10 Shraders in Zambia and counting...

[anjulibai]

Ahh, but they don't. They teach exactly what John teaches. I checked their statements of faith. He actually mentions the Bible colleges on his Team Zambia page and talks about the hundreds of pastors they have trained and the hundreds of churches they have started. John doesn't have a leg to stand on when saying he is needed in Zambia. And the people who support him were too caught up in his speeches about how "God called him to save Zambia" that they didn't do any research to see if Zambia needed John.

One of the ones he wouldn't approve of is a Church of Christ Bible College. But they require all the people entering their missionary three year program to demonstrate that they have gifts(which sounds like skills) that would make them capable of serving in the mission field. Also, all the wives have to be trained to be missionaries and they also require this:

All students are training agriculture. This training involves use of drip-irrigation, crop rotation, compost, marketing produce, etc. In addition, students are trained in nutrition and food-preparation. The intent is that students will be empowered to feed themselves, but will also be able what they have learned so others will be able to better provide for their families. Although all students are training in agriculture, each student is also given training in one or two other skills: auto mechanics, shoe repair, construction, welding, plumbing, bicycle repair, small business skills (for setting up small grocery or hardware stores), sewing, etc.

COC is Pentecostal, right? Wasn't John super rude to the Pentecostal pastors he met in Burundi? And this was after they had been very polite to him?

Interesting. There really, truly is no need for him there. I wonder why he chose Zambia, out of the entirety of Africa?

I do know he'd been rude to a pastor over there, but I don't remember what how they reacted to him.

[OkToBeTakei]

Interesting. There really, truly is no need for him there. I wonder why he chose Zambia, out of the entirety of Africa?

I do know he'd been rude to a pastor over there, but I don't remember what how they reacted to him.

Simples. Just google safest then most dangerous countries in Africa. Suffice to say this would be 'Missionary' is not willing to die for his cause :lol:

Kuoni and Virgin do some really nice 5 star vacations to Zambia. Popular destination from Europe.

[Curious]

I don't get the impression that either Josh or David are interested in having babies every 17 months for the entirety of their wives fertility either. This puts them another step above John, IMO. I think Josh and Anna may end up having a relatively large family by "normal" standards because she wants that, but I would be surprised if the Pecan Duo goes past 4 or so.

[formergothardite]

Zambia is a safe country where the people are already converted and will be nice to him in hopes that they can get money and supplies from him. I also wonder if he sees himself as some modern day David Livingstone. When I was growing up IFB Livingstone was praised as this great missionary and I'm sure John sees him that way. It wasn't until I was an adult and read about him on my own that I realized he was pretty much a failure. At least he had the goal of fighting slavery, which is more than John has, but Livingstone only managed to convert one person in all his years in Zambia and even that person is a little iffy on the conversion. Livingstone's wife died of malaria, his kids had a hard life, his helpers abandoned him like crazy because he was such a poor leader and apparently was extremely moody and flipped out if anyone dared to suggest his plans might not work.

[SoSoNosy]

CofC isn't Pentecostal.

I can't add much to this conversation, but I do know that part.

[LittleOleMe]

Simples. Just google safest then most dangerous countries in Africa. Suffice to say this would be 'Missionary' is not willing to die for his cause :lol:

Kuoni and Virgin do some really nice 5 star vacations to Zambia. Popular destination from Europe.

John isn't willing to die but he sure seems okay with the idea that his children might. Maybe he thinks the martyrdom would be really beneficial to him, which is pretty sick and disturbing.

I also agree that PT won't go far beyond four children. I'm surprised he's already having a second.

[shraderfriend]

I just haven't seen the horrible mistreatment you all speak of. As for Esther being a stay at home mom, many moms are and do a great job at it. My wife stays at home while I work, but has done some things for money from home on the side. She is smarter than me, that's for sure and shows more wisdom a lot of the time, maybe all of the time and she just lets me think its me on occasion. But when we had our first child, we felt it was best for her to stay with her. I am not sure how Esther staying at home is a sign of Johns inability to support a family.

John has always worked jobs to support them until he started the mission prep. You all mention the need for paying off cars, houses etc when he began his deputation. That would tell me he had decent income and credit for both at least up until he felt God leading to Zambia. His kids are healthy and happy children. Maybe he did not have the amount of income many of you believe is sufficient, but that could be a different number for everyone that could be argued.

I do like a lot of your thoughts about White Americans going to save the world. I do think it is overdone in a lot of places. Honestly, I think it is time some of these under developed countries start sending people to train the churches here. They have a much better understanding and concept of family, community and unconditional love in most cases. One of my favorite saying I heard once that has stuck with me is "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach". There are way too many of the latter in churches here.

[Peas n carrots]

I see Shrader's choice of being Zambia very telling - In theory it may be easier to convert someone to another flavor of Christianity than from another belief system.

[formergothardite]

Shrader Friend, you seem to be avoiding the addressing direct instances that people bring up about how he neglects his children. He put them in a van with children who should be in car seats and boosters seats not in them and the ones who are in car seats they are not properly installed because John has crammed a gutter into the van making it impossible for them to installed properly. He also had a fan rigged up, hanging from the roof of the van directly in front of a child making it so that even a small accident would slam it into that child's head. Are you saying that this is treating children as if they are precious gifts from God?

While driving his children around in this death trap he then foolishly takes pictures with his phone while speeding down the highways during bad weather. Again, is this treating children as if they are precious gifts from God or is it treating them as if they are disposable?

There is no way that these children can be receiving a proper education while being crammed in a pop-up camper, constantly uprooted to travel for deputation, and the woman who is supposed to be teaching them is either constantly pregnant or just given birth. Denying your children a proper education so that you can travel the country for missions is not treating them as if they are precious gifts from God.

Then there was all the things with the vaccines and malaria medication that he was not sure if he was even going to give his children. It cost too much, or something like that.

I will have to go back and check, but the instances I mentioned with people buying him a house, paying off his midwife bills, buying him a van, giving him food all happened BEFORE he decided to become a missionary. When he decided to become a missionary he sold off the house that people had bought for him.

Lots of us here are stay at home mothers. Some are stay at home fathers. Nobody has a problem with that. But the point is, with their belief system Esther doesn't have a choice to go get a job and put her children in public school even if she wanted to. She isn't really choosing to be a SAHM if she is told that is the only choice she can make and any other is a sin.

You write a lot but avoid addressing specific problems that people bring up. I suspect it is because you can't defend the racism that John has shown. You can't defend him bragging about how the starvation of people in Africa is going to help him lose weight. You can't defend how he treats his children. You can't even begin to address the issues that people have brought up about him going to Zambia. When you look at the facts, this is a massive waste of money. Zambia doesn't need John. Zambia could have used the money spent on sending him over there and supporting his family for the years he has been on deputation. This is about helping John, not about helping Zambia.

I think you are avoiding addressing these things because on part you don't want to admit that you and so many others threw money and support at John without researching if Zambia needed a person like that or what sort of a person John is.

[formergothardite]

I do like a lot of your thoughts about White Americans going to save the world. I do think it is overdone in a lot of places. Honestly, I think it is time some of these under developed countries start sending people to train the churches here. They have a much better understanding and concept of family, community and unconditional love in most cases. One of my favorite saying I heard once that has stuck with me is "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach". There are way too many of the latter in churches here.

I honestly don't get what you mean by this paragraph. Is this your way of admitting we are right and John has absolutely no business going to Zambia to "teach" them?

I really hate that saying. It is so insulting to teachers. Yes, people like John to can't do anything here will pretend to be a teacher and manage to sucker lots of IFB churches into giving him money because none of them bother to do any research, but most teachers are wonderful people who know what they are doing.

[bumblebee]

I think he's there so he can rock up at a few churches, take pictures with smiling locals next to a cross and pretend to himself and everyone who have him money, that he's "making a difference".

And/or that he's so arrogant and racist that he thinks his special flavour of American Fundamentalism is the only way to Christ, even if the are already Bible Colleges preaching very similar theology training local people to better serve their own country.

Edit: Or basically what Formergothardite said.

[LittleOleMe]

Two thing: no one ever said that Esther staying home was a sign of John's inability to provide for him family. Plenty of the people here are stay at home parents and would never make that accusation. What was said - what I said - was that she wasn't allowed to do anything but stay home. Some women want to be stay at home moms and that's fine. The problem is when they don't have a choice.

Secondly, having a mortgage (I though debt was evil?) and a car payments means absolutely nothing. Prior to the crash, it was relatively easy to get those things. People lied about their credit and banks did nothing to verify anything they told them. So it's quite possible - and quite probable - that John was living way beyond his means and when the crash came and his payments soared and/or his credit cards were shut off, he was screwed and needed the help, like so many other people in this country.

[apple1]

I am not sure how Esther staying at home is a sign of Johns inability to support a family.

John has always worked jobs to support them until he started the mission prep. You all mention the need for paying off cars, houses etc when he began his deputation. That would tell me he had decent income and credit for both at least up until he felt God leading to Zambia. His kids are healthy and happy children. Maybe he did not have the amount of income many of you believe is sufficient, but that could be a different number for everyone that could be argued.

You must have missed reading comprehension in school. Nobody here has a problem with SAH mothers. Most of us have a big problem with kids being forced to live (for longer than a temporary vacation) in a popup camper or some church's basement.

I have no clue how you can even begin to make a judgment on the happiness of his kids. I might be old now, but I clearly remember being a kid, and being able to find a private space, at least on occasion, was absolutely necessary to my own happiness.

[uber frau]

Shrader Friend, you seem to be avoiding the addressing direct instances that people bring up about how he neglects his children. He put them in a van with children who should be in car seats and boosters seats not in them and the ones who are in car seats they are not properly installed because John has crammed a gutter into the van making it impossible for them to installed properly. He also had a fan rigged up, hanging from the roof of the van directly in front of a child making it so that even a small accident would slam it into that child's head. Are you saying that this is treating children as if they are precious gifts from God?

While driving his children around in this death trap he then foolishly takes pictures with his phone while speeding down the highways during bad weather. Again, is this treating children as if they are precious gifts from God or is it treating them as if they are disposable?

There is no way that these children can be receiving a proper education while being crammed in a pop-up camper, constantly uprooted to travel for deputation, and the woman who is supposed to be teaching them is either constantly pregnant or just given birth. Denying your children a proper education so that you can travel the country for missions is not treating them as if they are precious gifts from God.

Then there was all the things with the vaccines and malaria medication that he was not sure if he was even going to give his children. It cost too much, or something like that.

I will have to go back and check, but the instances I mentioned with people buying him a house, paying off his midwife bills, buying him a van, giving him food all happened BEFORE he decided to become a missionary. When he decided to become a missionary he sold off the house that people had bought for him.

Lots of us here are stay at home mothers. Some are stay at home fathers. Nobody has a problem with that. But the point is, with their belief system Esther doesn't have a choice to go get a job and put her children in public school even if she wanted to. She isn't really choosing to be a SAHM if she is told that is the only choice she can make and any other is a sin.

You write a lot but avoid addressing specific problems that people bring up. I suspect it is because you can't defend the racism that John has shown. You can't defend him bragging about how the starvation of people in Africa is going to help him lose weight. You can't defend how he treats his children. You can't even begin to address the issues that people have brought up about him going to Zambia. When you look at the facts, this is a massive waste of money. Zambia doesn't need John. Zambia could have used the money spent on sending him over there and supporting his family for the years he has been on deputation. This is about helping John, not about helping Zambia.

I think you are avoiding addressing these things because on part you don't want to admit that you and so many others threw money and support at John without researching if Zambia needed a person like that or what sort of a person John is.

This times eleventy.

On top of all of that, he's very quick to spend other ppl's money. He's great at justifying the things he wants as being things his mission needs. Even if we leave aside for a moment the fact that he has no legitimate reason to be in Zambia, the things he's asking for are ridiculous. He wants a new car (when second hand 'troupies' from the Gulf are affordable and reliable and parts aren't hard to find), he wants a plane so he can just up and go on a whim, and he wants a pilot's license. It's not that the mission (such as it is) couldn't easily find a way to do without those things, it's that John wants them and finds a way to justify them. He can't afford them in his American life, but by being a white man in deepest, darkest Africa he somehow needs and deserves them. And then to top it all off, he decides he needs to spend a couple of hundred bucks on vitamin supplements, a couple hundred more on a you beaut blender and a couple more fistfuls of cash on the fruit and veg he 'needs' for his juice fast. (I'm not anti-fruit and veg and I believe quality food should be high on a list of priorities, but it's a different matter altogether when he's feeding his kids low quality food because they can't afford it. If you can't afford to feed your kids, you can't afford to feed yourself, IMO-now that's a cheap way to loose weight John).

Yet another way he shows it's all just about himself being the star of the John-Shrader-Show.

[formergothardite]

Even if they are healthy over here, has John demonstrated that he is a doctor for them in Zambia so that they can receive regular medical check-ups(since Esther doesn't have a midwife I rather doubt he has planned for a doctor for his children), has he found a dentist for them so that they can get regular dental care(this is so important), does he have a plan for what will happen to them if he is injured and needs a hospital stay in Zambia or if they are injured?

These are questioned people should have asked before giving him money for a trip. I doubt anyone did, though. Kids are disposable.

[LittleOleMe]

You must have missed reading comprehension in school. Nobody here has a problem with SAH mothers. Most of us have a big problem with kids being forced to live (for longer than a temporary vacation) in a popup camper or some church's basement.

I have no clue how you can even begin to make a judgment on the happiness of his kids. I might be old now, but I clearly remember being a kid, and being able to find a private space, at least on occasion, was absolutely necessary to my own happiness.

I don't think they teach that at the SOTDRT

Has anyone thought of the possibility that this "friend" is actually John himself?? He sure is quick to say all sorts of good stuff while ignoring the bad stuff and avoiding any and all questions. Kinda sounds like John, without all the grifting.

[uber frau]

It's possible but this isn't John's style from what I've seen.

Besides, he's in Zambia. Shouldn't he be out looking for some sort of shelter for his blessings? Or finding some UN/RC/MSF vaccination program that might give those expensive vaccinations out for nothing or something?

[salex]

Just read his story about arriving.

The man is an idiot. He relied on the stewardesses (in his parlance, men are flight attendants and women are stewardesses) to talk him into the country without Visas (I'm sure he knew he needed the real thing, but live by playing dumb. But what struck me as evidence of idiocy was his not being able to get a key phone number without internet access after borrowing a phone from someone at the airport.

I have a smart phone with my itinerary on it, as well as printed out back up with all pertinent information when I fly to Dallas (roughly an hour flight), much less if I were going around the world. I can tell you, I don't have the personality to put up someone who is this ill prepared on the little things. I can't even imagine it.

I also read his recent blog posts as playing dumb to get his way.

"I didn't know about the visa requirements"

"I didn't know how to reach people / they didn't answer the phone, so I sat on the floor with my hat over my face."

"I didn't scope out a place to live on my previous trip or through people already here, so I am imposing on others to take me"

"Oh, the bus ride was scary"

[formergothardite]

I don't think it is John. When John did respond to a FB page talking about him he didn't sound like this. I think it is a fellow IFB and it never in a million years crossed his mind that the people in Zambia might have it together enough that they don't need John to come tell them how to plant churches and train pastors. He never thought to question John(or probably any other missionary) about if he was actually needed or if it would be wiser to send money to support the local Christians. He either never heard the racist things John said or he was so enamored with the idea that Zambia needed John that he found a way to justify John's racism, dehumanization of the people of Zambia, and lack of cultural sensitivity. He, like many fundamental Christians, didn't think too deeply about the impact John's lifestyle would have on his children.

So he came here, skimmed a little and couldn't get why we don't approve of Missionary John. And when faced with specific things he doesn't know how to address them because he has never thought about them and when he does he probably realizes we have a point and John behaves in ways that are not godly and are not defensible.

And this is why you shouldn't give money and support to someone just because they say God called them to the mission field.

Where is the blog post at? I'm not surprised things are going this poorly. John can't plan for shit. I would like to apologize to Zambia for inflicting this fool on them. Feel free to send him home as soon as possible.

[slickcat79]

Just read his story about arriving.

The man is an idiot.

John has met a "precious Zambian Brother" named Mbele who is helping him find a place to rent in Kafue, since Mbele's aunt and uncle live there. Shockingly, there is nothing available to house 10.5 people with no notice. John is leaning toward a nice place with a bunch of fruit trees and whatnot, but the landlord is not sure when the current tenants are moving. They also saw a place that is not finished yet, but Mbele is sure that if John gives the landlady 6 months rent, she will finish the place for them :lol: I'm sure there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that the landlady could be a relative of Mbele's.

In the meantime, John will have to find a "small house" to rent (somewhere?) and hope that one of those 2 places is available by the time the container arrives and the "2014 model" drops. Yes, he is still using that description for his next child.

[SPHASH]

He didn't get housing arranged before they all flew over there? What the everlasting fuck?

[countressrascal]

Just read his story about arriving.

The man is an idiot. He relied on the stewardesses (in his parlance, men are flight attendants and women are stewardesses) to talk him into the country without Visas (I'm sure he knew he needed the real thing, but live by playing dumb. But what struck me as evidence of idiocy was his not being able to get a key phone number without internet access after borrowing a phone from someone at the airport.

I have a smart phone with my itinerary on it, as well as printed out back up with all pertinent information when I fly to Dallas (roughly an hour flight), much less if I were going around the world. I can tell you, I don't have the personality to put up someone who is this ill prepared on the little things. I can't even imagine it.

I also read his recent blog posts as playing dumb to get his way.

"I didn't know about the visa requirements"

"I didn't know how to reach people / they didn't answer the phone, so I sat on the floor with my hat over my face."

"I didn't scope out a place to live on my previous trip or through people already here, so I am imposing on others to take me"

"Oh, the bus ride was scary"

DUMB ASS

I guess he was never a Boy Scout-"Be prepared"

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Too many kinds of stupid here to do justice too in one comment.

1. They don't need expensive vaccines--they're most likely anti-vax

2. Moving to a foreign country without doing any research

3. Trusting the first guy you meat "off the boat"

4. Paying anyone up-front in that region is called "giving a donation and never seeing them again."

5. Government regulations on who may live where? Ain't we still Amurikens then? We kin do what we want.

UGH! I was in Peace Corps and so stupid ex pats arrive in this region all the time. :cracking-up:

[countressrascal]

Too many kinds of stupid here to do justice too in one comment.

1. They don't need expensive vaccines--they're most likely anti-vax

2. Moving to a foreign country without doing any research

3. Trusting the first guy you meat "off the boat"

4. Paying anyone up-front in that region is called "giving a donation and never seeing them again."

5. Government regulations on who may live where? Ain't we still Amurikens then? We kin do what we want.

UGH! I was in Peace Corps and so stupid ex pats arrive in this region all the time. :cracking-up:

Agreed- I do medical missions in this area (2-3 times a year), just got back about 10 days ago, I have first hand experience with stupid people like John, their comment is always "Jesus called me to become a missionary and save these people" My come back "He also gave you a brain and common sense why don't you start using it!"

I thought that he was part of IFB mission organization? They should of have helped him prepare better. :wtf:

[Jessica]

I'm certain they are anti-vaccine. This is the woman who believes radiation from Japan attached to her electrolytes and stalled her labor. Why wouldn't she believe the anti-vaccine lies?