MERGE: Mark Driscoll in the news again/Mars Hill Hits Fan

[neuroticcat]

Here's his blow jobs are Biblical sermon. He also extols his audience to awaken their husband's with them, which strikes me as a not entirely Biblical, but what do I know?

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I've just started down the Mars Hill rabbit hole (hello, Saturday night!), but I can already tell this dude has some major sexual issues. I watched part of a sermon on "spiritual warfare" and he was discussing a teenage girl who kept describing herself as a "dirty girl." He said the phrase "dirty girl" a cringe-inducing number of times...

Yeah, his spiritual warfare stuff is really disturbing. He has this one sermon where he talks about "the gift of discernment" and says that the Lord shows him graphic sexual scenes of congregants' sins. He describes it as a video tape playing in his head of secret knowledge that he then can confront people with: like, I saw you having an affair with so-and-so in that hotel room doing such-and-such. It's totally creepy.

[neuroticcat]

Ah, here it is:

"I see things", i.e. pornographic and abusive visions. And it's a Special Gift from the Lord. :wtf:

[RachelB]

Ah, here it is:

"I see things", i.e. pornographic and abusive visions. And it's a Special Gift from the Lord. :wtf:

As opposed to a sign of demonic possession, to which I'm sure he'd attribute those "gifts" in anyone else. Blech.

[Columbia]

(From the article)

What...WTF is this all about? Summoning devils? Can anyone expound on this practice? I had no idea it was a thing actually done by a serious church organization. I'm imagining Driscoll talking to thin air and saying to everyone "Can't you see the DEMON before me?" And everyone just nodding along to keep him happy...

ETA: Wow. Predictably news, everybody! Mental illness is caused by demonic possession. So is a host of other things, according to the Mars Hill Website: "Please consider the following list and list each thing that has been besetting and/or habitual for you: bestiality, habitual lying, physically unhealthy, masturbation, lying, pornography, ongoing depression, suicidal thoughts, alcohol abuse, drug use, anger, blasphemy, violence, self-inflicted injury, rape, incest, eating disorders, mental illness, pedophilia, and anything else that comes to mind." Yeah...I always knew my bad back was caused by the debil and not, you know, that spinal fusion I had. Anyway, Driscoll outlines the wackiness that is a "demon trial" on his website...marshill.com/2008/08/26/spiritual-warfare. The whole thing seems to me to be a way to get ultra-personal information from someone, to be recorded and used at a later date for Driscoll's own devices.

So if anger is demon caused, then Mark is...?

[neuroticcat]

As opposed to a sign of demonic possession, to which I'm sure he'd attribute those "gifts" in anyone else. Blech.

I know, right? I feel the same about his anti-woman - anti-human, really - rants as William Wallace II. If we're pointing fingers about demonic influence...

[Trynn]

He himself admitted in that clip that he's it always right in what he sees.

The church I grew up in believed that if you were wrong JUST ONCE, it was not a gift from god, and you were not a true prophet.

Driscoll himself admits he's a fake.

[DomWackTroll]

They're starting to report on the protest and post pics on the "We are Not Anonymous" FB page. Their count is 60-65 protesters.

[jerkit]

Anyone else saying the things he said in the sex sermon would make me uncomfortable, but not completely disgusted. I feel like I need to take a shower after hearing him say it.

[Rainytown]

I was very happy to read there was a strong local media presence at today's protest. I'm sure the media interest (and multiple TV station cameras) saved those in front of the church today from problems with the local police department. I was not feeling well this morning and unable to attend as a result.

It was amusing to note that Mars Hill's "welcoming" or "security" personnel were sent outside with coffee and doughnuts. When that did not get the required result, they handed out church literature and a gift certificate for a free book from the Mars Hill bookstore. (?) They evidently believed (or were told by church hierarchy) that those standing outside today are not former members of their congregation.

Mars Hill is a cancer. Pass it on.

[Rainytown]

Anyone else saying the things he said in the sex sermon would make me uncomfortable, but not completely disgusted. I feel like I need to take a shower after hearing him say it.

Imagine how enjoyable it would be to sleep with a man who believed that women are not worthy to have an opinion and they're not to speak to him, re: his comments to the woman who actually asked him a question while he was in his "William Wallace II" persona. It's hard to imagine that any man with his attitudes toward women would care at all if the woman he was with found pleasure, either.

He's repugnant and his views on sexuality in marriage are abusive. There, I said it.

[Joan of Snarc]

I'm really glad I've lived long enough to see protests outside a hatemongering megachurch -- complete with media coverage. It's a good day in America.

8-)

[mirele]

Just so people don't get the idea that Driscoll has cleaned up his act. This is from 2012. He compares Esther to a candidate on "The Batchelor," as opposed to what she really was. Which was a sex slave to a despotic king who could have had her executed at any time. Just read this slimy crap. The man hates women.

“She grows up in a very lukewarm religious home as an orphan raised by her cousin. Beautiful, she allows men to tend to her needs and make her decisions. Her behavior is sinful and she spends around a year in the spa getting dolled up to lose her virginity with the pagan king like hundreds of other women. She performs so well that he chooses her as his favorite. Today, her story would be, a beautiful young woman living in a major city allows men to cater to her needs, undergoes lots of beauty treatment to look her best, and lands a really rich guy whom she meets on The Bachelor and wows with an amazing night in bed. She’s simply a person without any character until her own neck is on the line, and then we see her rise up to save the life of her people when she is converted to a real faith in God.â€

From here: (link broken) pastormark.tv/2012/09/04/5-reasons-why-esther-may-be-the-toughest-bible-book-ive-ever-preached

[Trynn]

What? Anyone who's read the book of Esther knows that Esther was a very courageous woman. yes, the bible doesn't talk about anything she did until her neck was on the line, but even the most hardcore biblical literalistic I've met acknowledge that the bible is not a complete record of what was going on in those times.

Perhaps Esther did other courageous things, and they are simply not recorded because they weren't relevant to the greater history going on at the time.

And Lukewarm Christian upbringing? Please. Did Driscoll just totally skip over the part where Mordecai refused to bow to Haman because he loved God so much? That does NOT strike me as lukewarm Christianity. Not one little bit.

[hoipolloi]

What? Anyone who's read the book of Esther knows that Esther was a very courageous woman. yes, the bible doesn't talk about anything she did until her neck was on the line, but even the most hardcore biblical literalistic I've met acknowledge that the bible is not a complete record of what was going on in those times.

Perhaps Esther did other courageous things, and they are simply not recorded because they weren't relevant to the greater history going on at the time.

And Lukewarm Christian upbringing? Please. Did Driscoll just totally skip over the part where Mordecai refused to bow to Haman because he loved God so much? That does NOT strike me as lukewarm Christianity. Not one little bit.

Well, this is what happens when someone thinks with the little head.

[kpmom]

What? Anyone who's read the book of Esther knows that Esther was a very courageous woman. yes, the bible doesn't talk about anything she did until her neck was on the line, but even the most hardcore biblical literalistic I've met acknowledge that the bible is not a complete record of what was going on in those times.

Perhaps Esther did other courageous things, and they are simply not recorded because they weren't relevant to the greater history going on at the time.

And Lukewarm Christian upbringing? Please. Did Driscoll just totally skip over the part where Mordecai refused to bow to Haman because he loved God so much? That does NOT strike me as lukewarm Christianity. Not one little bit.

And isn't Esther part of the OT? What's with the Christian stuff anyway?

[jerkit]

I'm a little burnt out on Stevie right now, so I'm watching the Real Marriage series on YouTube. I expected Marky to be...angrier? I guess is the right word. He's eerily calm.

[Trynn]

And isn't Esther part of the OT? What's with the Christian stuff anyway?

A lukewarm Jewish upbringing might've been better terminology...

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm a little burnt out on Stevie right now, so I'm watching the Real Marriage series on YouTube. I expected Marky to be...angrier? I guess is the right word. He's eerily calm.

Maybe this is the old lady in me talking, but I find a grown-ass man wearing what's "cool" and "in" with the teenyboppers to be more than a little creepy. The skateboarding shoes and hoodies? Seriously, Mark?

[jerkit]

Maybe this is the old lady in me talking, but I find a grown-ass man wearing what's "cool" and "in" with the teenyboppers to be more than a little creepy. The skateboarding shoes and hoodies? Seriously, Mark?

Oh in these videos he's dressed appropriately. Not suit and tie, but not like a frat boy.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/08/05/3467250/mark-driscoll-protest/

Another new article

[ThisOlGirl]

Maybe this is the old lady in me talking, but I find a grown-ass man wearing what's "cool" and "in" with the teenyboppers to be more than a little creepy. The skateboarding shoes and hoodies? Seriously, Mark?

Yes! I've always said that if he wasn't a fundie, he'd be that creepy dude at a bar that's dressed way too young for his age trying to pick up college girls.

[Trynn]

Not so much with clothes, because those are mostly personal style, but I alway hated it when pastors or youth leaders tried to act like us. They would try to act like they were our age, when I would've respected them more if they would act THEIR age.

[PennySycamore]

And isn't Esther part of the OT? What's with the Christian stuff anyway?

That's what I wanted to know, kpmom! Esther was Jewish.

I think this is called for right now:

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[jerkit]

I have a very dark secret to share. I just subscribed to the Mars Hill podcast.

[neuroticcat]

That's what I wanted to know, kpmom! Esther was Jewish.

I think this is called for right now:

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That video is amazing - ha!

I also find Driscoll's interpretation so erroneous but also evidence of his hatred of women. It's like he can't even celebrate the few strong female characters in the biblical narrative. A woman saves her people, and Driscoll has to put her back in her place - she's a deceived woman who is sexually immoral. I mean, what?

As an aside it kind of makes my head explode when people say the same about Bathsheba. Since both of those women had So Much of a Choice and So Much Power in that culture. They were raped.

Also: what does he mean, at the end she finally believes in God? The book of Esther is known as the only book in the OT canon that doesn't have the Lord's name anywhere in it. There is no personal-faith message - which I think is hard for a church like Mars Hill to wrap their minds around - it is about God saving his people through the courage of (gasp!) a woman!