All Things Doug Phillips & VF, Including Lourdes's Lawsuit

[treemom]

If my father caught a much older man trying to break into my bedroom late at night, he would have shot his ass. End of story.

That doesn't change the fact that the reason Doug had access to her was her fathers belief in patriarchy and women not having their own lives distinct of their fathers wishes. In return of the daughters being beall's servant and living with the tool was considered preferable to education at college.

Do I think the Phillips took advantage of the family in addition to the sexual abuse? Yes I do. Do I think that her parents have recognized the folly of their previous ideology? Every indication we have is yes. Do I think they are terrible people? No. But they are responsible for the years they fed the poison to lordes. And for sending her to live with someone to help spread the poison farther. And for the way patriarchy makes it easier for women to be preyed on.

But mostly the poision they fed their children.

[PrairieGirl]

Sooooo, what do the Tool's older "children" do now? I didn't follow the Tool all that closely but I am aware that his older sons are well into adulthood, correct? Any word on jobs? Schooling? Playing dress up? Running fake societies that celebrate the gruesome deaths of innocent people?

I would assume that Beall homeschools those who are still school-aged, but at least a few of their offspring should be looking to leave the nest soon.

[RosyDaisy]

Yeah, I know they tried, but once they saw DPIAT's face they backed down. My father wouldn't have. He would have shot his ass.

[Marian the Librarian]

Sooooo, what do the Tool's older "children" do now? I didn't follow the Tool all that closely but I am aware that his older sons are well into adulthood, correct? Any word on jobs? Schooling? Playing dress up? Running fake societies that celebrate the gruesome deaths of innocent people?

I would assume that Beall homeschools those who are still school-aged, but at least a few of their offspring should be looking to leave the nest soon.

They're continuing in the Tool's fine tradition of foreign travel combined with cosplay:

operationmeatball.squarespace.com

[PrairieGirl]

They're continuing in the Tool's fine tradition of foreign travel combined with cosplay:

operationmeatball.squarespace.com

How much money did DPIART make at BCA? He must have been squandering it away for the day that he would take his mighty fall. And obviously he and Beall are teaching their children all about hard work and education. *sarcasm*

[nokidsmom]

That doesn't change the fact that the reason Doug had access to her was her fathers belief in patriarchy and women not having their own lives distinct of their fathers wishes. In return of the daughters being beall's servant and living with the tool was considered preferable to education at college.

Do I think the Phillips took advantage of the family in addition to the sexual abuse? Yes I do. Do I think that her parents have recognized the folly of their previous ideology? Every indication we have is yes. Do I think they are terrible people? No. But they are responsible for the years they fed the poison to lordes. And for sending her to live with someone to help spread the poison farther. And for the way patriarchy makes it easier for women to be preyed on.

But mostly the poision they fed their children.

Agree and I do wonder how much guilt they are feeling over the fact that they, albeit unknowingly, put their daughter in harm's way in more ways than one. Not just literally by having her live with the DPIAT's family but they primed her for taking the abuse and remaining silent once it started. They have to be feeling tremendous amounts of guilt over that.

[RosyDaisy]

I don't think they feel sorry at all. If anything the probably still put some of the blame on Lordes.

[Hane]

I don't think they feel sorry at all. If anything the probably still put some of the blame on Lordes.

I'm friends with Lourdes on Facebook, and she seems to have a very good relationship with her mother, at least. In all the pics posted there, there's a wonderful air of freedom.

[Palimpsest]

I don't think they feel sorry at all. If anything the probably still put some of the blame on Lordes.

RosyDaisy, that is a nice snarky little sound-bite but it is overly simplistic and makes too many unkind assumptions about the Torres family. It also ignores some of the evidence documented here over several threads.

The Torres parents have left BCA and it appears that they and her brother have supported Lourdes whole-heartedly since they found out what Doug was doing to her. Quite aside from (allegedly) chasing Doug down the road at gun-point, the Torres parents apparently actively confronted both Doug and Beall once they realized what was going on and then took the situation to BCA leadership. That must have been very hard for them.

Of course, the Torres parents may be faulted in involving the family with BCA, and by extension DPIAT, in the first place and swallowing the Flavorade. However, they were cheated and fucked over by Doug as much as anyone in that they trusted that snake with their daughter. I see them as Doug's victims too.

The responsibility lies squarely with Doug Phillips. Let us not forget that.

[treemom]

Every indication we have is that they likely regret and have learned from what happened. I don't at all think they should be responsible for Doug sexually assaulting their daughter. I just do think that they are responsible for the things the spread on RotD and the patriarchal bs they taught their daughter.

There is no indication that they blame her. There is no indication that they are bad people. I believe they were caught up in the lies that DP told about his shitty ideology and that was just part of it. As I recall the mother cleaned for the Phillips family and the son was taken advantage of in a similar, work for free way. I think they are victims of patriarchy. But you can be both a victim of it and a offender.

Eta number two: it may seem like palmpiset and I don't agree. But I agree with what they posted. I was simply responding to the idea they were only victims. Because Doug Phillips sexually assaulted their daughter they are further wronged by him, but I believe if he had turned out to be a peachy guy who didn't rape women they still wronged Lordes. It doesn't appear that they continue to wrong her, which is why I don't think they are bad people. They were caught up in a fucked up ideology, but they didn't get so consumed by it they failed her when she came to them with the reports.

Of course, this is all opinion that is based heavily on speculation because we know so little about much of what went on. It is based on RotD and the publicly available info. I could be completely wrong either way.

[Marian the Librarian]

RosyDaisy, that is a nice snarky little sound-bite but it is overly simplistic and makes too many unkind assumptions about the Torres family. It also ignores some of the evidence documented here over several threads.

The Torres parents have left BCA and it appears that they and her brother have supported Lourdes whole-heartedly since they found out what Doug was doing to her. Quite aside from (allegedly) chasing Doug down the road at gun-point, the Torres parents apparently actively confronted both Doug and Beall once they realized what was going on and then took the situation to BCA leadership. That must have been very hard for them.

Of course, the Torres parents may be faulted in involving the family with BCA, and by extension DPIAT, in the first place and swallowing the Flavorade. However, they were cheated and fucked over by Doug as much as anyone in that they trusted that snake with their daughter. I see them as Doug's victims too.

The responsibility lies squarely with Doug Phillips. Let us not forget that.

Amen. And here's hoping he gets his comeuppance, and soon.

[RosyDaisy]

Oh please. People don't detox from the kool-aid that fast. They confronted Doug? So fucking what? She still stayed in Doug's household.

Yes, Doug is the one responsible here, but it was her parents who joined BCA/VF freely. Their kids? No. So they deserve some of the guilt here. But I seriously doubt they feel any.

What if a Duggar or Bates daughter was one of Gothard's victims. Would we be feeling sorry for the parents? Think on that.

[Coco]

That's all true, but we can't deny the glitzy life that DPIAT and Beall were portraying. VF was a big deal for years in homeschool circles. It's easy for us to snark on it, but many well-meaning people were fooled by a very slick con artist. And when her parents realized it, they backed away and now they support their daughter. The whole thing i'm sure was terrifying, first to have their trusted pastor/employer/"friend" suddenly proven to be a predator, then to have him threatening their family with lawsuits, angry emails and who knows what else.

I don't know what they could have done better in the situation besides actually hitting him with shots from a pellet gun.

[samismad]

It's actually really appalling how few families support their children when they find out that they have been raped / sexually abused. I know 5 family situations where the child was abused, and three of the five did nothing. Only one of the five families was religious at all, (mainline Christians) so it's not just a patriarchal religious thing, and they were one of the two that stood up for their child, to the extent that both parents quit their jobs and the whole family moved interstate while pursuing legal options, to ensure that the perpetrator and his family had no contact with their daughter. Standing up for your child is much, much rarer than people think.

So the Torres family deserve a lot of credit for standing up for Lourdes. They're supporting their daughter in her new life and relationships, in getting counselling, and in her legal case.

[RosyDaisy]

Lawsuits and hateful email....woo is them. That's nothing compared to the hell Loudes went through or the hateful things they stood for. Like I implied earlier, if this were a Duggar or Bates girl, this would be a very different conversation. There wouldn't be enough room in cyberspace for the posts full of rage against them.

[Palimpsest]

Every indication we have is that they likely regret and have learned from what happened. I don't at all think they should be responsible for Doug sexually assaulting their daughter. I just do think that they are responsible for the things the spread on RotD and the patriarchal bs they taught their daughter.

There is no indication that they blame her. There is no indication that they are bad people. I believe they were caught up in the lies that DP told about his shitty ideology and that was just part of it. As I recall the mother cleaned for the Phillips family and the son was taken advantage of in a similar, work for free way. I think they are victims of patriarchy. But you can be both a victim of it and a offender.

Eta number two: it may seem like palmpiset and I don't agree. But I agree with what they posted. I was simply responding to the idea they were only victims. Because Doug Phillips sexually assaulted their daughter they are further wronged by him, but I believe if he had turned out to be a peachy guy who didn't rape women they still wronged Lordes. It doesn't appear that they continue to wrong her, which is why I don't think they are bad people. They were caught up in a fucked up ideology, but they didn't get so consumed by it they failed her when she came to them with the reports.

Of course, this is all opinion that is based heavily on speculation because we know so little about much of what went on. It is based on RotD and the publicly available info. I could be completely wrong either way.

Yes, Treemom, we do agree. I think the Torres parents may indeed feel both guilt and huge regret for getting sucked into Doug's orbit. I also assign them some blame for involving the family, but definitely see them as victims of spiritual abuse and a massive betrayal of trust by Doug. I don't happen to feel like kicking them when they are down. They do seem to have come through for Lourdes and supported her once they found out what was going on.

I also agree with Samismad. This sort of support is, sadly, very rare among many of these families.

One of the sickening things about this whole thing is how carefully Doug picked his victim and how he groomed her, but also groomed her family, over time. The power differential here is huge:

Doug Esq. the fancy educated sue-happy white lawyer, Pastor of BCA, rich and successful business person (apparently), protégé of the great and filthy rich Jim Leininger ...

versus

The church member Torres family, where Dad is a an immigrant who works a blue collar job, and where Mom, Andrew and Lourdes are all employed by Doug in one way or another so that he can control them financially as well as spiritually.

That wasn't an easy thing for the Torres family to confront. At all.

[Palimpsest]

Lawsuits and hateful email....woo is them. That's nothing compared to the hell Loudes went through or the hateful things they stood for. Like I implied earlier, if this were a Duggar or Bates girl, this would be a very different conversation. There wouldn't be enough room in cyberspace for the posts full of rage against them.

But we are not talking about a Duggar or Bates girl. If we were and hard evidence came to light that a Duggar or Bates girl had been assaulted by Bill Gothard, then you are probably right. I would be more enraged with the parents than I am with the Torres family. That is because they are less vulnerable. The Duggars and Bateses, while brainwashed, are relatively independent financially and spiritually with their own little home churches, they have actively promoted Gothard teaching, and are engaging in a cover-up. This is particularly true in Gil Bates's case because he is a member of the IBLP BoD.

However, I might be able to feel some compassion for the Duggar and Bates parental units because Gothard mislead them and spiritually abused them, just as Doug mislead and spiritually abused his flock.

I would still assign the primary responsibility where it belongs: with the perpetrator. In this case, Bill Gothard. Allegedly.

[Marian the Librarian]

Bumping to report that the DPIAT/R case info was updated on 12/4: "RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFF'S REQUEST FOR DISCLOSURE."

No other info, but it looks like things are moving along.

apps.bexar.org/search/FullCase.html?id=CI000000000000002DC2014CI05999#history

[Palimpsest]

Bumping to report that the DPIAT/R case info was updated on 12/4: "RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFF'S REQUEST FOR DISCLOSURE."

No other info, but it looks like things are moving along.

apps.bexar.org/search/FullCase.html?id=CI000000000000002DC2014CI05999#history

Thanks. I hope the disclosure response was expensive for Doug.

A small OT quibble: I do wish whoever updates that court docket would correct the typos.

[Maxwell]

Just read about the great Instagram/Twitter purge. I don't use either and was wondering if someone around here who is following DPIAT on either service could comment on how many followers he lost?

[hoipolloi]

Just read about the great Instagram/Twitter purge.

Where? When? Who?

[Maxwell]

Where? When? Who?

The Internet -- Instagram specifically. My bad, Twitter was NOT involved.

Thursday night/ Friday morning -- Dec. 18/19, 2014

Justin Bieber, Kim Kardashian, Beyonce, and a host of others...

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548463

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/19/instagram-purge-costs-celebrities-millions-of-followers

Edited to clarify that it was JUST Instagram that purged.

[hoipolloi]

The Internet -- Instagram specifically. My bad, Twitter was NOT involved.

Thursday night/ Friday morning -- Dec. 18/19, 2014

Justin Bieber, Kim Kardashian, Beyonce, and a host of others...

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548463

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/19/instagram-purge-costs-celebrities-millions-of-followers

Edited to clarify that it was JUST Instagram that purged.

OK. Thanks.

FWIW: Hard to tell but his Twitter account (think it was Douglas Winston) doesn't seem to show up at all. Some FJers follow him so perhaps they can confirm.

[RosyDaisy]

My Instagram wasn't affected. I downloaded some pictures there on both days. Strange.

ETA: My posts are still there along with comments from my followers.

[hoipolloi]

My Instagram wasn't affected. I downloaded some pictures there on both days. Strange.

ETA: My posts are still there along with comments from my followers.

Well, my Twitter & Instagram were not affected either but neither do I have millions of followers!

Hilarious if fitting to think that DPIAR's Twitter & Instagram feeds were largely populated by spambots.