10 Shraders in Zambia and counting...

[SPHASH]

I'm seriously worried about Esther. I'm afraid a difficult pregnancy or birth could kill her in Zambia.

And God forbid if Esther should die, more than likely she will be buried over there unless John got travel insurance to bring her back home, and I doubt Ma and Pa Keller and the rest of the family can afford to go over there for the funeral, comfort and help with the kids.

[SPHASH]

I just realized I spelled Shrader with a C. Could a mod please correct that? Thanx.

[formergothardite]

Don't forget his cultural insensitivity and outright racism he's displayed in the past. He hasn't bothered to learn about the culture of the place he claims to care about so much.

Yeah, he thought it was funny to act like the people over there are cannibals. Despite his claims that he is "African inside"(what does that even mean?) he sure acts like he is better than they are.

[thoughtful]

When I hear grifters like Shrader and Gil Bates described as lazy, I get it -- I think people are saying that they won't actually work to help support their children.

But I sometimes think words like dishonest, narcissistic and clueless might fit better than lazy.

I'm sad to say I know the general type (although I never met anyone as bad as they are). The people I knew who were like that didn't appear physically lazy, if you observed them in their daily lives. They didn't sit around all day with one hand in their waistband and the other clutching a beer.

They were full of nervous energy, bouncing here and there, with projects and ideas (most of which involved things others were expected to enthusiastically do for them), stories in which they were the hero/victim (and that everyone had to hear over and over), and self-created crises (from which others often had to save them). They were also often disorganized, flailing about very actively, but getting less done than an organized person would with half the effort.

I think people like Shrader come off, IRL, as very busy little bees. But they are busy building castles in the air, bustling all about on their cloud.

[Guest]

Someone said up thread that Zambia has a very large birth control campaign to try to decrease population growth. If that's the case, I can't imagine they'd be very excited about John traveling around preaching the Quiverfull message... I don't expect him to last longer than 2 years... Which, ironically, is how long their deputation lasted.

[formergothardite]

When I hear grifters like Shrader and Gil Bates described as lazy, I get it -- I think people are saying that they won't actually work to help support their children.

But I sometimes think words like dishonest, narcissistic and clueless might fit better than lazy.

I'm sad to say I know the general type (although I never met anyone as bad as they are). The people I knew who were like that didn't appear physically lazy, if you observed them in their daily lives. They didn't sit around all day with one hand in their waistband and the other clutching a beer.

They were full of nervous energy, bouncing here and there, with projects and ideas (most of which involved things others were expected to enthusiastically do for them), stories in which they were the hero/victim (and that everyone had to hear over and over), and self-created crises (from which others often had to save them). They were also often disorganized, flailing about very actively, but getting less done than an organized person would with half the effort.

I think people like Shrader come off, IRL, as very busy little bees. But they are busy building castles in the air, bustling all about on their cloud.

You are right. Lazy maybe isn't the word for him. John does dash around looking busy while not actually doing anything. I think that John will have an emotional crash when he gets to Zambia and there is no one there to catch him when his dream falls apart. And it is going to fall apart. He doesn't have the organized personality to pull something like this off.

[Ellimenopy]

It makes no sense to me either. Even Mormons, who hold family as such a central tenet of their faith and have a large missionary fund to support these sorts of ventures, only send young singles or older married couples whose children are grown.

I wonder if it's because in the Quiverfull world John and Esther has displayed their godliness and commitment to true Christian principles by having so many children, therefore they are qualified to spread the word to others?

When I was a Christian, I attended a very missionary-minded church that was also very supportive of huge families, and even they preached that if you were called to have more than two children that you were also called to be a pillar of the community here and take care of them. They would have never supported such an enormous waste of resources. I have no idea even what kind of churches John would have gotten to enable him. Even the most conservative ones that I attended or was aware of would not have condoned this. I find the whole exercise mind-boggling, even without considering his cultural insensitivity and lack of concrete skills to aid Zambia.

[Coconut Flan]

But I sometimes think words like dishonest, narcissistic and clueless might fit better than lazy

I think that describes him well. I don't see this having a good ending not at all. The only question is what tragedy will befall them and how long will it take.

[Ellimenopy]

I think that describes him well. I don't see this having a good ending not at all. The only question is what tragedy will befall them and how long will it take.

It's almost astounding all the bad things that they can get into, isn't it? I think the best we can hope for is that their visas are denied and they have to take up a collection for a hasty return to the states. If that happens, it still allows John to save some face, but it's also highly unlikely that anybody would give him money to return.

[RosyDaisy]

Lazy is a good word to describe John Shrader. Instead of getting a real job to support his growing family, he grifts supposedly for missionary trips. I'm still not convinced they have left the U.S. I think he's full of shit and hot air.

[scc12]

It sounds like they have left,but I can't see him coming back unless forced to.That would mean he would have to get a real job,and it doesn't sound like that's what he wants.

I also can't believe ppl have invested so much into this venture.It sounds like John is on a high from the adventure for now,but I suspect hard living will quickly quell that.It's not the US over there,and they won't have all the comforts that we have here.Esp. not for a large family.

[Curious]

3) Zambian government has a very strong family planning and condom usage program. Where ever you drive there are billboards, posters and flyers about how to use condoms and why. Along with family planning message, they are trying to get families in the cities to limit their family to 3-4 children.

I don't know exactly how to say what I'm trying to say so this may not be exactly clear :)

Since the Zambian governments position is birth control/family planning = good, won't he be essentially preaching against the govt? I realize it's probably not a law, but if the govt is putting a lot of money into trying to get people to reduce family size and use family planning methods and then some random dude from the US comes along and starts telling people NOT to listen to the govt because it's not Jesusy enough won't they (the govt) take a dim view of that. Particularly since he's not really bringing any other skills to the table AND he's bringing a lot of "mouths to feed" that will take resources away from native Zambians (with no intention of stopping the kid train himself).

I hope that sort of made sense.

[nellautumngirl]

When I hear grifters like Shrader and Gil Bates described as lazy, I get it -- I think people are saying that they won't actually work to help support their children.

But I sometimes think words like dishonest, narcissistic and clueless might fit better than lazy.

I'm sad to say I know the general type (although I never met anyone as bad as they are). The people I knew who were like that didn't appear physically lazy, if you observed them in their daily lives. They didn't sit around all day with one hand in their waistband and the other clutching a beer.

They were full of nervous energy, bouncing here and there, with projects and ideas (most of which involved things others were expected to enthusiastically do for them), stories in which they were the hero/victim (and that everyone had to hear over and over), and self-created crises (from which others often had to save them). They were also often disorganized, flailing about very actively, but getting less done than an organized person would with half the effort.

I think people like Shrader come off, IRL, as very busy little bees. But they are busy building castles in the air, bustling all about on their cloud.

That sounds exhausting, now I'm thankful I don't know people like that.

Poor Esther, she really got the bottom of the barrel husband-wise.

[16strong]

Out of curiosity, how old is Esther? I'm interested in knowing how many more children she might burden upon the country's resources. If she survives the lack of healthcare in Zambia, that is. :roll:

[Mama Mia]

When I hear grifters like Shrader and Gil Bates described as lazy, I get it -- I think people are saying that they won't actually work to help support their children.

But I sometimes think words like dishonest, narcissistic and clueless might fit better than lazy.

I'm sad to say I know the general type (although I never met anyone as bad as they are). The people I knew who were like that didn't appear physically lazy, if you observed them in their daily lives. They didn't sit around all day with one hand in their waistband and the other clutching a beer.

They were full of nervous energy, bouncing here and there, with projects and ideas (most of which involved things others were expected to enthusiastically do for them), stories in which they were the hero/victim (and that everyone had to hear over and over), and self-created crises (from which others often had to save them). They were also often disorganized, flailing about very actively, but getting less done than an organized person would with half the effort.

I think people like Shrader come off, IRL, as very busy little bees. But they are busy building castles in the air, bustling all about on their cloud.

That's a very apt description of some people I know. My sisters ex in particular. Full of grandiose schemes, but only if he was somehow, magically, the leader of it all.

[slickcat79]

Out of curiosity, how old is Esther? I'm interested in knowing how many more children she might burden upon the country's resources. If she survives the lack of healthcare in Zambia, that is. :roll:

Esther just turned 33. If her fertility holds up, she could easily have 4-5+ more children.

[16strong]

Esther just turned 33. If her fertility holds up, she could easily have 4-5+ more children.

Oh man. Seriously? She already has 8. How old was she when she got married?

[Jana814]

Esther just turned 33. If her fertility holds up, she could easily have 4-5+ more children.

Does anyone know how long they have been married.

[GeoBQn]

They will be married 13 years this November.

[Jana814]

They will be married 13 years this November.

Thanks for the info. How old is the oldest child.

[Peas n carrots]

This thread should be titled POISONWOOD BIBLE: LIVE!

[Guest]

They will be married 13 years this November.

Yes, I believe she was 20 when she got married. They marry them Keller girls young... Priscilla was practically an old maid. It always infuriates me how terrible Pa Keller was at picking out husbands for his daughters. Rebekah obviously got the best, followed by Anna. When Josh is in the top 1/2, you know things suck. I think David could potentially be cruel to Priscilla, but probably not cruel enough to drag her off to a developing country with no immunizations in her second trimester...

[Naga Viper]

This thread should be titled POISONWOOD BIBLE: LIVE!

I like this. Especially since I find the current title a little reminiscent of Ten Little Indians, which is unnerving considering the very real jeopardy John may be/probably is putting the family in. :?

Maybe it's just me, though.

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[NotALoserLikeYou]

I'm so sorry if I missed it before, but did John actually confirm they don't vaccinate their kids? I mean, one of the things anti vaxxers say is, "it's not like I live in Africa!" so....

[lilith]

This thread should be titled POISONWOOD BIBLE: LIVE!

I only hope the Shrader daughters turn out as educated and diverse as the Poisonwood girls. The thought of Esther going home to tend a flower garden and leaving John to go raving mad in the African bush is entertaining too.