Maxwells on (what some might call) a VACATION!

[tabitha2]

Mary,Abbey, Bethany and the future grand children are the culmination of the Maxwell system-all the work they put into the oldest Maxwell children was started as older children,was trial and error and had some exposure to the world and different ideas.The Babies will never have anything not Maxwell,never have an unapproved thought without guilt.Also,on another note wait till we see that holy of holies a male Maxwell grandchild.I suspect we'll be seeing a lot less of Abbey and Bethany :(

[galaxygirl]

Isn't going to see the chipmunks too much fun for Abby?

[Daenerys]

Maybe no one wants to marry Sarah or the other Maxwells because they are so repressed with the whole 'idols' thing that they don't naturally show emotion or interest in anything. Even fundy men would want a wife with some interests and personality.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I doubt ANY ONE who is a parent of teenagers today "courted" in the sense of it's current definition. Nor were they homeschooled. Nor were they forbidden all contact with non-relatives and non-elderly. This is truly NEW in our society. Even in the hallowed Victorian Days people went OUT to Church and Sunday School. Young men DID ask the father's permission to "keep company" and no one was let strictly alone, but often MORE alone than these poor kids today trying to get married in a QF/P family.

I agree with the other poster that the Maxwell family is it's own cult. I've wondered if Terri's depression is back. I know personally how awful it is even with medication. I can't imagine going thru it with the guilt of it all being my fault for not being joyous enough.

I agree too, that those girls will be waiting a very long time to marry. ESPECIALLY if Terri is struggling again. I just want to send her a case of Pepsi and some zoloft and tell her it'll be ok.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

This made me wonder...could the apparent lack of suitors be due to the fact that Sarah wants to be married so badly? That could make courtship and marriage for her idols in Steve's eyes, and therefore not allowed.

I'm not sure where the guys found you-know-what's big enough to stand up to Daddy and get married, but the girls will not be married anytime soon. Daddy will not find anyone "right enough"...unless of course he finds someone they can't stand and makes it a question of obedience. If I was Sarah I don't know which I'd choose--staying home with Daddy Dearest or going with an icky hubby........ Sarah: Walk out the door and keep walking. Don't look back.

[fundiefan]

For all the things wrong with this I still just cannot get past the fact that Abby's secret desire to see the chipmunks had to be discussed among all the family members - meaning, Steve had to make a decision about what everyone would do. There was more than one vehicle there. Nathan and Melanie are their own family. Why couldn't Steve and those under his thumb go do their hike and Nathan take his wife and daughters to the chipmunks? Why does the entire family have to do the same thing, all the time?

It is beyond creepy to me.

I know I grew up in and am part of a heathen family and all, but there were many years when a whole bunch of us rented cabins on a lake for a week in the summer. Many cousins, aunts, uncles, in-laws. We took over the lake resort for that week, booking up the nine cabins. Each family had their own cabin, or in some cases, those of us without kids shared a cabin with others without kids, or with a larger cabin to fit more people. We did this for about eight years in a row. We all coordinated some parts of the week - like the big cook out night, the big bon fire/fire works night, which days to rent jet-ski's, etc. But, each family had their own car there, of course, and their own plans. Some went to the local towns one day while some went other days or not at all. Some went multiple times to multiple towns. The resort has a bar and some hung out there at night while some hung at the fire pit or in their cabins or went fishing or took one of the boats to a different bar/restaurant on the lake. Some went swimming all day while others went fishing. The jet ski rentals were always across multiple days so everyone got to use them when they wanted and not at one designated time on one designated day. The two cousins with boats took turns doing tubing runs between the fishing runs. For all that there were about 40 of us, of the same family, up there for the same week, we were most certainly not on an all in one vacation where we all had to agree to do all the same things at the same time. No one made the rules. There were no rules. It was vacation. And vacation in part is defined at doing your thing in your time; not having to fulfill responsibilities or be obligated.

It just makes me absolutely crazy to know that Steve has that much control over his entire family, including his grown, married children.

In my family - and most I know - Abby could have asked openly to go see the chipmunks again and her parents - and her parents alone - would decide if and when that could happen and why. No god, no prayer, no taking it to Steve. It's not a life altering situation. A child wanting to do something she enjoyed doing, and is hearing adults talk about, wants to do it again. It's so freaking simple and they turn it into some magic from god...although it was really all up to Steve. The wrong in the entire situation is overwhelming.

**Edited twice for pretty pathetic typos.

[VodouDoll]

Maybe no one wants to marry Sarah or the other Maxwells because they are so repressed with the whole 'idols' thing that they don't naturally show emotion or interest in anything. Even fundy men would want a wife with some interests and personality.

Didn't clibbyjo and demgirl say after going to the Maxwell conference that the whole family is just kind of blank? Like there's nothing going on behind their eyes? I can't see a man wanting to marry a woman like that, who just vacantly goes through life, not wanting anything or enjoying anything or thinking anything, just waiting for him to tell her what she should do and who she should be.

And, of course, it goes without saying that any man who would want a wife like that (like, oh, I don't know, Steve Maxwell, for example) is a TOTAL CREEPER.

[YPestis]

The Maxwells are an uptight bunch who shelter themselves to such an extent that they have sapped all joy and laughter out of their lives. Poor Sarah Maxwell was probably a normal girl until she was confined into this bizarre world.

Years back, when they had a forum on their "preparing daughters" website, Sarah moderated that board. Suddenly, Sarah made the announcement that there would be no more talk of "hope chests", which are drawers young fundie maidens have to keep items collected during their singlehold to take to their marriage home.

Sarah said the reason was because talk of hope chests make girls who have not yet been "called" to marry yet feel bad. Sarah also stated that God did not call all young girls to marry, and we should all prepare for that as well. Therefore, hope chests thwarts God's will. This was about the time when Sarah was....23? 24? I kind of figured it was at an age when Sarah was feeling very upset and frustrated with her single status. To hear all that chatter from much younger girls about marriage must have left a horrible taste in her mouth. Her parents probably convinced her to get rid of the annoying premarriage chatter, saying it was ungodly or whatnot, to make her feel better.

I get the impression the Maxwell parents are actively or consciously preventing Sarah from marriage. It's their stubbornness in the belief of their own superiority and holiness that has caused this action, and they are too arrogant to see that. They don't realize their restrictive lifestyle is preventing their children from finding spouses. They don't realize their choices are what's harming them. Instead, they believe they are living by the word of God, and everything will fall in line as God intended.

I felt bad for Sarah back then. I still feel bad for her now. I'm a secular, liberal unfeminine man-girl per Daddy Maxwell and I'm getting married before his oldest daughter.

[NurseNell]

Years back, when they had a forum on their "preparing daughters" website, Sarah moderated that board. Suddenly, Sarah made the announcement that there would be no more talk of "hope chests", which are drawers young fundie maidens have to keep items collected during their singlehold to take to their marriage home.

I had a hope chest and so did lots of my friends. None of us were even close to being fundie.

Nell

[Hane]

As fundiefan said, here's how it'd play in a normal family--

Abby: Can we go see the chipmunks again?

Nathan: Sure, honey--we'll go back there tomorrow.

-or-

Sorry, honey--we'll be headed somewhere else.

Just a simple, polite request with a simple, polite answer--no douchey patriarchal godbaggery needed.

[gustava]

Steve and Teri met in college chemistry class.

I'm speechless.

[kpmom]

Maybe no one wants to marry Sarah or the other Maxwells because they are so repressed with the whole 'idols' thing that they don't naturally show emotion or interest in anything. Even fundy men would want a wife with some interests and personality.

Didn't someone here post a link to a Michael Pearl (of all people) article taking a shot at (we were pretty sure) the Maxwells and their isolated lifestyle. He didn't name names, but he gave an example of a family of 8 (!!) with mostly adult children, all living at home and wondering why they're not married. According to Pearl, men aren't interested in the women in this "fictitious" family because there's no spark, or liveliness in them.

Much as it grieves me to agree with Pearl on anything ...

ETA: The Pearls and the Maxwells did know each other once upon a time. According to the Wayback Machine, Debi guest wrote a Corners back in the 90's, and Teri and Steve quoted them in some early Corners.

[tabitha2]

A regular fundie guy is going to want a girl like Priscilla Keller or Jill Duggar.They enjoy their lives,they have a spark of life from being able to go places and see people and things and have real friends that totally is absent in the Maxwells.Even if they are VF or ATI,normal young fundie girls try to live in that world to the best of their ability.Sarah and her sisters just exist.

[MissNomer]

Years back, when they had a forum on their "preparing daughters" website, Sarah moderated that board. Suddenly, Sarah made the announcement that there would be no more talk of "hope chests", which are drawers young fundie maidens have to keep items collected during their singlehold to take to their marriage home.

Sarah said the reason was because talk of hope chests make girls who have not yet been "called" to marry yet feel bad. Sarah also stated that God did not call all young girls to marry, and we should all prepare for that as well. Therefore, hope chests thwarts God's will. This was about the time when Sarah was....23? 24? I kind of figured it was at an age when Sarah was feeling very upset and frustrated with her single status. To hear all that chatter from much younger girls about marriage must have left a horrible taste in her mouth. Her parents probably convinced her to get rid of the annoying premarriage chatter, saying it was ungodly or whatnot, to make her feel better.

I get the impression the Maxwell parents are actively or consciously preventing Sarah from marriage. It's their stubbornness in the belief of their own superiority and holiness that has caused this action, and they are too arrogant to see that. They don't realize their restrictive lifestyle is preventing their children from finding spouses. They don't realize their choices are what's harming them. Instead, they believe they are living by the word of God, and everything will fall in line as God intended.

I felt bad for Sarah back then. I still feel bad for her now. I'm a secular, liberal unfeminine man-girl per Daddy Maxwell and I'm getting married before his oldest daughter.

Yeah, I feel really really badly for Sarah. Her entry about waiting for an answer from the Lord just made me so sad for her. She's obviously desperate to get married, but it seems that at this point it's unlikely that she ever will. How cruel of her parents to deny her that.

[VodouDoll]

Steve thinks that he can just keep shuffling Sarah to and from the nursing home, and at some point the Lord will drop a Godly Young Patriarch in their laps for her. After all, he's Steve Maxwell and he's praying about it. What could possibly be missing from that plan?

Check out the photo of Sarah holding Abby in this entry: titus2.com/blog/index.php/2011/09/02/thursdays-hike/. She really looks like her mother from that angle. And speaking of her mother, is Teri smiling in any of the pictures from that day? That poor woman. She looks so miserable all the time, even surrounded by her grinning family in the middle of nature. She claims the Lord has long since cured her depression, but it doesn't seem like keeping obsessive lists of her sins and taking vitamins worked a permanent fix. She looks like she needs medicine.

[YPestis]

I had a hope chest and so did lots of my friends. None of us were even close to being fundie.

Nell

I was referring to the usage of it in the context of the preparing daughters board. I didn't want it to confuse their usage with anyone else's. The term "hope chest" is regional and other parts of the country calls it something else.

[NurseNell]

I was referring to the usage of it in the context of the preparing daughters board. I didn't want it to confuse their usage with anyone else's. The term "hope chest" is regional and other parts of the country calls it something else.

I grew up on the east coast, have lived in the deep south, and live now in the midwest. The term hope chest has been used in all of these areas. The best hope chests are made by Lane.

Nell

[allyisyourpally5]

I seem to remember somebody asking, in the first coutship entry for Anna and Chris (women first, HA!) how they had met. Steve replied to the comment "by God's grace"- implying yes, it is literally a case of God will drop the wanted spouse onto the family member, they do not need to make an effort to find them.

Personally, I think one of the reasons they are running dry on people who want to host a conference is not only that they do the same seminars each time and it's old. But that, maybe many loyal followers and other christian homeschoolers are thinking "if we follow this lifestyle, our children will still be with us at 30!" I do not have children, but I want children one day, and even now before they even exist my dream for them is to find that special someone and be happy, and I think most families want the same, and can see the Maxwell way of life is clearly not leading to that.

[Justme]

Sarah's singlehood reminds me of a "story". A man was shipwrecked. He prayed to God to rescue him. First a boat stops, the man didn't get on, next a plane lands, the man still refuses to get on, next a helpcopter lands, the man still refuses. He kept praying to God. God finally said, I've sent you a boat, plane and helicopter, what more do you want??? The moral is sometimes God uses very earthly, worldly item to answer prayers.

Steve is 60 years old. I sure hope he's a "backup" plan for his daughters. How incredibly sad to be raised that marriage and motherhood is your entire "worth" as a woman. Then to have that "held back".... :(

[johnhugh]

Just looking at an old Maxwell post about their house move with Christopher.

http://wwwDOT.titus2.com/blog/index.php/2009/03/

from 2009. How it is written I still cannot work all the facts out, though I have had a glass of wine or two. :dance:

The first snark is " He committed it to prayer, and we were all surprised when he said he felt the Lord told him no. We couldn’t understand it, because it was a great house, at a price he easily could afford. But we rested in the seemingly strange fact that the Lord said no." He maybe thought NO! Escape!!

but the classic is the Reversal house:

"» Since the house is a REVERSED plan from the old house, several things have happened. For example, you’re backing out the door with a box, and you reach for the door handle, and you can’t find it. Oops. It’s on the other side."

:roll: Rong room darling! :lol:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

As fundiefan said, here's how it'd play in a normal family--

Abby: Can we go see the chipmunks again?

Nathan: Sure, honey--we'll go back there tomorrow.

-or-

Sorry, honey--we'll be headed somewhere else.

Just a simple, polite request with a simple, polite answer--no douchey patriarchal godbaggery needed.

Exactly. Heck, I could even see a "well, we need to ask the entire group tomorrow over breakfast" if they were determined to act as a single group, but it would be about asking OTHER HUMANS, and learning about compromising/negotiating in the group of HUMANS.

The whole "God as Santa Claus" thing just creeps me out. Though, if you think about it, it kinda explains some of the twee prayers we see on the Maxwell site, where they're so certain that God is granting their every small desire.

"Godbaggery" indeed! I'll have to reuse that one... :D

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Personally, I think one of the reasons they are running dry on people who want to host a conference is not only that they do the same seminars each time and it's old. But that, maybe many loyal followers and other christian homeschoolers are thinking "if we follow this lifestyle, our children will still be with us at 30!" I do not have children, but I want children one day, and even now before they even exist my dream for them is to find that special someone and be happy, and I think most families want the same, and can see the Maxwell way of life is clearly not leading to that.

This too. Quite frankly, both the Maxwells and the Botkins are going to damage their "brand" if they leave things at the status quo for too much longer.

[ChunkyBarbie]

Didn't someone here post a link to a Michael Pearl (of all people) article taking a shot at (we were pretty sure) the Maxwells and their isolated lifestyle. He didn't name names, but he gave an example of a family of 8 (!!) with mostly adult children, all living at home and wondering why they're not married. According to Pearl, men aren't interested in the women in this "fictitious" family because there's no spark, or liveliness in them.

Much as it grieves me to agree with Pearl on anything ...

ETA: The Pearls and the Maxwells did know each other once upon a time. According to the Wayback Machine, Debi guest wrote a Corners back in the 90's, and Teri and Steve quoted them in some early Corners.

Wow! You know it is bad, when even the Pearls can recognize that you have fucked up your kids.

[demgirl]

Didn't clibbyjo and demgirl say after going to the Maxwell conference that the whole family is just kind of blank? Like there's nothing going on behind their eyes? I can't see a man wanting to marry a woman like that, who just vacantly goes through life, not wanting anything or enjoying anything or thinking anything, just waiting for him to tell her what she should do and who she should be.

And, of course, it goes without saying that any man who would want a wife like that (like, oh, I don't know, Steve Maxwell, for example) is a TOTAL CREEPER.

That was very much my person take on most of them, most noteably Sarah, Mary and Anna. Joseph has a bit of spark, as does Steve, oddly. Teri has some intelligence in her eyes even thought she's a bit zombie-like. The "girls" i.e. the daughters are just -- flat. There's no spark, no light, almost no personality whatsoever. Maybe it was just the situation, but that was my read on the girls.

[skankbiscuit]

I truly feel for Sarah. She seems like such a warm, giving person. She is the one always baking special things for birthdays, etc. Steve is so cruel to keep her under his control. :x