear snot globbing out of her ear and her fever broke. Just like that. She never even had complained about her ears hurting prior. Was super scary.

Hopefully Josie will outgrow the "glitch" . What a cruel thing to say.

[JillyO]

I agree with those who are stating that this should not have been shown on national television as it was. At least she should have been completely covered while lying there covered with all those wires. You could see her chest. I would not want to look back on that as a memory of my childhood.

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel very strongly about it, so here goes:

I am actually so happy that for once, nobody cared about modesty. This was a medical emergency. It should be the least of anyone's concerns that she be covered for modesty's sake, and I find it pretty appalling that people here are calling for that (not just the poster I am quoting, but others too). This is a little, 5-year old girl, for Christ's sake. There is nothing sexual about her body. People who say that at least her chest area should be blurred (don't remember who that was): WTF is wrong with you? Blurring the chest area of a little girl just serves to sexualize the little girl.

Obviously, the Duggars shouldn't have exploited Josie's medical emergency like that, and it never should have been shown on television. However, the fact that she was not "completely covered" is not one of the issues anyone should have with this episode.

Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

[ScarletStarlet]

I'm pretty amazed everyone is upset at M referring to Josies seizure as a 'glitch', seeing as when *I* had a seizure at the age of 24 that's exactly how the doctors referred to it to me. As a brain glitch.

[Gobbles]

I'm pretty amazed everyone is upset at M referring to Josies seizure as a 'glitch', seeing as when *I* had a seizure at the age of 24 that's exactly how the doctors referred to it to me. As a brain glitch.

I explain my Autism with a different wired brain or having a different operating system. So yes, saying it is a glitch is also totally normal for me. Makes it easier to understand for everyone. I bet (& know) there are people who have never heard about Epilepsy or in my case Autism. Comparing it with something that happens to everyone in daily life is just the best and easiest thing to do.

If I would have a closer relationship with Michelle and she would still be talking about a glitch, that would make me suspicious. Because the people who get to know me better, also get the Autism talk from me and basically a crash course in neurology, haha!

What is better or what sounds easier to the majority of the world? Talking about having a glitch or about mirror neurons? :lol:

Edited to add (+1 spelling mistake):

If I would have a closer relationship (OMG :oops: ) to the Duggars and they would still refer to it as a glitch, that would be not okay for me. All of my closer contacts now a lot about Autism because I told them all about it. Same with Epilepsy. I would definitely give them a lesson in how the react when she has a seizure or what to do. My boss at work has Epilepsy (but it is difficult because he/she (being vague because of privacy) doesn't accept it) and had seizures at work. So in a situation like that referring to a glitch is not acceptable to me.

[Cassielfsw]

I, too, found the "glitch" comment appalling. Michelle would be at least slightly more tolerable if she would acknowledge big issues every now and again.

I agree to some degree, but also was surprised that if it's so common, Jana would react with the panic she did. Then again, my general crisis-reaction is much more like the brother's "let's get this handled and keep our wits about us", so maybe it's just Jana. Or maybe she doesn't seize that often.

I also wanted to seriously let Michelle have it when she was saying that at that far away, there was only so much they could do other than pray. Because here's a suggestion: why don't you hop on that private plane of yours and go home? Your child was in the hospital long enough that had you left when you heard, you would've been there in the hospital with her, instead of arriving the day after she came home.

My heart goes out to Jana. She was so relieved to see her parents come home. How unfair it was of them to stay absent in a situation like that.

It seemed to me that Jana was upset not due to the seizure itself (as upsetting as that already is) but because Josie stopped breathing. As the EMT is carrying her out to the ambulance you can hear him say that she is barely breathing, and in her interview Jana said that Josie was turning blue.

[JHeathen]

Michelle: Seizures are "one of Josie's glitches".

Glitches. What an uncaring word.

And...How many "glitches" does the child have?

My son's a week away in age from her (though NOT a preemie) and she is a much better speaker than him, so FJers speculating on mental delays bug me...but I wonder how many other (health?) glitches Josie has that they aren't telling the world about. Maybe they actually are keeping some things private.

[JHeathen]

Any virus or bacterial infection can cause a sudden, spiked fever.

[Lucy H]

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel very strongly about it, so here goes:

I am actually so happy that for once, nobody cared about modesty. This was a medical emergency. It should be the least of anyone's concerns that she be covered for modesty's sake, and I find it pretty appalling that people here are calling for that (not just the poster I am quoting, but others too). This is a little, 5-year old girl, for Christ's sake. There is nothing sexual about her body. People who say that at least her chest area should be blurred (don't remember who that was): WTF is wrong with you? Blurring the chest area of a little girl just serves to sexualize the little girl.

Obviously, the Duggars shouldn't have exploited Josie's medical emergency like that, and it never should have been shown on television. However, the fact that she was not "completely covered" is not one of the issues anyone should have with this episode.

Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

I understand what you are saying and you completely correct that covering Josie is absolutely not necessary during her medical emergency. Of course the responders are correctly focused on her care and not on any false modesty.

The problem I have is showing an uncovered child on national TV for entertainment. She is being raised to belive that even showing a knee or a collarbone is immodest. It is horrifying her parents sell her uncovered images for financial gain. She will at some point see that film and know that millions of people saw her uncovered. It is not wrong but she is being taught that it is wrong.

No one in that household saw anything wrong with filming an uncovered child during a medical emergency knowing that it might well be televised. Someone, like the young but adult Jana, should have told them to turn the camera off and leave the house.

[txmommyof4]

For most people telling them where they could stick their cameras and making them leave would have been an automatic response. However, these kids have spent their entire lives with a camera in their most private lives. Jana was so concerned with making sure Josie was alright I highly doubt she even thought about the cameras.

[Lucy H]

For most people telling them where they could stick their cameras and making them leave would have been an automatic response. However, these kids have spent their entire lives with a camera in their most private lives. Jana was so concerned with making sure Josie was alright I highly doubt she even thought about the cameras.

True. This is her normal.

[Ali]

To the bolded: That's exactly my fear. Perhaps she's been having them regularly and no one has noticed. Febrile seizures are ones associated with fevers in children; they seem to grow out of this condition as they get older. I know families who have dealt with this problem. They're usually advised to keep a close eye on those kids when they get fevers and to do their best to keep the fevers down (Tylenol, ibuprofen, etc). They're also advised to seek help if the fevers don't respond to the medicines, in the situations I've heard of.

But I'm still confused about how Josie would just *suddenly* spike a fever. That's odd to me.

I'd like to chime in to also recommend a second opinion. It's always good to hear what others have to say, especially in the medical field.

My sister had a febrile seizure once. She was a preemie, but not a micro preemie like Josie. She was not feeling well. I think it was just a cold or something. She was resting on the couch and was doing fine. There were lots of people in the house, so she was never unmonitored for very long. My mom noticed her laying on the couch lifeless. She was not even certain she was breathing. She quickly realized that she felt very hot and I think my parents found her temperature to be 106. She was fine just a few minutes prior to this. She was taken to the emergency room and was fine. The doctor said that she would be at risk for febrile seizures until she turned six. Any time she showed any signs of being sick after that, we monitored her closely and gave her medicine to prevent the fever. She never did get another febrile seizure.

What I am trying to say is that a fever can spike really quickly in some young children.

I also want to say that I saw my sister lifeless on the couch and it was really scary. Whenever my child gets a fever, I get nervous because of what happened to my sister. I don't understand how Michelle could dismiss it as a glitch and not be concerned. :angry-banghead:

[SassyPants]

A toast to James- :clap:

[Kak]

And...How many "glitches" does the child have?

My son's a week away in age from her (though NOT a preemie) and she is a much better speaker than him, so FJers speculating on mental delays bug me...but I wonder how many other (health?) glitches Josie has that they aren't telling the world about. Maybe they actually are keeping some things private.

i completely understand this worry, but some kids just have speech issues and that's all it is. My youngest was the same & I was terribly worried about him. He's a little older than your son and is doing very well at school. He is really clever and I have no worries about him any more. I hope that helps.

[karismanic]

Another thing that bothers me... The cameras weren't rolling until Josie was mid-seizure. Someone made a conscious decision to start filming this scary incident, and that just feels so exploitative to me. It appears they called 911 and then Producer Scott. JB said Scott was there "to try to save Josie's life." No, JB -- your daughter Jana was there trying to save Josie. The only thing I saw the producer do was ensure 911 was called and then that the cameras were rolling. Disgusting.

[SassyPants]

Another thing that bothers me... The cameras weren't rolling until Josie was mid-seizure. Someone made a conscious decision to start filming this scary incident, and that just feels so exploitative to me. It appears they called 911 and then Producer Scott. JB said Scott was there "to try to save Josie's life." No, JB -- your daughter Jana was there trying to save Josie. The only thing I saw the producer do was ensure 911 was called and then that the cameras were rolling. Disgusting.

To me (retired nicu nurse), Scott did appear to make sure that Josie's airway was in an optimal position for air exchange, although no one got down close to see/listen for actual breathing- not even EMS- they just slapped the O2 on via the mask and took off. IMO, she was still exchanging air as she wasn't really blue until EMS arrived. I am glad that Scott was there as a support for Jana at Josie's side...GM was busy on the 911 call. Jana seemed so upset. If I was Jana, this would have been the breaking point for me in terms of my parents and them foisting their responsibilities off onto me.

[MotherOfDragons]

I'm so mad I want to scream! They had no right to film Josie (mid-seizure or after) and put it on television for the world to see. Josie will have to live with this being public for the rest of her life. I'm appalled at how sickeningly exploitative this is!

[Mrs. Figg]

Raise your hand if you didn't watch the episode?

Yeah, I watched it, too.

[sleeepygirl]

Raising hand :hand: I don't know how you all do it, I can't even stand the commercials for 19 KAC. I've never watched an episode. If it's not Michelle's grating voice, it's the blatant bogus happy family crap and faux drama that turns me off. Just knowing what their views are on any subject turns my stomach during commercials. My hats off to you who can, and do watch, and report here on what goes on in crazytown for me!