MERGE: Mark Driscoll in the news again/Mars Hill Hits Fan

[Rainytown]

This is on the MH "I Am Not Anonymous" Facebook page today. It's heart-rending. I broke the link; I hope this is okay with the mods.

ronwheelerjr.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/i-am-not-anonymous-2/

There are people in the comments hoping that Driscoll's wife will be moved to stand up to him as well. I don't see it happening. My thoughts are with her and her children. The stories of the former church members are most likely a walk in the park compared to what's happening with Driscoll's family, IMHO. The sheer amount of national press happening over the past week on Driscoll and MH (and the fact all church communications are defiant at best) leads me to believe MH's leadership believes they can tough it out.

[louisa05]

The Acts 29 Network--a group of churches affiliated with Driscoll and Mars Hill--has thrown out both him and Mars Hill today. Could be the beginning of the end for him.

Link:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthro ... embership/

[Firiel]

WOW.

I didn't see that coming. I thought the excuses would continue until a sex scandal came out.

[louisa05]

WOW.

I didn't see that coming. I thought the excuses would continue until a sex scandal came out.

No kidding. They have sat on their hands through scandal after scandal for years.

Not the end for him by any means. I'm interested in how he and the church will spin this. I still don't see Mars Hill getting rid of him; it is too difficult as he has a stranglehold on everything there.

I would like to see his publisher dump him, too.

[Trynn]

WOW.

I didn't see that coming. I thought the excuses would continue until a sex scandal came out.

Maybe there is one and we just haven't caught wind of it yet?

[GryffindorFTW]

Maybe there is one and we just haven't caught wind of it yet?

Yeah, it's hard to imagine Acts29 jettisoning Driscoll unless there was something truly awful coming down the pike; it's not like they exactly disagree with the he-man spiritual abuse antics that have caused most of the complaints thus far, since Driscoll pretty much wrote their playbook. I'd say there's a good chance they've just gotten wind of something more damaging about to break, and they're trying to cover their asses.

[jerkit]

Something is coming. It's got to be.

[ViolaSebastian]

My gut is screaming "SEX SCANDAL!"

[Firiel]

I really hope there isn't a bigger scandal about to be revealed. Though I find Acts 29 theology dangerous in and of itself, it would be really encouraging that they would be able to at least remove a toxic, abusive, hateful leader without needing the excuse of a sex scandal.

And yes, this action from Acts 29 is too little and too late regardless, but it would be something. It would at least be a recognition and declaration that there are things other than sex scandals that make a pastor unfit for the task.

[Rainytown]

Not the end for him by any means. I'm interested in how he and the church will spin this.

I just came back from my weekly meeting with the colleague that attends Mars HIll. It seems the church has developed talking points to deal with the avalanche o' shit they're faced with right now. The misogynistic comments: "That was 14 years ago. He apologized." The allegedly misappropriated missions funds/plagiarism/shunning former members/on and on: "Well, at least he didn't embezzle money or cheat on his wife." The protestors: "They're bad people. Let me tell you why. Plus, they're just jealous of him."

Mars Hill (and Mark Driscoll) are defiant. The sheer weight of wrongdoing, idiocy and PR nightmares in their organization would crush a publicly held company. The only way he's resigning is if he is indicted for those alleged missing funds, and even that might not be the end.

And again, my thoughts are with his wife and their children, who will suffer the most due to his refusal to do the right thing.

[Firiel]

I always thought it'd be a financial scandal and not a sex scandal that brought MD down.

I'm not sure why I got that feeling. Maybe because his vast array of controversies seem to be surrounding business ethics (plagiarism, buying a place on the NYT Bestsellers list, etc.). I think he knows that sex is fleeting and doesn't help accomplish his ultimate goal of power and influence.

Obviously, I'll feel silly for having posted this if a sex scandal is revealed in two days, but that's my $ .02 as of right now.

[jerkit]

Also, he's made a career shaming his wife for having sex before marriage. It would just be too perfect if he went out with a sex scandal.

[louisa05]

I just came back from my weekly meeting with the colleague that attends Mars HIll. It seems the church has developed talking points to deal with the avalanche o' shit they're faced with right now. The misogynistic comments: "That was 14 years ago. He apologized." The allegedly misappropriated missions funds/plagiarism/shunning former members/on and on: "Well, at least he didn't embezzle money or cheat on his wife." The protestors: "They're bad people. Let me tell you why. Plus, they're just jealous of him."

Mars Hill (and Mark Driscoll) are defiant. The sheer weight of wrongdoing, idiocy and PR nightmares in their organization would crush a publicly held company. The only way he's resigning is if he is indicted for those alleged missing funds, and even that might not be the end.

And again, my thoughts are with his wife and their children, who will suffer the most due to his refusal to do the right thing.

I've seen all of that spin. They haven't spun this one yet, that's all I was referring to. In general, it will be someone else's fault as it is abundantly clear that NOTHING is Driscoll's fault.

I don't see him resigning ever regardless of what comes out. And it is next to impossible for the church to force him out since his massive rewrite of its constitution and bylaws consolidated all the power in his hands or the hands of people who answer only to him for their paychecks-- which was probably done "for such a time as this".

A big enough scandal could eventually cause the church to split and/or hemorrhage members, but he won't leave.

[Flyinthesoup]

My gut is screaming "SEX SCANDAL!"

I don't really know the situation very well and haven't followed it closely, but this I do know:

The triplets that often go together are:

Lying, cheating and stealing along with:

Power, Money and Sex.......

Looking at this list, it appears the only known missing piece of the puzzle is whether or not there is a sex scandal brewing and I think you may well be right.....and even if it's not brewing, I suspect somewhere along the line one will come out.

[ViolaSebastian]

I suppose I should explain my reasoning, here. I will say that listening to his sermon on Song of Solomon and investigating his website made me uncomfortable. He seems a little too interested and invested in the sex lives of his parishioners. He outlines, in detail, what is and what is not okay in their sex lives on his church's website, including how to perform anal sex correctly, whether or not husbands and wives can manually stimulate each other, and how a wife who wears lingerie is 'greatly appreciated.' Also, his 'spiritual warfare' series tends to focus on the sexual side of things--pornography, rape, incest, adultery. I also read (and I'm looking for the article) that he allegedly took the wives of potential elders into a private room and asked them about their sex lives with their husbands. All together, it just feels like there's something amiss here.

[Firiel]

I suppose I should explain my reasoning, here. I will say that listening to his sermon on Song of Solomon and investigating his website made me uncomfortable. He seems a little too interested and invested in the sex lives of his parishioners. He outlines, in detail, what is and what is not okay in their sex lives on his church's website, including how to perform anal sex correctly, whether or not husbands and wives can manually stimulate each other, and how a wife who wears lingerie is 'greatly appreciated.' Also, his 'spiritual warfare' series tends to focus on the sexual side of things--pornography, rape, incest, adultery. I also read (and I'm looking for the article) that he allegedly took the wives of potential elders into a private room and asked them about their sex lives with their husbands. All together, it just feels like there's something amiss here.

I think your reasoning is perfectly valid. The dude's creepy as hell regarding his weird interest in the sex lives of others. It's gross.

I think he knows an affair is too big a risk for him and his empire, though. Again, just a gut feeling.

[Rainytown]

He's got a talking point for possible infidelity already, too: "Mark Driscoll isn't perfect." I've heard it from my colleague, I've read it via church communications, and I believe the reason why Acts 29 finally pulled the plug is that there's something even bigger coming that they are aware of.

IMHO, YMMV.

One more thing: What kind of POS continues to slut shame his wife for something that happened twenty years ago? WHY does she stay with him?

[neuroticcat]

And check out this post where Mark explains the firings of 2006-2007. Guess whose fault it is? Grace! His weak wife who needed him. And the church! Which was killing him. :angry-banghead:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthro ... ns-it-all/

[RachelB]

He's got a talking point for possible infidelity already, too: "Mark Driscoll isn't perfect." I've heard it from my colleague, I've read it via church communications, and I believe the reason why Acts 29 finally pulled the plug is that there's something even bigger coming that they are aware of.

IMHO, YMMV.

One more thing: What kind of POS continues to slut shame his wife for something that happened twenty years ago? WHY does she stay with him?

Reading between the lines, he's emotionally abusive and manipulative to his co-workers, his subordinates, and his parishioners, sometimes in public, insofar as they don't tell him exactly what he wants to hear. And he has gotten away with it for a long time because many people apparently find him charismatic. I cannot imagine that he is radically different with those whom he's closest to.

[jerkit]

He's got a talking point for possible infidelity already, too: "Mark Driscoll isn't perfect." I've heard it from my colleague, I've read it via church communications, and I believe the reason why Acts 29 finally pulled the plug is that there's something even bigger coming that they are aware of.

IMHO, YMMV.

One more thing: What kind of POS continues to slut shame his wife for something that happened twenty years ago? WHY does she stay with him?

Every time he says "if I'd known about her sin, I wouldn't have married her" I want to cry. That poor woman is standing right there and you say that. It's horrible. How could she possibly want to be married to someone that continually and actively regrets marrying her?

[DomWackTroll]

"Season of change," "season of hurt," "season of confusion," "season of readjustment"... Ugh! :angry-banghead:

[Trynn]

I'm not sure I feel too sorry for Grace. I've read parts of their book, and in it she writes a little about female submission and shit.

Also, I got the impression their children were all grow ups?

Hey, on YouTube, check out Mark reads porn again Christian. No, the guy reading it is no Driscoll, he's mark of mark reads.

He is reading a pamphlet written by Driscoll and it is HILARIOUS.

[jerkit]

I'm not sure I feel too sorry for Grace. I've read parts of their book, and in it she writes a little about female submission and shit.

Also, I got the impression their children were all grow ups?

Hey, on YouTube, check out Mark reads porn again Christian. No, the guy reading it is no Driscoll, he's mark of mark reads.

He is reading a pamphlet written by Driscoll and it is HILARIOUS.

I think his oldest is in HS.

[louisa05]

I think his oldest is in HS.

In that mess of excuses for the church reorganization, he says they had just had their fifth child when all that happened, which would make the youngest around 8 years old. There is very little public info about their kids. I have to give them credit for that at least.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Here's Jezebel's take on Mark Driscoll.

http://jezebel.com/hipster-pastor-mark- ... 447325/all

Damn, his face is just so punchable. And you just know he has a drawer full of Ed Hardy t-shirts, a sure sign of douche-dom.