10 Shraders in Zambia and counting...

[DarkAnts]

He brought plywood purchased Amerians= godly men in his mind. How could he let his children sleep on beds made with materials from ungodly men in africa.

[countressrascal]

I am still in shock that the container arrived. I can't believe that they shipped a washing machine over there, unless HonH has upgraded plumbing they are going to have issues.

I am glad that Ester saw a midwife since it has been over 8 weeks since they left US and she is about to deliver, she needs to understand what is going on, so they can have a safe and healthy delivery. They are the perfect example of people that should not be allowed to reproduce.

[slickcat79]

I am still in shock that the container arrived. I can't believe that they shipped a washing machine over there, unless HonH has upgraded plumbing they are going to have issues.

I am glad that Ester saw a midwife since it has been over 8 weeks since they left US and she is about to deliver, she needs to understand what is going on, so they can have a safe and healthy delivery. They are the perfect example of people that should not be allowed to reproduce.

I'm not totally sure that they shipped it, I think they were just waiting to get into "permanent" housing before trying to get one. Esther says "A precious family in America sacrificed and saved to help make this possible for us", so I guess John's public "prayer requests" about laundry got the response he was looking for. He did the plumbing work and hooked up the machine himself :?

I do wonder about some of the stuff that they may have shipped. Zambia runs on a different power supply than the US and has different plugs as well. John may have gotten converters, but it seems like it ultimately makes more sense to just buy electrical items that were designed to work over there.

[ThisOlGirl]

I've never lived overseas or even vacationed overseas, so I might be completely talking out of my ass here. If I was moving to another country, I would find out what I could and could not buy in country, then buy it there. It seems like it would be cheaper or at least less of a headache to do it that way. Of course there would be personal items that would need to be shipped (clothes, some furniture). But I guess when you've got a good racket going like Johnny does, money is no object.

[It'sFunToRun]

I've never lived overseas or even vacationed overseas, so I might be completely talking out of my ass here. If I was moving to another country, I would find out what I could and could not buy in country, then buy it there. It seems like it would be cheaper or at least less of a headache to do it that way. Of course there would be personal items that would need to be shipped (clothes, some furniture). But I guess when you've got a good racket going like Johnny does, money is no object.

It's well established that people are less responsible with money that is not theirs/that they did not earn. If John wants something he tells his groupies that he needs it to save souls and bam! new groupie, air plane, huge ass paper cutter... what incentive does he have to be careful with money? If the washing machine does not work, someone will buy him a new one. For the children.

[kunoichi66]

But what happened to the accordion? What happened to the accordion?!?

How did they smash the piano? Those things can withstand bomb blasts!

Come to think of it, why were they transporting a piano to Zambia in the first place? If I was moving to a foreign country I'd take my clarinet, not my piano!

[Trynn]

How did they smash the piano? Those things can withstand bomb blasts!

Come to think of it, why were they transporting a piano to Zambia in the first place? If I was moving to a foreign country I'd take my clarinet, not my piano!

I think it was a keyboard type piano rather than a real one. I do not think even John would try to take a wooden one to Zambia.

[uber frau]

Why is he so upset about the children's beds being broken anyway? Camping out in a trailer has been quite good enough for his precious quiver for the past few years. [\sarcasm]

[salex]

I think it was a keyboard type piano rather than a real one. I do not think even John would try to take a wooden one to Zambia.

They said it was a Yamaha acoustic piano. Some kind of hybrid.

[Howl]

Even though this may make your head begin spinning around on your neck like a bad horror movie, I'm a-gonna post it anyway because it has to do with Africa, ebola, missionaries, Geoffrey Botkin and Ann Coulter. (If admin thinks this post should go elsewhere, please move it).

Yes, Geoffrey Botkin calls out Ann Coulter over her view of Christians/Missionaries in Africa. Botkin uses ebola-survivor Kent Brantley as a springboard. The article is titled Cancel the Obituary

Ann thinks that all missionaries should stay in the US and fight the culture wars on the home front.

Botkin is still whining over that fact that Christians were not specifically invited into the process during the "reconstruction" of Iraq, because if they had, maybe Iraq would not be so darned Islamic. or something.

I also must say that I had no idea that Ann Coulter was anything but a venomous hard-right curmudgeon; however she seems to be a a venomous hard-core Christian right-wing curmudgeon. Who knew?

Anyway, interesting read in the context of this thread, if you can stomach one repellent fundamentalist/conservative calling out another about the role of missionaries.

I think Botkin is wrong on a few points relative to survivor stats from this epidemic (and many other things) -- although the death rate from ebola is staggering, survivors are not "rare".

Anyway, the crux paragraphs that relate to John:

Insincere Christians, on the other hand, should be ashamed of their pretention, and should get off the field of battle. I have met nationals in Africa and the Far East who have begged me to deliver this request to American churches: Stop sending silly short-term missionaries. They do far more harm than good on foreign soil. They confuse people, especially the young, who begin to believe Christianity and American pop culture are the same religion.

The difference between the true and the false is the difference between work and play. Brantly and Samaritan’s purse go where they go to work, to risk their lives, and to invest in people who are sincerely responsive.

However, I don't think that Geoff can quite wrap his mind around missionaries who go to assist and support with their skills and whose motivation is religious/spiritual, but whose goal is not religious conversion of the people they are working with--who may not be sincerely responsive. That is just not on his radar.

I also think Geoff Botkin is a pseudo-intellectual pretentious ass, but that's just me. Western Conservatory of the Arts & Sciences? Really?

Also hoping that Esther has a safe and very uneventful delivery of a very healthy baby.

[Palimpsest]

Even though this may make your head begin spinning around on your neck like a bad horror movie, I'm a-gonna post it anyway because it has to do with Africa, ebola, missionaries, Geoffrey Botkin and Ann Coulter. (If admin thinks this post should go elsewhere, please move it).

Yes, Geoffrey Botkin calls out Ann Coulter over her view of Christians/Missionaries in Africa. Botkin uses ebola-survivor Kent Brantley as a springboard. The article is titled Cancel the Obituary

Ann thinks that all missionaries should stay in the US and fight the culture wars on the home front.

Botkin is still whining over that fact that Christians were not specifically invited into the process during the "reconstruction" of Iraq, because if they had, maybe Iraq would not be so darned Islamic. or something.

I also must say that I had no idea that Ann Coulter was anything but a venomous hard-right curmudgeon; however she seems to be a a venomous hard-core Christian right-wing curmudgeon. Who knew?

Anyway, interesting read in the context of this thread, if you can stomach one repellent fundamentalist/conservative calling out another about the role of missionaries.

I think Botkin is wrong on a few points relative to survivor stats from this epidemic (and many other things) -- although the death rate from ebola is staggering, survivors are not "rare".

Anyway, the crux paragraphs that relate to John:

Insincere Christians, on the other hand, should be ashamed of their pretention, and should get off the field of battle. I have met nationals in Africa and the Far East who have begged me to deliver this request to American churches: Stop sending silly short-term missionaries. They do far more harm than good on foreign soil. They confuse people, especially the young, who begin to believe Christianity and American pop culture are the same religion.

The difference between the true and the false is the difference between work and play. Brantly and Samaritan’s purse go where they go to work, to risk their lives, and to invest in people who are sincerely responsive.

However, I don't think that Geoff can quite wrap his mind around missionaries who go to assist and support with their skills and whose motivation is religious/spiritual, but whose goal is not religious conversion of the people they are working with--who may not be sincerely responsive. That is just not on his radar.

I also think Geoff Botkin is a pseudo-intellectual pretentious ass, but that's just me. Western Conservatory of the Arts & Sciences? Really?

Also hoping that Esther has a safe and very uneventful delivery of a very healthy baby.

Thanks for that very interesting read and good summation! I can more than "stomach one repellent fundamentalist/conservative calling out another about the role of missionaries." I positively enjoy it. Let them squabble amongst themselves to distract them from the Great Commission!

Geoff Botkin is well-known to be careless with facts and twisting not-facts to suit his purpose. He's even better known for padding his resume. He is a complete charlatan and pseudo-intellectual and his own "mission trip" to convert New Zealand didn't work, of course. I still wonder exactly why he left NZ and came back to the States.

I agree with Botkin that the short-term voluntourism "mission" trips should stop -- but not for the same reasons.

Here is an old article on Botkin's background from Cindy K. undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008/12/who-is-geoffrey-botkin-vision-forum.html

ETA: Was the time Botkin claims he actually paid insurance for leading 12 men into dangerous parts of Africa a Hazardous Journey? :roll:

[Palimpsest]

They said it was a Yamaha acoustic piano. Some kind of hybrid.

I'd be willing to bet that John failed to lash down that enormous industrial paper cutter thing properly so it shifted in transit and smashed a lot of stuff. I hope the water purification unit got there safely. Wasn't John pricing washing machines in Lusaka a few weeks ago? I don't think that was in the container.

I suppose John still has the magic accordion even although he broke the keyboard. The proselytizing will go on.

Given that John has been in Zambia for nearly 3 months now, he doesn't seem to have accomplished much. He's tried to convert a few individuals (unsuccessfully so far), found housing, rented other housing, found a midwife, got the visas, gone into Lusaka to buy food several times, spent lots of money -- but that's about it. Lazy disorganized John's still playing at being a missionary and his donors may be wanting to see concrete evidence of progress soon.

[salex]

that's about it. Lazy disorganized John's still playing at being a missionary and his donors may be wanting to see concrete evidence of progress soon.

My personal opinion as to why he bought the unfinished house on the hill, even as it is further from people / his potential floci is because 1) he sees it as big enough to have a "church" without needin a seperate building. 2) he can spend countless hours fixing it up and showing the kids fixing it up. 3) he might be sick of being in a pop up trailer, so he craves space.

Mostly, I think it is a way to pad his messages home. "We added a wall in the church / house today. I offered my testimony to the laborers who were there, who were very receptive.

[kunoichi66]

I see! Thanks

They said it was a Yamaha acoustic piano. Some kind of hybrid.

Ah, if it was a keyboard or a hybrid (particularly Yamaha - they now use laminate as a soundboard, which would presumably cut down on durability) then that explains things.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I much as I LOVE snarking on John (and oh! do I ever!) I saw people come with high-priced USAID and similar jobs who packed about the same, had a fit when idiotic things like curtains didn't "fit" based on the measurements they were given back home, who couldn't live without a drier etc. I'd say he's about par for the course. Some people "get" going overseas, some don't. He's a douche though in so many other ways.

If you know anyone going abroad--share this.

1. Learn what it's called in the new country--makes customs way easier.

2. Before packing it, ask "What do people in [new country] use for [a towel, hot rollers, exercise ball--other crap no one really needs as well as basics like towels, sheets etc]

3. Make friends the easy way--buy local--yes you'll be ripped off but it'll be way less than shipping all that crap.

4. Stuff will be broken, stolen and just plain not work with the electrical converter you bought. Though it is way more expensive, buy stuff for the electrical current in that country.

You'll live just fine without taco shells, cake mix, Starbucks, [fill in the blank]

Note to John: You can't swing a dead cat in Africa (all the way back to David Livingston's day] without hitting a missionary. THEY know the story of salvation. They do. They just see you for the tool you are and are PLAYING YOU. :nenner:

[Palimpsest]

that's about it. Lazy disorganized John's still playing at being a missionary and his donors may be wanting to see concrete evidence of progress soon.

My personal opinion as to why he bought the unfinished house on the hill, even as it is further from people / his potential floci is because 1) he sees it as big enough to have a "church" without needin a seperate building. 2) he can spend countless hours fixing it up and showing the kids fixing it up. 3) he might be sick of being in a pop up trailer, so he craves space.

Mostly, I think it is a way to pad his messages home. "We added a wall in the church / house today. I offered my testimony to the laborers who were there, who were very receptive.

Agreed to all the above but you missed one:

4) It is further from a mosque so he doesn't have to drop to his knees and pray for the souls of heathens every time he hears that "creepy" Adhan.

[treemom]

My best friend is from New Zealand and it always amuses me when we have discussions about kiwi culture to think about the Botkins. And the prime minister dream.

[Curious]

Agreed to all the above but you missed one:

4) It is further from a mosque so he doesn't have to drop to his knees and pray for the souls of heathens every time he hears that "creepy" Adhan.

I don't know anything about the Adhan, but is it possible to hear it online somewhere or is that a no-no since it's obviously a religious ceremony type thing of some kind. I'm not trying to be insensitive, I am just wondering what it sounds like because of the "creepy" description John attributed to it.

[nomoxian]

I've never lived overseas or even vacationed overseas, so I might be completely talking out of my ass here. If I was moving to another country, I would find out what I could and could not buy in country, then buy it there. It seems like it would be cheaper or at least less of a headache to do it that way. Of course there would be personal items that would need to be shipped (clothes, some furniture). But I guess when you've got a good racket going like Johnny does, money is no object.

That's what I did... Sure, I had to re-buy some items like an iron, but it didn't cost much and I have stuff that use the same power current and I saved space in my luggage for more important things like clothes and jewelry :)

I don't even see the need for shipping over furniture, unless it's an antique piece you really don't want to part with and have no family you can hand it down to. I'm not in a church or anything, but I had no problem finding a mattress and other stuff people wanted to donate or leave behind when they moved out (I think living several floors up with no stairs helped their decision a lot LOL)

[nomoxian]

I don't know anything about the Adhan, but is it possible to hear it online somewhere or is that a no-no since it's obviously a religious ceremony type thing of some kind. I'm not trying to be insensitive, I am just wondering what it sounds like because of the "creepy" description John attributed to it.

The Adhan is the Call to Prayer. Mosques pump it from loud speakers so people around know it's time to pray. You can hear a bunch of them on Youtube by searching "Adhan"

[Palimpsest]

I don't know anything about the Adhan, but is it possible to hear it online somewhere or is that a no-no since it's obviously a religious ceremony type thing of some kind. I'm not trying to be insensitive, I am just wondering what it sounds like because of the "creepy" description John attributed to it.

It is very public :) It's the call to prayer that is sung 5 times a day from every mosque. I find it beautiful not creepy.

Here's one example.

[bBvideo 560,340:1cneqlu2]

[/bBvideo]

[AmazonSugarPie]

I don't know anything about the Adhan, but is it possible to hear it online somewhere or is that a no-no since it's obviously a religious ceremony type thing of some kind. I'm not trying to be insensitive, I am just wondering what it sounds like because of the "creepy" description John attributed to it.

You should be able to hear it online. I had a student last year who had an app on his phone that played it.

Also: Hi from a first time poster

[It'sFunToRun]

In my old apartment I used to live close enough to some mosque to occasionally hear the call to prayer at around 3 in the morning. It wasn't loud enough to wake me up, but if I was already awake I could hear it. I didn't hear it at any other times because the noise from the street covered it up.

I'd describe it as both creepy and comforting, which sounds weird, but think of a storm at night when you're home and in bed. It's creepy because storms are scary, but it's comforting because you know you're safe in bed and it can't get you so it makes you more aware of your comfort. Btw, not comparing muslims praying to a storm, just trying to show how something can be both creepy and comforting at the same time.

[Curious]

It is very public :) It's the call to prayer that is sung 5 times a day from every mosque. I find it beautiful not creepy.

Here's one example.

[bBvideo 560,340:2emdy58g]

[/bBvideo]

Well 2 of the chihuahuas give it an absolute paws down! In fact, one of them continued to bark for about 10 minutes after I stopped the video (the other one stopped barking as soon as I stopped the video). So I guess she falls into the thinking it's creepy category ;)

I didn't think it was creepy. Maybe haunting? I think the fact that it stops and starts rather than being sung from beginning to end straight though may be unusual enough to be....disquieting? to some people?

I admittedly didn't get to hear the entire video thanks to the crazy dog. I'll have to try again this weekend when she is outside for a longer period of time.

[Palimpsest]

I think to ears used to the Western scale the Arabic scale of the Adhan (or any Arabic music) might sound, perhaps, discordant? Unharmonic? In the same way that Indian or Chinese music also sounds slightly "wrong." It's the differences in intervals and pitch among the different scales. But I wouldn't choose the word "creepy."

Sorry it upset the Chihuahuas, Curious! As I said on another thread, the Duggars singing made one of my pups howl along loudly. He does the same thing with police and fire sirens!

ETA: Welcome Amazonsugarpie! Do you realize what a rabbit hole you have tumbled down by joining FJ. :P