Alyssa Bates/Webster is wearing PANTS!!

[Georgiana]

Re: Religious Skirt Options

My state and I think in most, employers are required to make REASONABLE concessions for religious beliefs. However, they are allowed to not hire OR fire someone if their religious beliefs cause them to be unable to perform their duties fully and in an effective manner.

Reasonable: minor dress code changes, breaks that do not interfere with your duties

Not Reasonable: A waiter/waitress who cannot interact with the opposite gender, clothing that could be a safety hazard, breaks that interfere with your essential duties

We don't have Sonic's up here, but I do know of some restaurants that ban below the knee or flowing skirts because they are considered a safety hazard. Similarly, any restaurant where the waiters/waitresses dress up may consider it's wait staff "entertainers", in which case wearing a certain outfit is an essential part of the job (Hooters, for example).

So Sonic may have permitted skirts, but not the kind that would be Bates-approved. Or they might have banned them outright as a safety hazard.

[Mama Mia]

Re: Religious Skirt Options

My state and I think in most, employers are required to make REASONABLE concessions for religious beliefs. However, they are allowed to not hire OR fire someone if their religious beliefs cause them to be unable to perform their duties fully and in an effective manner.

Reasonable: minor dress code changes, breaks that do not interfere with your duties

Not Reasonable: A waiter/waitress who cannot interact with the opposite gender, clothing that could be a safety hazard, breaks that interfere with your essential duties

We don't have Sonic's up here, but I do know of some restaurants that ban below the knee or flowing skirts because they are considered a safety hazard. Similarly, any restaurant where the waiters/waitresses dress up may consider it's wait staff "entertainers", in which case wearing a certain outfit is an essential part of the job (Hooters, for example).

So Sonic may have permitted skirts, but not the kind that would be Bates-approved. Or they might have banned them outright as a safety hazard.

Interesting, I wonder what would make a simple long skirt a safety hazard? I could see if it was super flowy or billowy, but the women I see generally seem to be wearing slightly only a- line ( enough to allow for movement) sturdy twill above ankle length skirts . They aren't climbing trees, but they are bagging groceries, unloading boxes, stocking shelves etc.

I mean women used to work in long skirts all the time, and in many parts of the world both men and women wear robes and work just fine. Strange.

[Ofglen]

It just shows how people see things differently! See, that looks like a lycra-type skirt draped between her legs and makes me think that if she is wearing yoga pants, her legs are the size of a toothpick! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a really high quality screen (one of the retina macs), and from my screen whatever she's wearing looks too tight between her legs to be a skirt, imo. Those just look like spandex leggings/shorts. Also, spandex, especially black spandex, tends to have a slimming effect.

[actuallyjessica]

i read a reply from kelly on their blog a while ago about whitney being allowed to wear a skirt to sonic, and she was allowed.

[nelliebelle1197]

Interesting, I wonder what would make a simple long skirt a safety hazard? I could see if it was super flowy or billowy, but the women I see generally seem to be wearing slightly only a- line ( enough to allow for movement) sturdy twill above ankle length skirts . They aren't climbing trees, but they are bagging groceries, unloading boxes, stocking shelves etc.

I mean women used to work in long skirts all the time, and in many parts of the world both men and women wear robes and work just fine. Strange.

Your state can ban that, but accommodation would actually be a federal protection and trump any state or employer ban and it would be case by case. It would not matter if the place has entertainers or tree climbers. If religion was disclosed before the hire, an accommodation would have to be made. In fact, even it wasn't disclosed, accommodation would likely have to be made.

[nelliebelle1197]

I have a really high quality screen (one of the retina macs), and from my screen whatever she's wearing looks too tight between her legs to be a skirt, imo. Those just look like spandex leggings/shorts. Also, spandex, especially black spandex, tends to have a slimming effect.

Yeah, me too, and I still think it looks like fabric between the legs, hence my previous statement. I wish someone brave would pose the question to Kelly about why Whitney's wedding pictures make it look to some like she is wearing pants. :whistle: :whistle:

[actuallyjessica]

she's clearly wearing pants. if it's the pic i'm thinking of, you can actually see her skirt has been taken off and she's holding it.

[nokidsmom]

I bet Whitney wears biking shorts or close fitting pants under those long skirts on a regular basis. Maybe the skirt is something she puts on whenever she goes out. Only a matter of time before she ditches that habit, I think.

I still think she's placating her crazy in laws in part because she does want to fit into Zach's family, how many of us tried to accommodate in law family on something when we got married. I suspect once she's older she might decide it's ridiculous.

[jinseng]

Whitney hasn't really found her 'look' with the skirts. They don't suit her... Im sure shed look better in pants. Whereas the other Bates girls pull of skirts well because they have a had a lifetime of trial and error trying to make them work.

[Formosa]

I think she looks great in skirts!! I am sure she was wearing skirts before she stopped wearing pants like most girls her age do.

[MistofRain752]

I betcha a dollar Whitney wears sweatpants at home when she's cleaning house and tending to the baby! :naughty:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I betcha a dollar Whitney wears sweatpants at home when she's cleaning house and tending to the baby! :naughty:

Would that be bad though? I mean the only man she can defraud at home is her husband...

[nokidsmom]

Would that be bad though? I mean the only man she can defraud at home is her husband...

I don't think Zach minds being defrauded by Whit. At all.

[RosyDaisy]

How can you defraud your own spouse? Or do these people just fuck by pulling up their skirts and unzipping their pants with the lights off? LOL

[nokidsmom]

How can you defraud your own spouse? Or do these people just fuck by pulling up their skirts and unzipping their pants with the lights off? LOL

Well when it comes to fundies, I would argue that after years of brainwashing over being defrauding / defrauded (Nike!) and all of a sudden everything is suddenly OK after getting married, that could be possible. All part of that going from "Zero to 60" thing.

[artdecades]

Would that be bad though? I mean the only man she can defraud at home is her husband...

But its not just about defrauding, its also about not wearing clothing that is associated with men.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

But its not just about defrauding, its also about not wearing clothing that is associated with men.

All of my "skirts only" friends wear pants sometimes. The hardcore only wear jeans for hiking and outdoor activities, with a short tunic type dress over them. Others wear jeans doing chores around their homes. I know at least one who works out A LOT (in her home gym) and wears exercise pants for that. And ALL of them wear sweats/PJ pants.

[Snarkle]

she's clearly wearing pants. if it's the pic i'm thinking of, you can actually see her skirt has been taken off and she's holding it.

Looked at the pictures and you're right - in all of the other pics from that day she is wearing a black knee length skirt, but in that pic the skirt is between them. She must have had the leggings/fitted shorts on under the skirt and took it off at some point. Good eyes!

[Georgiana]

"Defrauding" is only "stirring up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled". Since Whit is his wife, any desires that she "stirs up" in Zach CAN be righteously fulfilled.

So as long as no one else sees her, she can be as sexy as she wants for Zach!

[formergothardite]

But its not just about defrauding, its also about not wearing clothing that is associated with men.

Exactly. When I was at EXCEL(an IBLP event) it really wasn't that uncommon for girls there to have never, ever put on a pair of pants for any reason. It wasn't about defrauding, it was because pants are men's clothing and wearing them for any reason is a sin.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Exactly. When I was at EXCEL(an IBLP event) it really wasn't that uncommon for girls there to have never, ever put on a pair of pants for any reason. It wasn't about defrauding, it was because pants are men's clothing and wearing them for any reason is a sin.

More of an ATI thing then? 'Cause it being a sin is definitely not a thing with the majority of VF-flavor fundies.

[nelliebelle1197]

More of an ATI thing then? 'Cause it being a sin is definitely not a thing with the majority of VF-flavor fundies.

No, it is common in many strains of Christianity. And it IS about pants being men's clothing. If you think these women are running around in pants at home, then that shows a lack of real world exposure/understanding of why this "conviction" is so important to some. It is not primarily about modesty. It is about gender roles. We played sports in culotttes (you could not call the culottes; they were split skirts). Boys hair was measured with a ruler. With these gender roles come a lot of the submission attitudes and patriarchical mindset. And that, my friend, is the whole reason for the gender roles to begin with. That's why I don't see the Alyssa pants thing as some sort of giant transformation. Her husband's family is not skirts only, but have the same beliefs as Gil and Kelly. If John said no to jeans for Alyssa, then there would be no jeans. If John and his dad say Alyssa needs to modernize her look for political reasons, then guess what? Or maybe it is something else and it is a shift. Same with Whitney. Because the whole point of the dress codes really boil down to keeping women - and men - in their roles, I don't think there is enough evidence that any of them will shift away from ATI at this point, especially based on a pair of jeans.

[formergothardite]

More of an ATI thing then? 'Cause it being a sin is definitely not a thing with the majority of VF-flavor fundies.

I wouldn't say it was an ATI thing because even Kristina(when she was still pants only) believed it was a sin for women to wear pants at any time because they were men's clothing. Perhaps VF followers didn't believe that way, but there are lots of fundamental Christians who do.

[nelliebelle1197]

I wouldn't say it was an ATI thing because even Kristina(when she was still pants only) believed it was a sin for women to wear pants at any time because they were men's clothing. Perhaps VF followers didn't believe that way, but there are lots of fundamental Christians who do.

Vision Forum was skirts only. A few families like LIAS moved away from skirts but Douggie, Bradrick!, Browns, Botkins, and minor VF'ers such as the MThomases, fabulous JORDAN! and Beautiful Meliss, Mortons and many others are skirts only. Olivia from Fresh Modesty is a VF'er and she only rarely wears jeans for farm work and then only with a long tunic.

[Tangy Bee]

The Thomas women do wear slacks and capri pants sometimes. I even seen pics of Darth Morton wearing capris on her husband's blog. Well actually it was his sister's blog. The younger Servan women wear shorter dresses than their 2 older sisters.