All Things Doug Phillips & VF, Including Lourdes's Lawsuit

[WonderingInWA]

Another update on the case:

3/24/2015 SET A.D.R. DOCKET

MOTION FOR ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

COURT: 150 TRIAL DATE & TIME: 4/27/2015 8:30AM

Maybe the process server finally caught up with Dougie!

What could "ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION" mean? It makes it sound like one party is conceding somehow?

[socalrules]

It likely means that one party would like to hold a mediation to try and settle the case.

[WonderingInWA]

It likely means that one party would like to hold a mediation to try and settle the case.

Oh, thanks! Well, that's an interesting new twist. I imagine it's starting to look very expensive for all parties involved to continue with a trial, but I hope it's not Lourdes who is coming in with the proposal to settle privately. I'm sure the legal fees are astronomical already, but I hope she hangs in there and gets the best outcome!

[Marshmallow World]

ADR includes mediation and/or arbitration. In mediation, both parties agree to a settlement with the help of a neutral third party and the proceedings are confidential, which would appeal to the Tool. In arbitration, there is binding and non-binding. Non-binding is not enforceable, but binding is. It's also done in front of a neutral third party and can be confidential. However, it's not really done in cases like this - it's more for business and technical cases.

To be honest, I was kinda waiting for this. No way will Dougie want certain things on the record with a trial. No freaking way. I hope that if the judge orders mediation, Lourdes tells them to cram it (you don't have to do it, although you should put in a "good-faith effort). I want the Tool's shit on the record though in a trial

I'm not a lawyer, just a law student :) This does not constitute legal advice lol.

[CloakNDagger]

It likely means that one party would like to hold a mediation to try and settle the case.

That would be a typical Phillips / Hart tactic, I believe.

[Palimpsest]

That would be a typical Phillips / Hart tactic, I believe.

Hmm. I think it would be a typical Phillips/Hart tactic to threaten secular litigation, drive up legal fees, and then ask for some crap and biased in his favor "Biblical" mediation. That's what they did with the Forbes family and Taylor over the allosaur case. He pretty much bankrupted Taylor in the process.

I believe that Gibbs III is way too savvy to fall for that. He'll insist on secular mediation because his reputation is on the line here too. Actually, officially asking for mediation may be part of Gibbs III's tactics. It is really not unusual in cases like this. I speculate that Gibbs III has taken Lourdes's case on a contingency basis and wants his share of the $$$ too. I don't know though. He may have taken the case pro bono.

This may be an unpopular position to take but, much though I want to see Doug hung out to dry in court, I truly hope Lourdes can reach an out of court settlement. One that helps to "make her whole" in legal parlance and punishes Doug financially to her satisfaction. I doubt that this case has ever been about the money for Lourdes, I think it has been more about stopping Doug.

Fighting this in court will be incredibly hard and stressful for Lourdes and there is no guarantee that she will win. For her sake, I want this over so she can get on with her life. IMO, Lourdes speaking out and then filing suit has already toppled Doug and dismantled his empire. Even if he tries a comeback, he'll never get back to where he was before. If she reaches an out of court settlement that satisfies her then I will whole-heartedly support her decision. Although I'll be pining away with curiosity because the terms of the settlement will be confidential!

[GenerationCedarchip]

That would be a typical Phillips / Hart tactic, I believe.

I had wondered that. When I saw the motion, I started having flashbacks to "mediations" in my old church. None involved lawsuits to my knowledge, but whenever someone was on the outs with the leadership, there would be whispers of mediation and church discipline together with heavyhanded reminders that taking matters between church members to the courts was a bad witness.

I don't know much about Hart, but I've heard Dougie was schooled by some of these folks from my old church(and many more in HSLDA and other churches in VA) before moving to TX.

[calimojo]

aside from the sex scandal, what else has happened with DPIAT? I know there are a million threads, but who has the time to go through all of them? I sometimes think that when a new thread is added to a continuing topic, we need a brief summary to start it off in addition to the links to previous threads.

I Know about the Lourdes thing a bit, but where there other issues? I don't need the details, just something like 3 sentences summarizing. (ex: Doug and the corporate structure are being investigated for embezzlement and fraud, in addition to harassment of members. ).

I know those of you who are long term members here probably get tired of the newer ones always asking for history, but when there are 5 or more threads existing on a topic, it just becomes impossible to catch up.

[hoipolloi]

aside from the sex scandal, what else has happened with DPIAT? I know there are a million threads, but who has the time to go through all of them? I sometimes think that when a new thread is added to a continuing topic, we need a brief summary to start it off in addition to the links to previous threads.

I Know about the Lourdes thing a bit, but where there other issues? I don't need the details, just something like 3 sentences summarizing. (ex: Doug and the corporate structure are being investigated for embezzlement and fraud, in addition to harassment of members. ).

I know those of you who are long term members here probably get tired of the newer ones always asking for history, but when there are 5 or more threads existing on a topic, it just becomes impossible to catch up.

Maybe you could start here and use the search function: viewforum.php?f=93

[Palimpsest]

aside from the sex scandal, what else has happened with DPIAT? I know there are a million threads, but who has the time to go through all of them? I sometimes think that when a new thread is added to a continuing topic, we need a brief summary to start it off in addition to the links to previous threads.

I Know about the Lourdes thing a bit, but where there other issues? I don't need the details, just something like 3 sentences summarizing. (ex: Doug and the corporate structure are being investigated for embezzlement and fraud, in addition to harassment of members. ).

I know those of you who are long term members here probably get tired of the newer ones always asking for history, but when there are 5 or more threads existing on a topic, it just becomes impossible to catch up.

I agree that it is complicated and FJ is not always easy to search, but we old-timers have tried. In addition to the link provided by hoipolloi, here are a few more helpful hints for newbies:

- In the SOTDT sub-forum (have you found that yet?) there is a Who's Who thread. viewforum.php?f=34. These are posts summarizing some of the major groups/players. DPIAT and Vision Forum is covered there. No, we have not covered everyone. No, they are not necessarily completely up to date. Volunteers to update them and write summaries for those people and topics not yet covered are always welcome.

- When really long threads about major players are closed and Parts 2 to whatever are opened, fairly heroic efforts are made to put a brief summary as the first post. Happy Atheist is famous for her ability to sum up the action in a few pithy sentences as she did on the multiple parts of the Fall of Doug threads. (FYI, it is appreciated, but certainly not required, when members opening new threads post a brief overview of what or who they are talking about and link to other threads where they can.)

- In cases as notorious as the Falls of Doug and Gothard, google is your friend. There is plenty of news coverage. Also, Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board has very kindly gathered all her posts about DP together with useful links (read from the bottom up) here:

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/categ ... ion-forum/

(link not broken because JA knows all about FJ.)

I hope that helps.

[calimojo]

Thank you both for your responses. I appreciate your links and your time. It always clear to me that the membership of FJ are a very bright and articulate bunch, often with a sassy sense of humor. Because of this, I hate to skim/ or skip posts which makes the task of reading 8 or more threads filled with 40+ pages or posts overwhelming.

I know that for the "old timers" you all show an immense amount of patience with newer members by answering questions and posting links.

[apandaaries]

Thank you both for your responses. I appreciate your links and your time. It always clear to me that the membership of FJ are a very bright and articulate bunch, often with a sassy sense of humor. Because of this, I hate to skim/ or skip posts which makes the task of reading 8 or more threads filled with 40+ pages or posts overwhelming.

I know that for the "old timers" you all show an immense amount of patience with newer members by answering questions and posting links.

I totally agree. I'd been lurking FJ for months before signing up, just going through archived posts, and now that I'm registered and commenting, I am still catching up and learning! There are so many crazy families to follow and some of this stuff goes so far back (I've even found my way to Yuku for older threads -- I really LOVE that rapture pic). The SOTDRT is such an incredible resource...there is so much valuable information that so many people would prefer to have covered up. I love that FJ has devoted so much time and energy to ensure that these stories live in on internet infamy. Thank you all for your time, patience, and help!

And to get back on topic, Doug Phillips is a tool and I hope Lourdes gets the best outcome for her. While I know a trial would be stressful and painful, it would also expose a lot of the secrets VF has tried to keep hidden away. Mediation often keeps the details far too quiet. I would like to have VF and its illegalities on public display.

[Palimpsest]

I totally agree. I'd been lurking FJ for months before signing up, just going through archived posts, and now that I'm registered and commenting, I am still catching up and learning! There are so many crazy families to follow and some of this stuff goes so far back (I've even found my way to Yuku for older threads -- I really LOVE that rapture pic). The SOTDRT is such an incredible resource...there is so much valuable information that so many people would prefer to have covered up. I love that FJ has devoted so much time and energy to ensure that these stories live in on internet infamy. Thank you all for your time, patience, and help!

And to get back on topic, Doug Phillips is a tool and I hope Lourdes gets the best outcome for her. While I know a trial would be stressful and painful, it would also expose a lot of the secrets VF has tried to keep hidden away. Mediation often keeps the details far too quiet. I would like to have VF and its illegalities on public display.

Aww. You are both so sweet. FJ old-timers do try -- but it is so nice when people find the archives and other stuff and read them.

Yes, I also want the case to go to trial because I want Doug/VF/Scottie and Co. exposed too. OTOH, I want Lourdes to do the best thing for her. If she settles, I will understand and certainly not berate her. I hope others feel the same way.

And I just realized that I never answered calimojo's question. AFAIK Doug is not being investigated for financial misdeeds. I, and probably others, think he should be on IRS radar because there was a massive conflict of interest between VFI and VFM. At least one asset was sold to VFM by VFI at an inflated price. Scott Brown has very dirty hands too. IMO.

[Marian the Librarian]

Bumping to report that the Alternative Dispute Resolution meeting was scheduled for today, per the case record:

3/24/2015 SET A.D.R. DOCKET

MOTION FOR ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE

RESOLUTION

COURT: 150 TRIAL DATE & TIME: 4/27/2015 8:30AM

Also per the case record, the court has received something from the other key players:

4/9/2015 ORIGINAL ANSWER OF

SCOTT BROWN

4/9/2015 ORIGINAL ANSWER OF

JAMES ZES

4/9/2015 ORIGINAL ANSWER OF

DON HART

The actual documents aren't accessible online, at least not that I've been able to find. I'd love to know what Brown, Zes and Hart have to say for themselves.

Fingers crossed, and all good wishes to Lourdes.

[WonderingInWA]

Bumping to report that the Alternative Dispute Resolution meeting was scheduled for today, per the case record:

3/24/2015 SET A.D.R. DOCKET

MOTION FOR ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE

RESOLUTION

COURT: 150 TRIAL DATE & TIME: 4/27/2015 8:30AM

Also per the case record, the court has received something from the other key players:

4/9/2015 ORIGINAL ANSWER OF

SCOTT BROWN

4/9/2015 ORIGINAL ANSWER OF

JAMES ZES

4/9/2015 ORIGINAL ANSWER OF

DON HART

The actual documents aren't accessible online, at least not that I've been able to find. I'd love to know what Brown, Zes and Hart have to say for themselves.

Fingers crossed, and all good wishes to Lourdes.

Thanks for the reminder, Marian! Sending good vibes out to the universe for Lourdes today!

[socalrules]

An answer just means that they have responded to the complaint or cross-complaint against them. All an answer does is list generic affirmative defenses, i.e. Statute of limitations, waiver, estoppel, etc. There is no case information or admissions in an Answer. By answering, those parties have now appeared in the case. That trial date had likely been moved now that new parties have entered the action.

[ILoveJellybeans]

According to the Facebook page set up for her supporters, Lourdes is in college now, and plans on getting a masters degree in physics! Isnt that just so awesome! :)

[Marian the Librarian]

Case file has been updated again today:

4/29/2015 MOTION FOR PROTECTION

No other details. Very interesting.

[Coconut Flan]

That one does sound interesting.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

That means they want to keep concealed certain parts of their lives, to make some stuff off limits for discovery. Like a bank account or something.

I think. I didn't look it up but I saw one today at work and just skimmed it while filing it.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

According to the Facebook page set up for her supporters, Lourdes is in college now, and plans on getting a masters degree in physics! Isnt that just so awesome! :)

That is really cool. I was depressed after watching the two new Duggar shows today. I mean, it's totally normal and great to get married and have kids and cook dinner, hell I loved all that. But there's something upsetting to me that Anna, Jessa, and Jill never even considered anything else because they just don't have that option. I felt so irritated, like opportunities had been stolen from them. Never will they even participate in a discussion in a college class or meet up with people and study, or learn how to live alone. I'm always happy to see people like Lourdes being given the chance to just figure out what it is they actually like and want to do. Wtg, Lourdes!

[GenerationCedarchip]

Case file has been updated again today:

4/29/2015 MOTION FOR PROTECTION

No other details. Very interesting.

I'm not surprised. I can see where a discovery process could lead to all manner of financial and other sensitive info re: Vision Forum coming out and in civil cases, my experience in my own state has been that it's pretty typical for the party with sensitive financial docs to want to keep that stuff out of the public view. In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if members from Doug's church, ex-VFers, creditors, and more are all watching this case with great interest.

I'd love to see someone file an amicus with the court arguing that a protective order would violate the public interest given the number of people whose trust has allegedly been betrayed. Would also love to be a fly on the wall at some of these hearings.

[CloakNDagger]

If the Phillips are really hurting because of the lawsuit or the business closing, it isn't bad enough to keep them from travelling to Washington, DC and doing the reenactor stuff. Looks like they were there today. Stumbled across this from CNN and it looks like at least Faith and Jubilee were there (see Twitter pictures), but I cannot imagine that they were there by themselves.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/politics/ ... index.html

[DomWackTroll]

"Apparently vets will tell them 'You look just like a girl I dated!'"

But... But... Dating is evil.

[Marian the Librarian]

"Apparently vets will tell them 'You look just like a girl I dated!'"

But... But... Dating is evil.

Not to mention the creep factor...