MERGE: Mark Driscoll in the news again/Mars Hill Hits Fan

[Palimpsest]

I wouldn't say Driscoll has fallen like Phillips and Gothard have. Perhaps in the coming months, but not yet.

Yep, premature rejoicing on my part re. Driscoll. OTOH, Acts29 dropping him like a hot potato and all these not-anonymous folk calling him out still warms the cockles of my heart. :mrgreen:

[Rainytown]

They only have five as of the early 2014 sermon I listened to the other day.

Sorry to everyone for my inaccuracy re: Driscoll's family.

I still make the point his wife wanted to stop after #4, and he flatly refused. I'd be curious to know how many diapers he's changed over the past fifteen years or so. I'm betting NOT ONE.

In the meantime, if you'd like to get up to speed on what's happening with Mars Hill, Mars Hill Refuge has closed up shop, but she left some tremendous links to follow. I hope the link below is acceptable to the moderators.

http://marshillrefuge.blogspot.com/

[RosyDaisy]

I think what we are seeing is the slow demise of Christian Patriarchy. And now I can't the song "Another One Bites the Dust" out of my head.

[neuroticcat]

I was just thinking how truly happy I am that the lies and manipulation are coming into the light. And It made me think of William Wallace II's rant against feminists - how they are the Greatest Evil or whatever.

And for some reason it struck me that in all the twisted things he says, he's right about that. Feminism and respect for all people IS the enemy of that kind of insanity. But he's just confused as to who are the Good Guys and who are the Bad Guys.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Courtesy of komonews.com:

He talked shit about Bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori? Driscoll isn't even on the same LEVEL as her. She's awesome and is helping to guide the Episcopal church with love and respect and compassion. Plus, she's an ACTUAL badass.

[neuroticcat]

Wow. Former pastors have now brought formal charges against Driscoll and Mars Hill:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthro ... -driscoll/

"We have selected more recent examples to challenge a prevalent impression that while Pastor Mark may have sinned in these ways in the distant past, he has been a changed man in more recent years. To the contrary, we know of recent evidence that strongly indicates disqualifying patterns having continued into recent times...

October 2011—Mark said in a meeting that he did not want a certain staff elder (who was not slim) to take on a certain prominent leadership role because “his fat ass is not the image we want for our church.â€

May 8, 2012—In a meeting of the Full Council convened to vote on the slate of nominees for the new board of advisors and accountability, Mark was explaining to the elders that under the newly revised bylaws, the Full Council would have the right to review any changes by the board. One elder corrected Mark with his own understanding that the new bylaws, in fact, allow the board to make decisions without running it by the Full Council. Mark’s response to that elder was bullying, with some elders present recalling language to the effect of: “I don’t give a shit what you think. I’m trying to be nice to you guys by asking your opinion. In reality, we don’t need your vote to make this decision. This is what we’re doing.â€

Summer 2012—Domineering and arrogant—In an all-MEDCOM [Media & Communications team] meeting discussing his displeasure over the way the team had been marketing R12, Mark said, “You think you’re the Resurgence. But, you’re not the brand. I’m the brand!â€

March 2013—Violence: Threatened to tear down a former elder’s church plant, saying “I’ll tear his church down brick by brick.â€

July 2013—Mark commanded MEDCOM staff to redirect marketing for R13 with the branding and messaging of his book, “Call to Resurgence.†At least one staff member fought back on the principle of conflict of interest—Mars Hill, being a non-profit org, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to push a book that Mark makes personal profit from.)

May 2014—Mark told elders that he was not aware of the ResultSource agreement but had chosen to admit knowledge of it for the sake of the team in his letter to the church, and that others had made the decision to work with ResultSource. He claimed that another elder and Mark’s publishers made the decision to work with ResultSource without his knowledge. He insinuated that he had learned about the ResultSource agreement only after the story broke on World magazine. In fact, Mark agreed to work with ResultSource on the Best Seller Campaign for Real Marriage as early as July 2011."

[jerkit]

I guess I don't understand what "formal charges" means.

[neuroticcat]

I'm not really sure. At first I thought it meant some kind of lawsuit. But I think it is more an internal thing - bringing formal charges against Mark to the Mars Hill board of accountability so they have to deal with it. In the blog post there's a link to the actual charges, and it seems like a church-court sort of thing.

[jerkit]

I'm not really sure. At first I thought it meant some kind of lawsuit. But I think it is more an internal thing - bringing formal charges against Mark to the Mars Hill board of accountability so they have to deal with it. In the blog post there's a link to the actual charges, and it seems like a church-court sort of thing.

Yeah, I skimmed the actual charges.

I think what's going to happen is they will "investigate" and come out and say the charges were not warranted.

[RosyDaisy]

All I can say is "another one bites the dust".

[Joan of Snarc]

Wow. Former pastors have now brought formal charges against Driscoll and Mars Hill:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthro ... -driscoll/

"We have selected more recent examples to challenge a prevalent impression that while Pastor Mark may have sinned in these ways in the distant past, he has been a changed man in more recent years. To the contrary, we know of recent evidence that strongly indicates disqualifying patterns having continued into recent times...

October 2011—Mark said in a meeting that he did not want a certain staff elder (who was not slim) to take on a certain prominent leadership role because “his fat ass is not the image we want for our church.â€

May 8, 2012—In a meeting of the Full Council convened to vote on the slate of nominees for the new board of advisors and accountability, Mark was explaining to the elders that under the newly revised bylaws, the Full Council would have the right to review any changes by the board. One elder corrected Mark with his own understanding that the new bylaws, in fact, allow the board to make decisions without running it by the Full Council. Mark’s response to that elder was bullying, with some elders present recalling language to the effect of: “I don’t give a shit what you think. I’m trying to be nice to you guys by asking your opinion. In reality, we don’t need your vote to make this decision. This is what we’re doing.â€

Summer 2012—Domineering and arrogant—In an all-MEDCOM [Media & Communications team] meeting discussing his displeasure over the way the team had been marketing R12, Mark said, “You think you’re the Resurgence. But, you’re not the brand. I’m the brand!â€

March 2013—Violence: Threatened to tear down a former elder’s church plant, saying “I’ll tear his church down brick by brick.â€

July 2013—Mark commanded MEDCOM staff to redirect marketing for R13 with the branding and messaging of his book, “Call to Resurgence.†At least one staff member fought back on the principle of conflict of interest—Mars Hill, being a non-profit org, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to push a book that Mark makes personal profit from.)

May 2014—Mark told elders that he was not aware of the ResultSource agreement but had chosen to admit knowledge of it for the sake of the team in his letter to the church, and that others had made the decision to work with ResultSource. He claimed that another elder and Mark’s publishers made the decision to work with ResultSource without his knowledge. He insinuated that he had learned about the ResultSource agreement only after the story broke on World magazine. In fact, Mark agreed to work with ResultSource on the Best Seller Campaign for Real Marriage as early as July 2011."

So they're shocked Driscoll is an asshole? Not too quick on the uptake, are they?

:roll:

His formerly fawning sycophants sense blood in the water; let the feeding frenzy begin!

:character-jaws:

eta: reworded some shit

[Jasmar]

Sigh.

When my (to-be-ex) husband and I were trying to find a church 2-3 years ago, I strongly resisted the local branch of MH because I'd read some of the stories online about how he treated former friends and MH founders. My husband wasn't interested in actually looking into the claims, just shrugged it off. Since he didn't press the issue of joining MH, I let it go, but we know a lot of people who are part of the local version.

I do not understand the unwillingness to look at the hateful garbage these celebutante pastors spew until it's too late and the body count is high enough that it's no longer possible to ignore the stench.

ETA: This was before I had ever heard any of the misogynistic stuff. I can't even.

Also, the thought I didn't complete above is that it really steams me that the sycophants suddenly develop moral outrage once a story goes sufficiently mainstream. So it's not the problems they have a problem with, it's the fact that the outside world sees the problems.

[nokidsmom]

Also, the thought I didn't complete above is that it really steams me that the sycophants suddenly develop moral outrage once a story goes sufficiently mainstream. So it's not the problems they have a problem with, it's the fact that the outside world sees the problems.

Bingo! Exactly this.

[Rainytown]

And Mark Driscoll's troubles make the national paper of record, the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/us/ma ... share&_r=0

He's telling parishioners to "bring their Bibles on Sunday". In other words, he has no intention of stepping down or even taking a leave of absence. I predict the 25 former board members and pastors will have to do a lot more than file charges. They're going to have to get the local police involved re: Where's the Global Fund, IMHO.

[Howl]

The people who are "filing charges" are filing church-y type documents that allege that MD is not fit to be a pastor, rather than a civil or criminal suit, correct? If this is a church issue, where and with whom are the charges filed?

His formerly fawning sycophants sense blood in the water; let the feeding frenzy begin!

:character-jaws:

Awesome characterization of the dynamic going on.

[RosyDaisy]

Unless actual crimes have been committed, this is for the church to handle on it's own.

[Swamptribe]

If I'm not mistaken, they just featured this church on tonight's episode of "Four Weddings."

http://marshill.com/udistrict

https://www.facebook.com/thecitychurchud

YUp, pretty sure that was him doing the service.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... -driscoll/

[GolightlyGrrl]

I'm sure this will shock nobody but Driscoll was a shitty boss according to former employees.

http://jezebel.com/pastor-mark-driscoll ... 806026/all

[Howl]

Unless actual crimes have been committed, this is for the church to handle on it's own.

Yes, but how? Pastor Mark holds all the cards and power in this situation. The Elders are accountable to him and not the other way around, it seems. Is there another larger denominational entity that Mars Hill belongs to or is it a way to bring things to a vote of the congregation?

MD is all about market, brand, image and controlling that image. I am sure all of the issues going on are being dealt with through a PR-damage control paradigm without a lot of soul searching going on. This "bring your bible Sunday: is an effort to rally the troops and forestall a negative congregational vote (if that is how this issue is to be settled).

[louisa05]

Yes, but how? Pastor Mark holds all the cards and power in this situation. The Elders are accountable to him and not the other way around, it seems. Is there another larger denominational entity that Mars Hill belongs to or is it a way to bring things to a vote of the congregation?

MD is all about market, brand, image and controlling that image. I am sure all of the issues going on are being dealt with through a PR-damage control paradigm without a lot of soul searching going on. This "bring your bible Sunday: is an effort to rally the troops and forestall a negative congregational vote (if that is how this issue is to be settled).

Pretty sure the congregation has no vote at Mars Hill. The "charges" are an attempt by several former employees and members who were shunned to hold him accountable for something. But that is up to his hand picked and personally controlled board of elders to handle and they will issue a statement in due time that will likely be crafted by whatever PR firm Driscoll is employing. I've seen speculation that Sunday will feature a dramatic plea for forgiveness and promise of change, but I tend to think it will feature Driscoll doubling down on how he is the only one with the courage to preach the real gospel and his detractors are from Satan or whatever. Standing ovations will follow and he will escape down his private hallway to his private office and the whole place will go on like nothing is amiss.

[Jasmar]

Yeah, there is no congregational voting at Mars Hill, aside from braving the firestorm of persecution and inevitable shunning that happens when people vote with their feet.

I was part of a church that was led by a fanboy in the late '00s. There was a huge to-do about a year into the church. It had started with about forty people, but had grown to about 200 in a year or so. The pastor had been traveling up to Seattle semi-regularly to worship I mean study at the feet of MD.

He suddenly announced that he and the (one) elder were in charge of everything, mercilessly mocked the idea of congregational voting, and basically stated that anyone who didn't agree with him could leave. Then they came up with a church membership agreement we were all supposed to sign.

I never felt comfortable signing, and began agitating to leave. It took another year or so before my husband finally very reluctantly agreed to leave. Within a year the place imploded, and is still infamous for the damage left in its wake.

[Howl]

Two hours difference between Pacific Coast time and Central. Can't wait to hear about the "big announcement" by Pastor Mark™ at today's "bring your bible" service. Maybe I should see if it is streamed live on the interwebs. Don't know if I could really stand to listen to this Evangedouche, though. (The Evangedouce designation is courtesy of the Jezebel Web site/Lindy West.)

So, thank you, GolightlyGrrl, for the Jezebel link. Great piece by Lindy West and awesome comments.

There is also a link in there for Lindy's 2013 piece Worst Guy Ever Alert: Beware of Horrible Hipster Pastor Mark Driscoll listing his most cringe worthy comments and beliefs.

[jerkit]

I thought for certain they streamed their services live, but I guess not.

[hoipolloi]

Driscoll is taking at least six weeks off while the charges are "investigated." (patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/08/24/announcement-mark-driscoll-will-take-time-off-while-charges-against-him-are-investigated/)

Reading a prepared statement, Mark Driscoll told the Bellevue campus of the Mars Hill Church congregation this morning that he will take at least six weeks off as lead pastor of Mars Hill Church while charges against him are investigated. Driscoll preached at Bellevue at 8:30 am to a packed house. According to sources in church this morning, Driscoll said he is meeting with mature Christian men unrelated to the church. The message is being played at other locations this morning....According to those at Bellevue this morning, Driscoll also addressed some of the controversies swirling around him. He said the charges against him would be handled in accord with the by-laws and that a report would be created from this investigation. He said he would do no outside speaking or speak from the pulpit while he was away. Fellow executive elder Dave Bruskas will handle the First John series.

Like CJ Mahaney's stepping aside "for a season," this will come to nothing or, at most, MD will go elsewhere to set up a new business scam church.

ETA: there is an audio of Driscoll's message at the link above.

[Rainytown]

Like CJ Mahaney's stepping aside "for a season," this will come to nothing or, at most, MD will go elsewhere to set up a new business scam church.

My money's on "this will come to nothing" unless those who aren't on the board of directors or otherwise controlled by Driscoll start talking publicly about the things they know. Let's hope one or more of the local TV/newspapers in Seattle decide to investigate, too. The Stranger has been doing a masterful job of holding his feet to the fire.

Driscoll and his church are a cancer. Spiritual abuse is not a joke.

The Mars Hill "I Am Not Anonymous" FB page is interesting reading these days...