MERGE: Mark Driscoll in the news again/Mars Hill Hits Fan

[halcionne]

So it looks like Lifeway pulled his books. Not a fan of censorship at all, but I'm also not sad to see his books off shelves.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani ... stian.html

Also if you want to see the full letter Acts 29 sent and the response from their elders, there are quotes here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani ... ndler.html

That's not censorship, it's a business decision. Just sayin'.

[RachelB]

That's not censorship, it's a business decision. Just sayin'.

I am pleased to see that more organizations and businesses seem to think that associating with him will be a liability.

[neuroticcat]

That's not censorship, it's a business decision. Just sayin'.

Yeah, good point.

[freejingerbeth]

Watched a bunch of old youtube vids, trying to catch up on this guy. I think the scariest thing is, about 10% of his sermons actually make sense, which is probably how he lures everyone in. Anyway, does anyone know why the "Tolerance Rant" was pulled, from youtube? Every website I checked in with had the same result....."This Video Is Private." Weird, cuz all of the others were accessible. :think:

[apple1]

Watched a bunch of old youtube vids, trying to catch up on this guy. I think the scariest thing is, about 10% of his sermons actually make sense, which is probably how he lures everyone in. Anyway, does anyone know why the "Tolerance Rant" was pulled, from youtube? Every website I checked in with had the same result....."This Video Is Private." Weird, cuz all of the others were accessible. :think:

In reading a public page that primarily supports people he has injured in some way and most of whom have left Mars Hill - it's very scary how frequently someone says "His theology is great, if only -- insert the if only of your choice" or "I loved the way he preached" or "He was spreading the gospel, but - insert the but of your choice" etc etc.

I have a really hard time with the inability even now of these individuals to see the wrongness of the misogyny and the vulgarity from the pulpit (really - you can't see a problem with that?) and the obsession with sex (like your personal sexual activities in the privacy of your home with your spouse - bear with me because I am talking about his world - are the pastor's business??) and the way out in left field interpretation of the Bible in ways that "nobody else gets it". What - you turned off your brain to all of that because you like/d that he preaches Calvinism, too?

And no, I am not victim blaming, but - really - some still only have their eyes cracked open as slits, not enough to see the whole picture yet.

[apple1]

Example of what I referred to in my previous post -

His theology has hiccups, but it is much more sound and filled with rich biblical content that much of the other authors on the shelves. Again I'll say, yes, he has issues and has ruined lives, but he has also transformed many others, including mine and many friends.

(shaking my head)

[Firiel]

Example of what I referred to in my previous post -

(shaking my head)

I mean, he's ruined lives, but... I mean, it's not THAT big a deal, right?

What the...? That's horrible.

[uber frau]

In reading a public page that primarily supports people he has injured in some way and most of whom have left Mars Hill - it's very scary how frequently someone says "His theology is great, if only -- insert the if only of your choice" or "I loved the way he preached" or "He was spreading the gospel, but - insert the but of your choice" etc etc.

I have a really hard time with the inability even now of these individuals to see the wrongness of the misogyny and the vulgarity from the pulpit (really - you can't see a problem with that?) and the obsession with sex (like your personal sexual activities in the privacy of your home with your spouse - bear with me because I am talking about his world - are the pastor's business??) and the way out in left field interpretation of the Bible in ways that "nobody else gets it". What - you turned off your brain to all of that because you like/d that he preaches Calvinism, too?

And no, I am not victim blaming, but - really - some still only have their eyes cracked open as slits, not enough to see the whole picture yet.

Actually, this doesn't surprise me entirely. One area of focus for many (most? ) Calvinists is being 'doctrinally correct'. They spend a huge amount of time on why everyone else is wrong and their interpretation is right. They can often hold the view that the hard core theology is the most important thing by far, and that all of the other stuff is unimportant. I've heard far too many ppl spout the line that you should never join or leave a church because of the people, you are duty bound to join the most correct. I've seen ppl put up with all sorts of spiritual abuses because they've swallowed that line.

[Trynn]

Actually, this doesn't surprise me entirely. One area of focus for many (most? ) Calvinists is being 'doctrinally correct'. They spend a huge amount of time on why everyone else is wrong and their interpretation is right. They can often hold the view that the hard core theology is the most important thing by far, and that all of the other stuff is unimportant. I've heard far too many ppl spout the line that you should never join or leave a church because of the people, you are duty bound to join the most correct. I've seen ppl put up with all sorts of spiritual abuses because they've swallowed that line.

Seventh day Adventists get that a lot, because of the whole "we are the remnant church!1!1!1" thing. It really messed a lot of people up.

[nokidsmom]

I mean, he's ruined lives, but... I mean, it's not THAT big a deal, right?

What the...? That's horrible.

It just shows how deep in it some folks are, when they can say those two things in the same sentence. Classic abuse rationalization.

[kpmom]

Example of what I referred to in my previous post -

(shaking my head)

But aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

[neuroticcat]

I totally agree. I hear over and over again: but look at how much GOOD Mars Hill has done. Look how many people have converted.

And I think :shock: Look how many people will have a shitload of spiritual abuse to get over!

It also drives me nuts when people get all preachy about "taking this offline" because it's not a good witness to talk badly about the church. WHAT? Or who say: he's a sinner like all the rest of us; the Christian thing to do is to accept his apology. As if someone can't accept his apology AND demand that he stop being in spiritual leadership. :penguin-no:

[louisa05]

I totally agree. I hear over and over again: but look at how much GOOD Mars Hill has done. Look how many people have converted.

And I think :shock: Look how many people will have a shitload of spiritual abuse to get over!

It also drives me nuts when people get all preachy about "taking this offline" because it's not a good witness to talk badly about the church. WHAT? Or who say: he's a sinner like all the rest of us; the Christian thing to do is to accept his apology. As if someone can't accept his apology AND demand that he stop being in spiritual leadership. :penguin-no:

Or that it is only the business of the members of Mars Hill and no one else has a right to question Driscoll. I might consider that valid if I'd never heard of him until now. But he has used that church as a platform for selling himself all over the world. He has published books, appeared on national television, and sought out and been paid for speaking engagements all over the world. He wanted to be and became a celebrity pastor, that means that his character and behavior is actually a public matter. If he stops speaking outside of those walls, pulls the books from the shelves, stops putting the sermons on the web, and confines himself and his influence only to Mars Hill, then it may be only the business of the members of that church. But I don't see that happening. Not of his own volition anyway.

[salex]

Aw man I like both of these. :embarrassed: It explains a lot, though. What does it say about me that I still wear Calvin Klein Obsession?

The wearing of Obsession is simply a statement that you are a woman of sophistication and taste. (said the woman who has a bottle on her dressing table)

I don't wear perfume as much since I got serious about wine....however, Obsession works/worked very well with my body chemistry and will always be in my perfume wardrobe.

Go with what works!

[Rainytown]

MD shares things, in print as well as in sermons, that I would be very surprised if he had asked to share. A case in point-- he has repeatedly called attention to the fact that his wife Grace had sex with someone else before they started dating, and he has said publicly that he would not have married her if he'd known that. It sort of seems as if he's never forgiven her for having a life prior to him, and he has no compunctions about shaming her for it in public.

He's also stated that Grace told him after child #4 she'd like to stop. He said (paraphrased, of course) he wasn't willing to stop with four children or use birth control. He then shamed his wife by stating that child #5 was a "special blessing". The photo I saw recently of their family: Six kids. In other words, he showed her, didn't he?

It is hard to imagine how any woman would marry, let alone stay with, this man.

[jerkit]

He's also stated that Grace told him after child #4 she'd like to stop. He said (paraphrased, of course) he wasn't willing to stop with four children or use birth control. He then shamed his wife by stating that child #5 was a "special blessing". The photo I saw recently of their family: Six kids. In other words, he showed her, didn't he?

It is hard to imagine how any woman would marry, let alone stay with, this man.

They only have five as of the early 2014 sermon I listened to the other day.

[hoipolloi]

They only have five as of the early 2014 sermon I listened to the other day.

Looks like they have five in the photo included with this obnoxious commentary by a Driscoll sycophant-wannabe: tonywarriner.com/hip-hip-horray-mark-driscolls-going-down/

[louisa05]

Looks like they have five in the photo included with this obnoxious commentary by a Driscoll sycophant-wannabe: tonywarriner.com/hip-hip-horray-mark-driscolls-going-down/

That was vomit inducing. And pulled out the standard evangelical obsession with numbers, of course.

I also like the way that d-bag describes himself as "visionary" in his little bio, there. Okay. Thanks for letting us know.

[Tiger Lily]

That was vomit inducing. And pulled out the standard evangelical obsession with numbers, of course.

I also like the way that d-bag describes himself as "visionary" in his little bio, there. Okay. Thanks for letting us know.

Agreed. Don't you love how he blithely minimized the pain Driscoll has called while chastising those who would dare judge? I looked at a few of his other entries. This guy is an arrogant jerk, straight up.

[Tiger Lily]

Agreed. Don't you love how he blithely minimized the pain Driscoll has called while chastising those who would dare judge? I looked at a few of his other entries. This guy is an arrogant jerk, straight up.

Oops, caused not called. :doh:

[Palimpsest]

I'm still catching up on this story, but three of these horrible "false leaders" being toppled in less than 9 months -- Phillips, Gothard, and Driscoll. Sweet.

So, who is next?

[RosyDaisy]

I want to see ALL of these stories, not just the watered down versions we've been reading about. I honestly believe we've just barely reached the tip of the iceberg.

[formergothardite]

I'm still catching up on this story, but three of these horrible "false leaders" being toppled in less than 9 months -- Phillips, Gothard, and Driscoll. Sweet.

So, who is next?

I'm hoping Steve Furtick of the cult like Elevation Church. He isn't as big as these other guys yet, but he is heading there. He not only calls himself a visionary, the church children have coloring pages that show him preaching and say that the children are united under the visionary. He is also doing really shady stuff with church funds.

[neuroticcat]

The Sola Sisters are hyper-reformed. So this is coming from his own crowd: http://www.solasisters.com/2013/12/docu ... -hill.html

edited because I got the blog name wrong.

[jerkit]

I'm still catching up on this story, but three of these horrible "false leaders" being toppled in less than 9 months -- Phillips, Gothard, and Driscoll. Sweet.

So, who is next?

I wouldn't say Driscoll has fallen like Phillips and Gothard have. Perhaps in the coming months, but not yet.