MERGE: Mark Driscoll in the news again/Mars Hill Hits Fan

[louisa05]

Totally agree. But this articles seems to say that the MH locations closed specifically because of the penis home comment, which is not true.

Salon published basically the exact same story and also gave Libby Anne at Love Joy Feminism the credit for "unearthing" the William Wallace posts. Extremely poor reporting all the way around. She was among the last to comment on them around the blogosphere and certainly did not find them. And the dominos have been falling all around Driscoll for some time now, those forum posts are just one of them.

[neuroticcat]

Yeah, the title on that article is misleading.

Three separate things have happened:

Driscoll posted about women as "penis homes" in his William Wallace rants from 2001. These resurfaced in the past few weeks and have contributed to the Mars Hill downward spiral.

After nine current pastors sent an internal letter to MH asking for action, one volunteer pastor in Portland was fired and two others voluntary resigned.

This Sunday MH announced they were likely closing three branches because of financial difficulties - and I imagine a great portion of those have been caused by all the bad press around Driscoll and his shenanigans.

So while all three events are loosely related by the very fact that MH is a trainwreck that keeps growing, they actually are not causative.

[lilah]

Penis homes??! You cannot make this shit up.

[Firiel]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK ARE FUCKING STILL DEFENDING THIS ASSHOLE.

[jerkit]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK ARE FUCKING STILL DEFENDING THIS ASSHOLE.

How can you possibly defend penis home?!

[Firiel]

How can you possibly defend penis home?!

Essentially: Taking aside the vulgarity, his core message that marriage is for a man and a woman (translation: teh gheys are ebil) is sound.

This is on my Facebook wall under a Driscoll post right now. Gross.

[jerkit]

Essentially: Taking aside the vulgarity, his core message that marriage is for a man and a woman (translation: teh gheys are ebil) is sound.

This is on my Facebook wall under a Driscoll post right now. Gross.

Are they missing the part where he says women and made to be penis homes? That women have no other purpose?

[Firiel]

Are they missing the part where he says women and made to be penis homes? That women have no other purpose?

I don't even know. It was that (not great) article with the amazing headline... I posted it mostly for the headline because I love how well it embodies Poe's Law. Someone jumped in and said, "I'd never heard about Driscoll before this, but..."

I replied to her comment with this: "What I'm hearing you say is that, despite his vulgarities and the objectification of women and the assumptions that men are really only looking for a vagina when they are looking for a wife, his core message is sound because he is against gay marriage. Am I misunderstanding you?"

[jerkit]

I don't even know. It was that (not great) article with the amazing headline... I posted it mostly for the headline because I love how well it embodies Poe's Law. Someone jumped in and said, "I'd never heard about Driscoll before this, but..."

I replied to her comment with this: "What I'm hearing you say is that, despite his vulgarities and the objectification of women and the assumptions that men are really only looking for a vagina when they are looking for a wife, his core message is sound because he is against gay marriage. Am I misunderstanding you?"

Because all of the Bible and theology boils down to teh gayz. It's sort of infuriating that it's become a litmus test for Christians to judge other Christians. There are so many important theological points to discuss and they choose gay secks. :cray-cray:

[Firiel]

Because all of the Bible and theology boils down to teh gayz. It's sort of infuriating that it's become a litmus test for Christians to judge other Christians. There are so many important theological points to discuss and they choose gay secks. :cray-cray:

And a lot more interesting theological points! I mean, I don't really like thinking about other people having sex. If certain Christians weren't so obsessed with thinking about gay sex, we probably could have solved Revelation by now.

[jerkit]

And a lot more interesting theological points! I mean, I don't really like thinking about other people having sex. If certain Christians weren't so obsessed with thinking about gay sex, we probably could have solved Revelation by now.

Or Esther! I mean, seriously, God's not even IN that book. Where the heck did it come from?!

[jerkit]

If you've got time, the comments section on the Love Joy Feminism article about penis homes is really really funny.

[wayward]

So hard to understand why so many people put up with him and Mars Hill. Then again, Jim Jones was able to attract a lot of followers to Jonestown in Guyana.

[louisa05]

And 8 of the 9 pastors/elders who signed the letter calling for Driscoll to step down are now out of Mars Hill.

Why am I not surprised?

[neuroticcat]

And 8 of the 9 pastors/elders who signed the letter calling for Driscoll to step down are now out of Mars Hill.

Why am I not surprised?

Do you know if they were fired or resigned?

Also: an official statement from Mars Hill church today. Especially noticed the final two paragraphs where they 1. Ask that nothing be discussed on social media for the sake of the non-Christians :whistle: 2. Close with a very manipulative final paragraph that basically says if you're considering leaving the church you are not saying "Yes" to God and will most definitely miss out on all the Really Good Things God is going to do:

https://marshill.com/2014/09/09/going-forward

[neuroticcat]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthro ... -are-gone/

[Joan of Snarc]

However, the 30-40 (unconfirmed reports tell me the number was higher) people laid off may not get severance pay and don’t have unemployment.

At first I thought, "That's sad."

Then I thought, "You lie with dogs you're gonna get fleas."

:snooty:

[Howl]

I don't think Mark Driscoll will ever step down, but the entire thing may implode due to bankruptcy. Right now it seems they may be very close to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Perhaps they will just circle the wagons back around the original Mars Hill if the poop hits to propeller.

I've been reading along about the long line of people who have been treated badly, but no one seems to be discussing the abhorrently destructive theology (essentially male supremacy in church and life) that is the theological basis of this (and many other) churches.

Although they may have been treated badly, all the elders who have left or who have been dismissed were pushing the testosterone-riddled Pastor Mark™ religious brand. Mark Driscoll's megalomania seems in some ways a symptom of the larger problem of this religious belief system.

My question is how many of those who have left or were dismissed deeply examine the inherent destructiveness of these beliefs or do they just go off and start their own churches preaching the same things? Or find another church that follows this same basic theology? Is there post-Mars Hill disillusionment enough to have them begin asking the right questions?

I must say that dumping your employees without severance pay or warning while keeping your executive salaries safe is pretty damned horrible.

[formerlyfundie]

Our church is an Acts29 church. I didn't know this until someone asked me if we had found them through "the network" and he had to explain it to me. Our lead pastor has come out and openly said he isn't a supporter of Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll and his POV- but used the network as a support system when he moved to town. They use their music (bands like Citizens which is part of the MH music project label thing) and some of their resources I recognize now since we've been there a while. I'm in a weird place now with the church because I love the people, but I don't know how I feel about them being even loosely based with this hot mess that is the MD/MH fallout. I don't think I can convince my headship to go on another church search, but we will see what happens over time.

And our local thrift store had a whole shelf of MD's last book. Like brand new copies going for 1.99. I got a good chuckle out of that.

[jerkit]

Our church is an Acts29 church. I didn't know this until someone asked me if we had found them through "the network" and he had to explain it to me. Our lead pastor has come out and openly said he isn't a supporter of Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll and his POV- but used the network as a support system when he moved to town. They use their music (bands like Citizens which is part of the MH music project label thing) and some of their resources I recognize now since we've been there a while. I'm in a weird place now with the church because I love the people, but I don't know how I feel about them being even loosely based with this hot mess that is the MD/MH fallout. I don't think I can convince my headship to go on another church search, but we will see what happens over time.

And our local thrift store had a whole shelf of MD's last book. Like brand new copies going for 1.99. I got a good chuckle out of that.

Well MD has been officially ousted from Acts29 so he can't really do any more damage there.

[PopRox]

A news program here in Houston mentioned Mark Driscoll the other night. it was short, but it gave a CliffNotes version of Driscoll's shenanigans. Here's the link (not breaking 'cause it's a news site):

http://cw39.com/2014/09/10/former-pasto ... -a-penis/#

[Trynn]

My friend really really loved driscolls book. I had to stop reading it because it made me sick. I could get it from the library and go over a few chapters for people? I can't do the whole book, but a couple of chapters wouldn't bother me

[HereticHick]

When the Christian School conference was in DC last week & I sat on the metro next to the President of Bob Jones University, I swear he and the men with him were taking about Mark Driscoll. It was so frustrating that I didn't get the beginning and end of the conversation!

[louisa05]

Throckmorton has an open letter to Driscoll and the elders from some Mars Hill members today. The comments are depressing with lots of people cheering that it is all about getting financial transparency and better church governance and not the William Wallace stuff or the NYT bestseller list mess and such.

It is depressing. Nothing is going to fix that place or insulate it from more of the same problems until its members realize that Driscoll's theology is the core of what is destroying their church. As long as he and his pastors and elders subscribe to an interpretation of Christianity that values alpha male behavior, power trips, violence, and the subjugation of women, they will just get more of the same.

[shedemei]

I imagine the majority of members actually do believe that those views are correct. Otherwise, why would they be there?