10 Shraders in Zambia and counting...

[thoughtful]

He didn't get housing arranged before they all flew over there? What the everlasting fuck?

My reaction was, "He didn't get housing arranged before they all flew over there? No surprise."

The man is consistent in his assholery, you have to give him that. :roll:

[nokidsmom]

Good grief, for someone who was talking about going to Zambia for what, 2 years (don't read the blog because it makes me stabby) and he is this unprepared? No housing lined up? No visa? Not having key contacts?

What the hell? What's going to happen if one of his non vaxxed kids gets sick? Or the whole lot of them? Or when Esther has her baby or FSM forbid, has pregnancy complications? He's going to absolutely useless if there's some kind of emergency.

This is not going to end well.

[formergothardite]

Despite knowing how dumb and unprepared John is, I still expected him to have at least some housing worked out and have contacts. Instead he bumbles off the plane, nowhere for his kids to stay and trusts the first person he meets. :angry-banghead: :cray-cray: He is going to crash faster than I expected.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Soooooo he got a plane, but didn't sort out the most important parts of moving to a different country (visas and a home). Idiot.

He is far stupider than I thought. And I bet he gets scammed, as he is trusting enough to trust the first person he meets in a strange country, when he hasn't even got a feel for the area and what kind of people are generally safe to trust.

[slickcat79]

I wonder if he's seen his plane yet. It was such an amazing deal, after all :whistle:

[nellautumngirl]

Oh God, he is going to run out of money, and then what? I don't think the people in Zambia will be as gullible as American fundamentalists and give him money. I hope for his family's sake he doesn't get himself mixed up in anything and get himself killed :?

[Burpies]

I have been faithfully reading this thread, and it never even occurred to me that his bozo would go through the trouble of acquiring a plane and new troopie, but not secure housing for his 8 children and heavily pregnant wife!! Wt ever loving fuck?? I mean, the non vaxing, no malaria meds, not getting the visas in a timely or appropriate manner, but no housing???? What the fuck did he think was going to happen when he got off the plane? Did he think the ignorant and uneducated Zambians were going to fall at his godly white feet and trip over themselves to house him and his family??? I mean, I would think it would be hard to find housing for a family of that size anywhere and it would be a priority to ensure when his heavily pregnant wife and 8 children disembark exhausted and hungry from an umpteen hour plane ride, they would have a secure place to go to wash up, nap/sleep, and adjust a bit. But look who I'm talking about....this is a man who had his 7 children living in a pop up camper for however long. It is glaringly apparent John doesn't give two shits about anybody but himself. What a douche.

[Justme]

Is his blog public? If someone wrote this as a fiction story, no one would EVER believe it! You just can't make this shit up! :roll:

[snarkopolis]

The people of Zambia (in particular the ones in the area where John and his family are) would like to thank all the IBF families who donated money to John so that he could redistribute it :lol: in the local economy. Mbele's ? family, er, aunty, would REALLY like to thank him for renting her unfinished house and paying for the finishing. Because CASH is ALWAYS good, ya know. Or as Barnum Bailey said, There's one born every minute. Welcome to the Dark Continent JohnAsshole

[Guest]

I'm certain they are anti-vaccine. This is the woman who believes radiation from Japan attached to her electrolytes and stalled her labor. Why wouldn't she believe the anti-vaccine lies?

Hahaha I always forget about this incident, then it makes me chuckle every time I read about it again. Is it weird that I've been following this family for 3 babies now? Or weirder that they've had nearly 3 babies in the time I've been following them? Hmm...

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Ahh, but they don't. They teach exactly what John teaches. I checked their statements of faith. He actually mentions the Bible colleges on his Team Zambia page and talks about the hundreds of pastors they have trained and the hundreds of churches they have started. John doesn't have a leg to stand on when saying he is needed in Zambia. And the people who support him were too caught up in his speeches about how "God called him to save Zambia" that they didn't do any research to see if Zambia needed John.

One of the ones he wouldn't approve of is a Church of Christ Bible College. But they require all the people entering their missionary three year program to demonstrate that they have gifts(which sounds like skills) that would make them capable of serving in the mission field. Also, all the wives have to be trained to be missionaries and they also require this:

All students are training agriculture. This training involves use of drip-irrigation, crop rotation, compost, marketing produce, etc. In addition, students are trained in nutrition and food-preparation. The intent is that students will be empowered to feed themselves, but will also be able what they have learned so others will be able to better provide for their families. Although all students are training in agriculture, each student is also given training in one or two other skills: auto mechanics, shoe repair, construction, welding, plumbing, bicycle repair, small business skills (for setting up small grocery or hardware stores), sewing, etc.

COC is Pentecostal, right? Wasn't John super rude to the Pentecostal pastors he met in Burundi? And this was after they had been very polite to him?

I haven't read ahead to see if anyone answered you but he did indeed have a problem with the Pentecostals over there. I remember it bothered me as I was raised in a charismatic church and I like them. I want up say that John was pretty cocky about it (like he thought: "my theology is better than yours, neener neener, you poor lost soul")

[SoybeanQueen]

This guy sounds like a train wreck and a waste of any church's money. That said, I know someone who was a missionary in Zambia. She married a man she met while there (who was from Zambia, not another missionary), so I've had some time to talk with someone who has lots of insight into the culture and religion.

According to him, while most do say they're Christian, it is not really the same as what people here consider Christianity. It's more like a hybrid of Christian symbols and indigenous religions. There's a lot of discussion of evil spirits and possession and other things that are probably not OK with whatever churches are supporting the Shrader fellow.

Still doesn't sound like Shrader has any business being there, but I can see why some churches would consider Zambia a country in need of "proper" churching.

My friend and her husband also have a lot of insight into what actually happens with the Christmas shoeboxes and other well-meaning operations funded by westerners. Nowadays, if someone isn't going for a medical mission or something specialized, I don't fund them.

Someone else I know recently asked for funding for a mission trip that was only going around in another country to "build relationships" and share the gospel. Umm, you want me to give you thousands of dollars to go chat with someone who has no home or shoes?

[Trynn]

This guy sounds like a train wreck and a waste of any church's money. That said, I know someone who was a missionary in Zambia. She married a man she met while there (who was from Zambia, not another missionary), so I've had some time to talk with someone who has lots of insight into the culture and religion.

According to him, while most do say they're Christian, it is not really the same as what people here consider Christianity. It's more like a hybrid of Christian symbols and indigenous religions. There's a lot of discussion of evil spirits and possession and other things that are probably not OK with whatever churches are supporting the Shrader fellow.

Still doesn't sound like Shrader has any business being there, but I can see why some churches would consider Zambia a country in need of "proper" churching.

My friend and her husband also have a lot of insight into what actually happens with the Christmas shoeboxes and other well-meaning operations funded by westerners. Nowadays, if someone isn't going for a medical mission or something specialized, I don't fund them.

Someone else I know recently asked for funding for a mission trip that was only going around in another country to "build relationships" and share the gospel. Umm, you want me to give you thousands of dollars to go chat with someone who has no home or shoes?

Well, of they were honest about it, I'd consider it. It would probably help the person learn so much.

[Curious]

Has anyone thought of the possibility that this "friend" is actually John himself?? He sure is quick to say all sorts of good stuff while ignoring the bad stuff and avoiding any and all questions. Kinda sounds like John, without all the grifting.

We can say, with confidence, that Shraderfriend is not John.

[Curious]

John has met a "precious Zambian Brother" named Mbele who is helping him find a place to rent in Kafue, since Mbele's aunt and uncle live there. Shockingly, there is nothing available to house 10.5 people with no notice. John is leaning toward a nice place with a bunch of fruit trees and whatnot, but the landlord is not sure when the current tenants are moving. They also saw a place that is not finished yet, but Mbele is sure that if John gives the landlady 6 months rent, she will finish the place for them :lol: I'm sure there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that the landlady could be a relative of Mbele's.

In the meantime, John will have to find a "small house" to rent (somewhere?) and hope that one of those 2 places is available by the time the container arrives and the "2014 model" drops. Yes, he is still using that description for his next child.

Those poor children (and Esther) really don't stand a chance :( I really fear for Esther giving birth over there, given the problems she had last time. She will be under so much stress and worse conditions (who thought that would be possible). If something happens to her, those kids will be in so much trouble. It's heartbreaking to even think about any of this stuff.

I still can't believe the Kellers or someone didn't try to stop him taking Esther and the kids :(

[marmalade]

Is his blog public? If someone wrote this as a fiction story, no one would EVER believe it! You just can't make this shit up! :roll:

No, his Facebook is friends/followers only. He locked it down after reading about himself on Pickles and Hairspray (where he posted a hilarious rebuttal and blocked every name he saw there from his wall).

This is an even more inauspicious beginning than I anticipated. He made it sound as if he had the visas in hand. So it's great that his kids are so well-behaved on the plane, but he doesn't have the foresight to line up a place to live? Because it can't be said enough...what the FUCK is he thinking? :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

He's going to get bilked out of all the money that he bilked from others. Unfortunately, his family will be the ones who truly suffer. Especially Esther, when the baby is coming and there's no one to deliver it safely. The wife and kids are just means to an end for him.

Agree this is not going to end well, but I guess that's more martyrs for John to use in future grifting spiels. Words cannot express how much I despise this person. I can't call him a man. A real man would never do this to people he supposedly loves.

[shraderfriend]

A lot gets posted on here each day. Wow.

John called me today and we spoke for a short time. Mainly wanted to see if I got his emails and so forth.

I would like to let you all know not to put Josh Duggar to high above John in the caring for his family dept. I can not speak to the pecan thief whoever that is because I dont know him. But when Josh and Anna moved to DC, I and my family rented his house from grandma Duggar basically sight unseen in person. Plumbing was terrible and never worked in kitchen or bath in any part with a drain, the garage was dangerous and did not want to go in much less my kids, the house was filled with mold on all of the walls, not to mention the people who would show up when I was at work to try to meet a Duggar which was not pleasant for my family as you have no idea who it was. Oh, yes there was really no A/C either and the roof leaked. There were times I would have preferred a pop up trailer. We did not stay long. The only reason they have a nice place now is that his name got him a job. I like Josh and Anna, but just wanted add that.

I am not going to comment a lot on box fans in vans etc because I have not seen the pictures. All i can say it I would not have done that. As far as taking a picture while driving in a rain storm, again, I wouldn't do that, if you have a co-pilot up front, let them do it.

About the "racism" nothing you have written proves he is racist, It may prove he has a poor sense of humor and shouldn't have hit send without re-reading the joke to see how it looks or if it is funny.

Someone thought maybe I am john posting. Well no, I am a guy who grew up poor in California, living in poorly maintained houses in which some, when I was small, had dirt floors because the floors had caved in. I did not grow up in a Christian home, my parents both worked hard at their respective jobs, I went to public school and am the only high school grad in my family (class of 1994 woo hoo). I went stood in line in the 80's for boxes of govt cheese, white labeled cans of fruits and veggies and grew up in bad part of town. I was the white kid on the basketball team, the fat kid on the baseball team, and the poor kid in most everything. In high school my gpa was .87 my first 2 and 1/2 years then I got saved. My GPA was 3.0 my last 3 semesters and I made up many classes to find out on the last day of my senior year if I would graduate or not. I did. I have worked hard my whole life and have a wife and 4 children with one more soon. We have had many tough times financially but have also had good times as i have developed expertise in a certain field that I hate but can always go back to for a good paycheck anytime I want anywhere in the USA. I am also a preacher, that has been a missionary and pastor. I have made mistakes AND put the ministry ahead of my family before, thankfully never to much and my wife has always been there to help me re-focus. I am not John, I am just another loser with a family that is praying for John as he goes where he believes God wants him and has directed him.

Oh, earlier someone said that "going into debt is a sin" in the minds of the shraders. Where did that idea come from? I have never heard him or his dad say or teach that. Only that debt is a form of bondage that is good to avoid. The same with wives working. I have never heard it forbidden in them, but taught the opposite that there are times when the wife may need to help. Also someone mentioned public school as a sin, but it did not come from the Shraders. Oh yes and also the idea that dad has veto rights on a marriage, who said that in the shrader family? I have heard and seen them demonstrate that the father helps guide but ultimately the daughter will marry who she will marry, but the dad does not pick the groom as many seem to think.

What I have noticed here is that a lot of people on this site have seen people damaged by teachings or been damaged themselves and have presuppositions about anyone who appears to fit the mold (in their eyes) of those teachings that has been so damaging. The accusations I just mentioned that are often attributed to John, may be views of crazy people like the Pearls, Gothard, Maxwells, and the like but are not held by John to my knowledge.

I really appreciate this forum, because I like perspective that only comes from talking will all people of all backgrounds. I have developed and appreciation for your point of views about missions, churches, IFB and even about John. I can even see why you came to your conclusions based on the evidence that you have seen using Aristotelian logic. I just don't agree that the evidence proves your conclusions. We don't have all of the info to make a conclusive decision as Jesus teaches...

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

(Mat 21:28-31)

The people answering Jesus only came to the correct conclusion by Him revealing the entire story. If you viewed the incident and did not see what both sons did after leaving his father, you may conclude that the second son did correctly because you saw his response and maybe later went and saw that the work was done but never saw you did it, and in your mind think well of the wrong son in this instance.

You cannot know the character and love John may or may not have from a picture here and there and emails spread over a few years.

Thanks a lot and keep up your work, I like to think about it.

[Arete]

Someone on their side who monitors these threads needs to get a key piece of info to Ester: the location of the American embassy/nearest Consulate. Josh Duggar, I'm talking to YOU. You read here, I'm sure of it.

Your SIL and her children are in actual, mortal danger from their douchebag headship. Give her crucial info to save her life and get them back home when the consequences crash into the grifter.

[Jinderella]

Shrader Friend, I do appreciate your effort in coming here and debating us. However, for me this is not about John. Not about his bond with God, his dreams, his work, his financials. He is a free man and he can go where he pleases. And Esther too, she's a grown up woman. She is free to leave.

For me this is about his children. All of them. Not even about car seats. I find them very important, but I know a lot of people (not) using them wrong. It is about his children not getting any education (it just isn't possible in a pop-up camper with a pregnant mum and a baby sibling). It's about children not having a place to call home. It's about dragging children away from their family and country without arranging a place to sleep when they come of the plane. It is about a father "accepting" some of them may die and doing nothing about it.

I have children. They are my responsibility. They always come first. We made sacrifices for their health, their education, without even thinking about it. My husband and I would die to save their lives. Just like almost every other parent.

So please don't tell me John and Esther are good Godly people, because I don't care. Tell me their children are educated, have a bed to sleep in at night, have the food they need, the medical care they need. I would like to hear it. But I'm afraid you can't tell it, because it ain't so.

[socalrules]

So if you have a poor sense of humor, or if a joke is funny, then it isn't racism? Guess what, the joke isn't funny to the people that are the butt of the joke. As a minority I can tell you that I don't find jokes at my expense in regards to my ethnicity or cultural background funny.

Here is what I want to know, if John could not even plan ahead for housing, what are they going to do when Esther goes in to labor? Or did they even find a doctor or qualified midwife for prenatal care? Found the nearest hospital in case there is a problem with the delivery? Somehow I doubt this as planning for housing was not important. I am still wrapping my head around this because it never occurred to me to think about housing, one would assume accommodations had been made.

I also fail to see how allegedly renting Josh's crappy house shows John in a better light. I say allegedly because I am not convinced John's friend posting here is legit. Although neither Josh nor John is my cup of tea, I would still choose Josh becuase I wouldn't have to live a nomadic lifestyle and Josh does not seem to make potentially deadly decisions when it comes to his family. I could care less about the crappy rental.

[Arete]

Shraderfriend,

The evidence is in the housing situation, or lack thereof. He has a pregnant wife, eight children age 11 and under, and he did not arrange for them to have housing. They have been traveling on jets or transiting for at least 24 hours. He is the FATHER. It is his JOB to ensure his family's food and shelter, wherever they are.

Do you really believe that a man who does not secure the needs of his pregnant wife and minor children is in any position to relay the love of God to strangers?

[scc12]

I am wondering how the Kellers feel about their pregnant daughter and gkids in this situation? I can't imagine they agree? Mr Keller does seem more responsible than to do his own family the same way.

[scc12]

hey,isn't this fun?!Wheeeeee.... quite an adventure for John.and hey,that's all that matters,right?

poor Esther and the kids.

[nelliebelle1197]

I am a little confused as to why Shraderfriend would be friends with the Duggars enough to rent a house yet slam Gothard like this? Weirdness abounds.

[scc12]

I am a little confused as to why Shraderfriend would be friends with the Duggars enough to rent a house yet slam Gothard like this? Weirdness abounds.

yes I and edited my previous post about that bc I want to elaborate on it.

The conditions described are not legal.(mold on the walls,for example).Plumbing must be fixed and usable.Too many ppl under one roof...again,not legal in such a small house.(2 bed one bath).That violates fire standards.

We have all seen the show and know there was no mold on the walls.Anna was shown reg. using the bathroom sink and kitchen sink..and the infamous toilet birth...it works.

Plus,JB has $$$ and never would have allowed Josh and his gkids to live like that.I don't care for JB,but we did see the show where he redid the old house and brought it up to standards.He doesn't seem slack in that respect.esp. not where family is concerned.(more than I can say for John).

ETA: leaky roof.again,not legal.these are all basic things required to rent out a house.

And the biggie? JB is a businessman,NO way would he ever care to ruin his rep.and his name by renting out such a faulty place.(nor would he allow his mother to,who lives under his own roof).

Sry,you just ruined your credibility,shraderfriend.