Lori and Storage Sociopath = A match made in heaven

[Four is Enough]

So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,…

This is that ugly little quote from Ephesians that nobody in the fundy world talks about, that provides the "balance" that I believe Sheila is trying to discuss. Men seem to take the parts before this as gospel. They insist on stopping after "as Christ is the head of the church, so the husband is the head of the wife." But then they say THIS. THIS is what makes it possible to have dialogue in the marriage. This is what allows a discussion of what will go on. Eventually, a decision must be made and carried out, but NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that the marriage is a dictatorship.

ARGH! These people are frustrating.

[Firiel]

Conflict resolution did not work with Lori and Ken, because it was Lori and Ken. It's beyond clear that they were both heavily invested in being right and in control, and not in considering the feelings and POV of the other.

Mutual decision making can work quite well when spouses actually like, love and respect each other, and when treating each other in a kind and loving way is a given.

I'll give an example: there were times when my husband and I were house-hunting that he or I would hesitate about moving, or about buying a particular place. Objectively, some of the places we rejected would have been smart buys. If it didn't feel right, though, we respected that. My husband had some emotional issues with buying a 4 bedroom home after our 3rd miscarriage, because empty bedrooms were too much of a reminder of loss. If he would be unhappy or uncomfortable, it wasn't the right place at the right time, period. Same thing for me when I rejected the idea of moving when I had morning sickness.

YES. Lori and Ken have each (individually) never been interested in communicating or having a healthy marriage or nurturing the other person. So of course conflict resolution didn't work because conflict resolution is built on the principle that you want what is best for the relationship and not what is best for yourself.

[usmcmom]

Oh, brother!

I will speak for some of the submission camp to try and create some balance to this discussion.

I didn't address this in my comment on Sheila's blog, but this first line of Ken's novel is very insulting, in my opinion. He has no humility whatsoever, does he? He just had to let Sheila know that she's not capable of managing her own blog in such a way as to allow balance.

She allows more discussion and differing views than Ken or Lori would ever dream of allowing on their blog. Shelia realizes that a different opinion is not an attack.

[formergothardite]

He's saying that because communication can be used by wives to manipulate their husbands, it should never be used and you should just submit.

Thank you for the translation. My Ken to English translator must be broken because even after coffee I can't follow what he is getting at. :lol: Ken might want to take a look at his own marriage, it is pretty clear Lori uses submission as a way to manipulate Ken. Ken couldn't even get her to make the changes he wanted on her blog. :lol: Before he started backtracking he even admitted she wasn't being submissive towards him when it came to things he wanted to see changed on the blog. Ken has convinced himself he is in control.

[Sobeknofret]

I need more coffee. I have no idea what he said.

I recommend a hearty shot of bourbon in the coffee to help with comprehension. I didn't understand it either.

[jerkit]

Thank you for the translation. My Ken to English translator must be broken because even after coffee I can't follow what he is getting at. :lol: Ken might want to take a look at his own marriage, it is pretty clear Lori uses submission as a way to manipulate Ken. Ken couldn't even get her to make the changes he wanted on her blog. :lol: Before he started backtracking he even admitted she wasn't being submissive towards him when it came to things he wanted to see changed on the blog. Ken has convinced himself he is in control.

Because the knife I'm holding can be used to kill a person rather than cut my yummy pork tenderloin, I should just get rid of the knife. In fact, the knife is fleshly.

[usmcmom]

Has anybody read Lori's blog today?

For those that don't want to click on it; she published a letter that Steven gave to them after the wedding. I find it interesting that what he mentions being thankful for from his mother are all things she's done for him - things that mothers just do. It's almost like he's reciting the list that she's thrown in their faces all their lives - driving them around, making healthy meals, changing diapers.

However, for his dad he specifically mentions being thankful that Ken took time to build a relationship with him.

I'm not disparaging the content of the letter; but just thinking of the difference. There's no mention at all of laughter with his mother, special moments of games or quiet times. There's no real emotional connection, it seems, with Lori.

I also feel a little bad that Lori published that letter. She said she got permission but that could mean that Steven didn't know how to tell his mother no. I have some amazing letters from my son during his time away at boot camp. I've shared one or two lines with others - usually the funny stories. But, as much as I want to shout from the roof tops how inspiring and courageous his words are; I really feel like those letters are special and intimate words between a son and his mother and I would never taint them by sharing them with anybody but my husband and my daughter. Those letters were quietly and lovingly passed around among us but they stayed within the walls of our home. My son trusted me to protect his words and I did.

Maybe I'm over thinking this and I'm the odd one. What do you all think? Should everything be fair game for blog posts and facebook updates?

[jerkit]

Today's post definitely gave me the feeling of being a creepy voyeur. It seemed like something that should not be shared with the whole world.

I also thought it sounded like Steven was repeating the things he knows his mom wants to hear. With his dad, it sounded much more genuine.

[salex]

I need more coffee. I have no idea what he said.

I thought I posted this earlier, but apparently my missive from my tablet written while blow drying my hair went awry.

The more I read Ken and Lori's posts on marriage, the more I think they have zero clue how most marriages work. By most I mean any and all good marriages, any and all ordinary marriages and the vast majority of bad marriages. I am not sure they understand what they read about marriages in general, as distorted as their understanding of marriage has become by living in the rediculous mess they call their own marriage. It is as if they are aliens, or we are, and can't communicate. What's more, they don't try!

It is as if once, about 50 years ago, they found a travel brochure to China, that had been beat up and run over and only had about 2 readable paragraphs, and they studied it and memorized the two paragraphs and then declared themselves experts on China--despite never having been to China, never having read or watched or listened to anything that went beyond or differed from those two paragraphs that they could read in the brochure.

And, when they met people who had read the entire brochure, or other books about China, or had been to China or had lived their whole life in China, who told them-- you are limiting yourself to the tiniest bit of info about China, they declared them detractors and argumentative and above all WRONG-- because Lorken knew all that was important and correct about China, and if anyone had other info, or questioned them-- those people were just mean.

What is amazing it Lorken wants us to believe that their limited and lousy experience and their limited and dogmatic reading of those two paragraphs on marriage trumps other people's reading of the same paragraphs and the entire bible. And other people's experience (both good and bad). I believe that anyone who they think might question them or read things differently might as well be speaking Chinese to them, because they can't understand anything outside of their own experience.

I sometimes wonder if , since the kids are gone, the blog is their one common interest. Lori "needs" Ken to save her from the evil commenters Ken gets off lording over strangers on the internet. It gives them somthing to talk to one another about--because otherwise what would they have in common?

Even if occasionally someone makes sense, they have too much invested in Lorken against the world to even listen to another perspective.

That said, since they won't shut up and are likely hurting some women who are desperate, I wish them nothing but impotentence and boils... Dry itchy skin

Edited because I decided wishing boils on someone because they are miserable creatures was too much. Salex.

[salex]

Today's post definitely gave me the feeling of being a creepy voyeur. It seemed like something that should not be shared with the whole world.

I also thought it sounded like Steven was repeating the things he knows his mom wants to hear. With his dad, it sounded much more genuine.

It sounds like he wrote it with the blog in mind, frankly.

[jerkit]

It sounds like he wrote it with the blog in mind, frankly.

Or like Lori wrote it?

[Firiel]

Or like Lori wrote it?

Except Lori could never come up with that many nice things to say about Ken.

[jerkit]

Except Lori could never come up with that many nice things to say about Ken.

And the letter didn't mention being a provider which is the only thing Lori finds attractive about Ken

[usmcmom]

I thought I posted this earlier, but apparently my missive from my tablet written while blow drying my hair went awry.

The more I read Ken and Lori's posts on marriage, the more I think they have zero clue how most marriages work. By most I mean any and all good marriages, any and all ordinary marriages and the vast majority of bad marriages. I am not sure they understand what they read about marriages in general, as distorted as their understanding of marriage has become by living in the rediculous mess they call their own marriage. It is as if they are aliens, or we are, and can't communicate. What's more, they don't try!

It is as if once, about 50 years ago, they found a travel brochure to China, that had been beat up and run over and only had about 2 readable paragraphs, and they studied it and memorized the two paragraphs and then declared themselves experts on China--despite never having been to China, never having read or watched or listened to anything that went beyond or differed from those two paragraphs that they could read in the brochure.

And, when they met people who had read the entire brochure, or other books about China, or had been to China or had lived their whole life in China, who told them-- you are limiting yourself to the tiniest bit of info about China, they declared them detractors and argumentative and above all WRONG-- because Lorken knew all that was important and correct about China, and if anyone had other info, or questioned them-- those people were just mean.

What is amazing it Lorken wants us to believe that their limited and lousy experience and their limited and dogmatic reading of those two paragraphs on marriage trumps other people's reading of the same paragraphs and the entire bible. And other people's experience (both good and bad). I believe that anyone who they think might question them or read things differently might as well be speaking Chinese to them, because they can't understand anything outside of their own experience.

I sometimes wonder if , since the kids are gone, the blog is their one common interest. Lori "needs" Ken to save her from the evil commenters Ken gets off lording over strangers on the internet. It gives them somthing to talk to one another about--because otherwise what would they have in common?

Even if occasionally someone makes sense, they have too much invested in Lorken against the world to even listen to another perspective.

That said, since they won't shut up and are likely hurting some women who are desperate, I wish them nothing but impotentence and boils...

Re: the bolded; it doesn't seem like Ken and Lori have any friends - couples with whom they socialize together. If they did, surely they'd mention it on the blog. After all, they talk about their sex life. If they are never around other couples, they probably don't have any idea how other marriages - healthy marriages - actually work. It seems like they'd at least have a social life within their church, but I don't think they even have that.

It's like they've decided to take the Maxwell approach to marriage - stay away from the outside world so they don't run into anything that might taint their version of truth.

[polecat]

Has anybody read Lori's blog today?

For those that don't want to click on it; she published a letter that Steven gave to them after the wedding. I find it interesting that what he mentions being thankful for from his mother are all things she's done for him - things that mothers just do. It's almost like he's reciting the list that she's thrown in their faces all their lives - driving them around, making healthy meals, changing diapers.

However, for his dad he specifically mentions being thankful that Ken took time to build a relationship with him.

I'm not disparaging the content of the letter; but just thinking of the difference. There's no mention at all of laughter with his mother, special moments of games or quiet times. There's no real emotional connection, it seems, with Lori.

I also feel a little bad that Lori published that letter. She said she got permission but that could mean that Steven didn't know how to tell his mother no. I have some amazing letters from my son during his time away at boot camp. I've shared one or two lines with others - usually the funny stories. But, as much as I want to shout from the roof tops how inspiring and courageous his words are; I really feel like those letters are special and intimate words between a son and his mother and I would never taint them by sharing them with anybody but my husband and my daughter. Those letters were quietly and lovingly passed around among us but they stayed within the walls of our home. My son trusted me to protect his words and I did.

Maybe I'm over thinking this and I'm the odd one. What do you all think? Should everything be fair game for blog posts and facebook updates?

Something about it pinged my radar. For one, it seemed to hit on all of Ken's major talking points. That was strange. For another, I can't imagine why on earth she'd be sharing it unless she simply wanted more blog fodder.

I once wrote a letter once to my mom highlighting all the things that she'd done that had meant something to me. I loved my mom, and every word of that letter was true, but it would give an outsider a false impression of a happy, joy-filled relationship that in reality was strained, unhappy and angry for most of my life. But by the time I'd written the letter, I'd learned to separate my mom from her illness. I was able to see the good that came from her and separate it from the bad that was her sickness.

[HoneyBunny]

It's no coincidence that the letter was shared at the same time Lorken's marriage is being disparaged on Sheila's blog. It's a huge defensive move. A crying from the rooftops "We have a GOOD marriage. We raise GODLY children who tell us all the good things we've done for them. We did it RIGHT. And this letter and the smiling photos are the PROOF".

Guess Lorken have never heard the old adages "things are not always as they appear" and "actions speak louder than words". Because their own actions, which they've made public, prove it does rain in SoCal despite the appearances of only sunny days.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think the letter reflects well on Steven. He took the time to think about something specific to mention about each parent and he probably knew that it would make them happy.

I don't think it reflects much of anything on Lori and Ken, other than the fact that they managed to raise a son who happens to be a decent human being.

[Hisey]

I think the letter reflects well on Steven. He took the time to think about something specific to mention about each parent and he probably knew that it would make them happy.

I don't think it reflects much of anything on Lori and Ken, other than the fact that they managed to raise a son who happens to be a decent human being.

I'm not so sure.Here's what Ken said about how Steven found a wife:

I will tell you Will what my son does when looking for the right one. He gives her a couple of great godly wife blogs to read and then a week later asks her what she thinks. If she throws up all over the content of how to be godly spouse, you probably have the wrong one :). The right ones are going to be very interested in what the Bible says about being a godly, wife not just wanting to be married..

Unless Steven is just humoring his parents ("I also ask them to rate Jesus on a scale of 1 to 10"), it looks like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Koala]

I'm not so sure.Here's what Ken said about how Steven found a wife:

Unless Steven is just humoring his parents ("I also ask them to rate Jesus on a scale of 1 to 10"), it looks like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I'm afraid you're right Hisey. It seems like most of their kids are towing the party line.

1) Son 1 force feeding baby Emma, and then making her sit and watch them eat when she's hungry.

2) Daughter 2 (possibly) pulling the fainting flower routine and insisting that she can only work part time because DINNER! HUSBAND!

I think the verdict may still be out on their oldest daughter. Ken referred (and I can't remember his exact wording), to something about her being the hardest to raise...wish I could remember exactly what he said. On the other hand, Lori has talked about all of the changes daughter 1 made to keep her husband happy and how she went through her closet and got rid of all the clothes he didn't like. Who knows. Being raised by Ken and Lori has the potential to really fuck a person up.

I also noticed this comment from Lori today:

We had one large disagreement about the way one of our grown children were taking and I was very unsubmissive!

So one of the children did something to piss Lori off.

Seriously, I would have just walked away at 18 and never looked back. I see no redeeming features in these people (particularly Lori).

[Koala]

And ps. I am SOOOOOO sick of Lori blathering all over the internet how proud she is that her kids got married without having "all of their ducks in a row". She was on Generation Starvation saying the same damn thing not long ago. We get it Lori. You love to see people who can't afford to support themselves get married and procreate without a thought as to how they'll fund it all. Irresponsibility: It's what all the cool fundies are doing! :dance: :cray-cray:

[Tiger Lily]

I'm not so sure.Here's what Ken said about how Steven found a wife:

Unless Steven is just humoring his parents ("I also ask them to rate Jesus on a scale of 1 to 10"), it looks like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

If true, this is VERY disturbing. To be so controlling from the very beginning is just ... so not what Jesus would do. I hope things work out for Emily.

I'm really hoping that Ken was lying his head off here. If not, this doesn't say good things about Steven at all.

[feministxtian]

Thought of the shrinking violet and her he-men defenders today while I was packing and moving boxes. I'm going out to start my new job in a week and a half while the hubs stays here tying up some loose ends...

I can't see Loriken doing something like this...she probably couldn't get her shit together enough to figure out how to pack a house, make arrangements for storage, go out, find a new house and then arrange to have everything moved...and do it all w/o Ken's "help".

She's a sorry-ass excuse for a woman, wife and mother.

[usmcmom]

Thought of the shrinking violet and her he-men defenders today while I was packing and moving boxes. I'm going out to start my new job in a week and a half while the hubs stays here tying up some loose ends...

I can't see Loriken doing something like this...she probably couldn't get her shit together enough to figure out how to pack a house, make arrangements for storage, go out, find a new house and then arrange to have everything moved...and do it all w/o Ken's "help".

She's a sorry-ass excuse for a woman, wife and mother.

Best of luck in your new job and the move.

Reminds me of a move we did when we were young. My hubby stayed behind to work while I came back "home" with our baby boy to look for houses. I stayed with my mother but each day I loaded the baby into the car and drove an hour to meet the realtor. I chose a house and watched the 'Sale Pending" sign be placed in the front yard, with a baby on my hip and no input from my husband. Well, he did set the budget but the rest was on me. It's amazing what "real" couples can accomplish when they work as a team, right?

Hope the next few weeks go smoothly for you.

[feministxtian]

we've already set the budget for a house (we'll be renting) and what we'd like. His tastes and mine are so similar I have no problem looking at and picking a house w/o him. It'll all work out :)

And yes, we work well as a team. No fighting or arguing about houses or where the furniture will go or anything else of that foolish nature. The only thing that bugs me is that everyone seems to think that it's unusual for a husband and wife to be able to agree w/o any arguing, fussing, or any of that other shite.

***and no manipulating needed to "get my way"...we discuss things...you know, like adults!!!

[Curious]

Has anybody read Lori's blog today?

For those that don't want to click on it; she published a letter that Steven gave to them after the wedding. I find it interesting that what he mentions being thankful for from his mother are all things she's done for him - things that mothers just do. It's almost like he's reciting the list that she's thrown in their faces all their lives - driving them around, making healthy meals, changing diapers.

However, for his dad he specifically mentions being thankful that Ken took time to build a relationship with him.

I'm not disparaging the content of the letter; but just thinking of the difference. There's no mention at all of laughter with his mother, special moments of games or quiet times. There's no real emotional connection, it seems, with Lori.

I also feel a little bad that Lori published that letter. She said she got permission but that could mean that Steven didn't know how to tell his mother no. I have some amazing letters from my son during his time away at boot camp. I've shared one or two lines with others - usually the funny stories. But, as much as I want to shout from the roof tops how inspiring and courageous his words are; I really feel like those letters are special and intimate words between a son and his mother and I would never taint them by sharing them with anybody but my husband and my daughter. Those letters were quietly and lovingly passed around among us but they stayed within the walls of our home. My son trusted me to protect his words and I did.

Maybe I'm over thinking this and I'm the odd one. What do you all think? Should everything be fair game for blog posts and facebook updates?

The mention of those special times are in this letter to the nanny and she doesn't have a blog to post her entire life to the public ;)