Erin miscarried

[MalteseBaby]

Kelly's blog post was a bit " flowery" what with the huge assed font for the poem and the huge flower.

Chad and Erin were more tasteful about the entire thing, IMO.

I'm really wondering if Whitney is pregnant or if it was an Internet rumor of sorts...

[HereticHick]

Kelly's blog was indeed over the top. If Whitney is indeed pregnant (and I also now wonder if it was some sort of Internet confusion), I feel bad that she's having to live through this miscarriagepalooza.

[LilyRose]

I don't think Michelle continued to take the pill after she knew she was pregnant. Why would she? I think she missed a dose, got pregnant, but didn't realize she was pregnant and continued to take the pill as normal every day. When she realized she was pregnant she stopped taking it but she miscarried and her doctor told her it was because of the pill. She either made an honest mistake like thousands of other women or she was one of the .1% who get pregnant with perfect use. But she chose to blame herself and then go off the deep end.

This is more my understanding too. I've never seen anything that suggests that Michelle found out she was pregnant and then continued to take the pill, rather she got pregnant while taking the pill (either due to missing a dose, or it simply failed) and went onto have a miscarriage.

I think the advice they got from the doctor was regarding the fact that one of the ways the contraceptive pill prevents pregnancy is by preventing a fertilised egg from implanting in the uterus wall- this is a very different thing to the miscarriage of an established pregnancy, but I think that JB and Michelle interpreted it as such and never looked back.

[geergirl]

Stuff like this can really mess up family dynamics.

No kidding. While I was undergoing fertility treatments my SIL because pregnant. She and my brother were worried about telling us but she miscarried before they did. They never told us. And then got off the phone as fast as possible when I called to tell them I was expecting. There were other issues in the relationship before that, but it was pretty much the nail in the coffin. She's had further losses and they didn't tell us about them, but expected us to know and react to them. We've seen them twice since the girls were born and the second time they basically ignored us. It's a mess.

I hope Erin and Whitney can maintain a good relationship through this. It's hard enough to cope with something like this without all of the "get married, immediately have babies" programming.

[Earthshine]

If Whitney isn't pregnant and it was just a rumor, it started with Kelly's mom on the fan page. Which is strange.

[MalteseBaby]

Earthshine, I didn't realize it was a close family member who said Whitney is pregnant. Since this will be her great grandchild, I guess she knows what's what. Thanks for clarifying the source a bit.

[Earthshine]

Earthshine, I didn't realize it was a close family member who said Whitney is pregnant. Since this will be her great grandchild, I guess she knows what's what. Thanks for clarifying the source a bit.

No problem. Although it is possible she was confused and gave out misinformation... :think:

[Georgiana]

So Kelly says that they only saw an empty sack in their first ultrasound, and Chad said they confirmed the miscarriage just before 9 weeks.

I wonder why they were telling people (or at least the little ones) when they knew that this was a possibility and even a probability? Seems like you would want to hold off after you had the first ultrasound? They must have announced it to family at least as soon as the stick dried.

[Coconut Flan]

The lesson that the fundies and a lot of young women these days don't get it is to wait until at least the first appointment before you tell very many people or any people outside you and the spouse.

[lilith]

I got pregnant three times (with my three children) while my sister was trying very hard to conceive her second child. It's difficult for everyone involved, my mother especially found it hard to balance rejoicing over her sudden surfeit of grandchildren with being sensitive to my sister's feelings.

[doubleT]

bal maiden - I'm sorry for what you are going through. I'm glad your SIL is being sensitive about it.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

blog.thebatesfamily.com/2014/03/20/in-heaven/

[scc12]

Oh yes,the ebil birf control pill is very much a political issue w the Duggars/fundies in general.In addition to all forms of contraception,but I think they choose to pick on the pill due to it's popularity,and that they can find a way to twist it into being some sort of abortion pill that causes miscarriages,when it doesn't.

[scc12]

Yes,I agree,for an empty sac,the post was a little over the top.And you can hope and pray all you want,but I haven't ever heard of an empty sac producing a baby.As they said,it was just the sac that was growing.

I agree,they must have announced as soon as the stick came out +.

[16strong]

I have never been pregnant and don't know much about the subject, but if anyone can educate me here, I'd be grateful. If you have just an empty sac, was there ever a baby involved?

[scc12]

I have never been pregnant and don't know much about the subject, but if anyone can educate me here, I'd be grateful. If you have just an empty sac, was there ever a baby involved?

there was conception,it did occur,but development stopped very early on,so early that the sac appears empty,and the fetus can't be seen on u/s.sometimes the sac keeps growing,as the body doesn't recognize there isn't a baby in it to grow.

You can look up 'blighted ovum',or (I think) another term is 'aembryonic pregnancy'.

I'm guessing Erin had the d n c so she could try and get pregnant again as soon as possible,as opposed to just letting a natural miscarriage occur,which might take longer.

[bal maiden]

In my understanding, sometimes in an early ultrasound the foetal pole is too small to be seen, so an empty-looking sac doesn't always mean that there is no developing embryo. So it could be that Erin had an early ultrasound, saw an empty sac but was told it's too early to rule out a pregnancy as it may just be too small. Then at a second scan a little later, it became obvious that there was no embryo developing/that is was a missed miscarriage.

[Mama Mia]

In my understanding, sometimes in an early ultrasound the foetal pole is too small to be seen, so an empty-looking sac doesn't always mean that there is no developing embryo. So it could be that Erin had an early ultrasound, saw an empty sac but was told it's too early to rule out a pregnancy as it may just be too small. Then at a second scan a little later, it became obvious that there was no embryo developing/that is was a missed miscarriage.

I think that's a pretty common scenario if someone has an ultrasound early in pregnancy for whatever reason. Sometimes it's just too early to see the embryo or the heartbeat, unless there were other problems that wouldn't necessarily be a reason to suspect anything was wrong with the pregnancy. Around here they really encourage very early first appointments, and most doctors do a dating ultrasound at that time, and just do another at the next visit if it's too early.

[Mama Mia]

Well, IIRC, J'chelle continued to take the pill after pregnancy, which, yes, can cause miscarriage. Her doctor then pointed out the instructions on the pill, and instead of blaming themselves for being too stupid to follow directions, they blamed the pill for the loss of their child.

I don't think the Duggar parents can handle criticism, so I think any time they are faced with their own shortcomings, they bob and weave to try and find something or someone else to lay the blame on. Remember how JB lost his campaign because of a "sin in the camp"? Uh huh. Riiiiiiiiight.

Well if you get pregnant while on the pill you are very likely to continue taking it until the pregnancy is confirmed or there is a miscarriage, whichever comes first. And being on the pill you're obviously less likely to be testing until your period is fairly late, so realistically it's easily a month of taking the pill while pregnant. I don't think they meant the pregnancy was confirmed and she kept taking it.

[browngrl]

Yes,I agree,for an empty sac,the post was a little over the top.And you can hope and pray all you want,but I haven't ever heard of an empty sac producing a baby.As they said,it was just the sac that was growing.

I agree,they must have announced as soon as the stick came out +.

This is true MOST of the time. However, there is a small but significant chance that a viable pregnancy will result from what is initially an empty sac. In recent years the guidelines and recommendations for calling a failed pregnancy have become much more conservative just because of this. If an empty sac is growing and the pregnancy is a wanted pregnancy then serial ultrasound exams and correlation with serum HCG results is actually the standard of care in much of the world (not sure if the US has officially adopted the new guidelines yet, but they were published in the New England Journal in 2013).

edited to add: punctuation

[scc12]

ok,thx all for the info. :)

have things changed that much,that dr's now encourage early appt's for pregnancy? I had my last baby in '92,and a family dr. confirmed the pregnancy at 6 weeks,but the ob/gyn wouldn't even see me until I was at least 8 weeks along,and I was told that was standard procedure.they did an u/s at that time and my son measured out to exactly 8 weeks,but I guess if the dates had been off,I could see how they would have encouraged me to wait and see,if nothing showed up but an empty sac.

[apple1]

ok,thx all for the info. :)

have things changed that much,that dr's now encourage early appt's for pregnancy? I had my last baby in '92,and a family dr. confirmed the pregnancy at 6 weeks,but the ob/gyn wouldn't even see me until I was at least 8 weeks along,and I was told that was standard procedure.they did an u/s at that time and my son measured out to exactly 8 weeks,but I guess if the dates had been off,I could see how they would have encouraged me to wait and see,if nothing showed up but an empty sac.

Not around here. With both her pregnancies (one in 2011 and one in 2013) my daughter couldn't even get an appointment - and she was already a patient at that practice - until she was approximately 3 months. Now, if she had started bleeding or something, they would have gone ahead and worked her in earlier.

[anjulibai]

We ended up announcing my pregnancy very early because I told my mother when I got the positive test result and even though I told her not to tell anyone, she began telling people. So we thought, well, cat's out of the bag. I think we'll wait longer next time, because I don't want to have a public miscarriage. I think that would be really hard for me, personally.

We did have an ultrasound first, before we made a general announcement. I was 7 weeks at that point. Around here, they check for viability at that time and then again around 10-12 weeks.

[Mama Mia]

Not around here. With both her pregnancies (one in 2011 and one in 2013) my daughter couldn't even get an appointment - and she was already a patient at that practice - until she was approximately 3 months. Now, if she had started bleeding or something, they would have gone ahead and worked her in earlier.

It really varies by area. Where I am they really, really stress early prenatal care, and treat moms badly if they don't get in the first couple months...the earlier the better. I have no idea why, it makes no logical sense that I can see.

[veron1que]

The lesson that the fundies and a lot of young women these days don't get it is to wait until at least the first appointment before you tell very many people or any people outside you and the spouse.

I've found that fundies are encouraged to share immediately in case there is a miscarriage. In the event they miscarry they will have the support and prayers of their community. Its the complete opposite of the mainstream norm, which is to wait to announce so that a miscarriage is only shared between close family/friends.

If interested in seeing this logic in action, check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfdtt1UqNZE. skip to about 2:40 Its made by 3 quiverfull mothers, who are trying to modernize the view of the quiverfull community on YouTube.