Doug Wilson 2: Christian Nationalism, Dominionism and Excuses for Abuse

[nelliebelle1197]

I am not even trying to be funny on this title. Wilson and his ilk are what is wrong with religion and wrong with this country. He is a hell of a lot more dangerous than Jrod or the Duggars. We should be on our 500th thread about these people.

 

 

[stylites]

I presume the news about Canon Press publishing Wolfe's book on "The Case for Christian Nationalism" is relevant here.

Wolfe has been going in this direction for a while, witness a few posts on mereorthodoxy:

https://mereorthodoxy.com/cultural-christianity/

https://mereorthodoxy.com/christians-can-support-tighter-immigration-restrictions/

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by stylites

[Columbia]

It should be really interesting to see what happens if Doug decides to platform Mark. Driscoll is going hard NAR with his support of Kari Lake, and has openly repudiated Calvinism, which would be massive theological hurdles if any of Wilson’s followers asked hard questions, but fortunately for him no one questions the mob boss. 

[stylites]

3 hours ago, Columbia said:

It should be really interesting to see what happens if Doug decides to platform Mark. Driscoll is going hard NAR with his support of Kari Lake

I think Driscoll will go wherever he goes, and I'm sure there are enough parallels between NAR and post-millenlialism of the form that Wilson espouses, for a conversation between them to be treated as a form of reaching beyond the aisle, though I don't think it will happen at this point because it isn't necessarily in Wilson's interest to do so - there isn't any particular community that Driscoll reaches who could be reached by that.

Back to Wilson, I see his latest published author has been putting out some fairly racist screeds quite recently:

 

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, stylites said:

I think Driscoll will go wherever he goes, and I'm sure there are enough parallels between NAR and post-millenlialism of the form that Wilson espouses, for a conversation between them to be treated as a form of reaching beyond the aisle, though I don't think it will happen at this point because it isn't necessarily in Wilson's interest to do so - there isn't any particular community that Driscoll reaches who could be reached by that.

That’s an excellent point. But it would certainly be to Driscoll’s benefit to have Wilson bring him back to some form of honor. If I remember correctly, Wilson made a bunch of excuses for Driscoll, and never condemned him. And we all just saw what happens to people who question Wilson, in the form of Costi Hinn. What if Driscoll is banking on having that kind of protection as a friend of Wilson? He could make a massive comeback and have all his detractors be easily silenced. 

Here’s my second end of year prediction: Driscoll’s going to scramble like a weasel to get in Wilson’s good graces, be invited to Fight, Laugh Feast, and be re-legitimized. 

[hoipolloi]

Hard to say. They do have a lot in common but OTOH each believes himself to be king of the dungheap. 

As Shakespeare said, "Two suns hold not their courses in one sphere."

Edited November 3, 2022 by hoipolloi

[stylites]

12 hours ago, Columbia said:

That’s an excellent point. But it would certainly be to Driscoll’s benefit to have Wilson bring him back to some form of honor. If I remember correctly, Wilson made a bunch of excuses for Driscoll, and never condemned him. And we all just saw what happens to people who question Wilson, in the form of Costi Hinn. What if Driscoll is banking on having that kind of protection as a friend of Wilson? He could make a massive comeback and have all his detractors be easily silenced. 

Here’s my second end of year prediction: Driscoll’s going to scramble like a weasel to get in Wilson’s good graces, be invited to Fight, Laugh Feast, and be re-legitimized. 

I can see Driscoll trying to get invited to "Fight, Laugh, Feast" just out of sheer egoism, that said I have a feeling that his new church setup actually suits him - it's independent, it isn't as growing as fast so there's not a constant stream of new leaders who could serve as a source of challenging ideas, and the congregation is presumably a lot more affluent.  The wider profile is only worth it if he has something to sell, and I'm sure the NAR serve as a better outlet for books published by Charisma than the reformed adjacent movement, and apart from anything else I'm not sure that Wilson's theology would fit Driscoll's current audience.

As a sidenote; Wilson's stance re Driscoll is at least in part explainable by the long association between the two of then - Daniel Kleven has dug some archival material showing that it predates the founding of Mars Hill, and dates back at least as far as Driscoll's time at WSU.

[neuroticcat]

Yeah, Driscoll and Wilson go way back. And Driscoll has always been interested in political power, though he never gained any traction in Seattle with it, obviously.

I think it reveals how much of a narcissist and power hungry person Mark is. When he was at his peak, he probably would have thrown Wilson under the bus, but now Wilson is on the rise and Mark sees a way back in. The current political climate has made some super strange bedfellows, but these guys actually have a lot in common. I bet Mark would've loved to make a Seattle neighborhood into Moscow-like take over, and Moscow teaching is so thematically similar re: masculinity.

[hoipolloi]

In which Doug Wilson has a cameo.

Also, check out the video following hers, in which a manly Christian man gives us the best in manly flag designs:

 

[hoipolloi]

Posted info on this in the Voddie Baucham thread, but later this month Canon Press is premiering a movie on how to save the world, starring Doug "I Love Pedophiles" Wilson, of course. 

For some good post-election commentary on how white Christian nationalism did at the polls and whatʻs to come, check out this article by Kathryn Joyce.

[neuroticcat]

I just saw that clip on twitter, and I in fact LOLd. The $$$ they put out to make a marketing spin on that clip, from the clumsy cuts and angles to the random mixed metaphrs, then to have good ol' Doug sitting there mansplaining how to "save the world." 

Though it did make me mad when he dragged Jesus' name into it. Like, "we can't do that without Jesus." What, Doug? We can't have your totalitarian abusive methods without Jesus? Dude, that's all on you Doug. 

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

good ol' Doug sitting there mansplaining how to "save the world." 

I know, right? Also, probably not a coincidence, but Doug is a classic manspreader. 

What a fucking asshole.

[Howl]

17 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

For some good post-election commentary on how white Christian nationalism did at the polls and whatʻs to come, check out this article by Kathryn Joyce.

Thanks for this excellent article, but I do take "some" exception to the text bolded below: 

All that is to say, "It's not one or the other," as Posner told Salon. Rather, both versions of Christian nationalism "can work in tandem with each other, and will." The charismatic movement that has long supported Trump "is too sprawling and unleashed for it to go anywhere," while the more respectable version of Christian nationalism represented by Ascol is a cornerstone of the conservative base. "Maybe they're not going to go as crazy as Mastriano, with his prophet or the ReAwaken America crew, but people like Copeland have huge audiences and that's not going to change," Posner added.

I've been following two accounts on twitter who have been spreading their alarm over the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation), UIP (United in Purpose) the Ziklag Group, 7 Mountain Dominionists.   They have staggering amounts of money and influence.  They are doing the Reawaken America tour. Michael Flynn is allied with them. They're dangerous. I do think these groups will coalesce with the extreme Catholic alt right because they all realize how close they are to gaining the ultimate gold ring, so I do agree with this. "Any Republican would need to patch together all of those constituencies of the Christian right to win."

[Pecansforeveryone]

Evangelicals will also have to play nice with Mormons who after white evangelicals make up the largest chunk of wannabe Christian nationalists. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Evangelicals will also have to play nice with Mormons who after white evangelicals make up the largest chunk of wannabe Christian nationalists. 

Agree and that will stick in many an evangelical craw.

Also, white evangelicals have historically been almost as suspicious of Catholics so you wonder how well a hate coalition of evangelicals, Mormons & trad Catholics would hang together.

[Howl]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Also, white evangelicals have historically been almost as suspicious of Catholics so you wonder how well a hate coalition of evangelicals, Mormons & trad Catholics would hang together.

Well, the Catholic alt reich-Leonard Leo-Federalist coalition delivered the Supreme Court that gutted Roe v Wade, so that has to have gotten their attention.  On the other hand, there are numerous titanic male egos/narcissists involved among all those groups, so at some point various pissing contests will erupt. 

These fucking morons are trying to destroy Social Security and MediCare +  took away a woman's right to choose,  alienating old people and young people.  The young people probably saved us from a MAGA House and Senate. 

[Howl]

Jim Rigby,  woke Presbyterian pastor here in Austin, TX has a nice rebuttal for the main tenants of Xtian Nationalism: 

7 TRAGIC ERRORS OF CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM  (AND 7 SCRIPTURES THAT REFUTE THEM)

CHRISTIANS AND AMERICANS ARE GOD’S FAVORITES   "Of a truth I perceive that God does not show partiality but every nation that is reverent and does justice is accepted by God. (Acts 10:34-35.)

GOD WANTS CHRISTIANS TO PROSPER EVEN IN TIMES OF ECONOMIC INEQUALITY   “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.” (Luke 6:24)

CHRISTIANITY IS THE ONLY WAY   “Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.” (1 John 4:16 b)

CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO RULE THE NATION  “Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant.” (Mark 10:43b)

WE NEED CHRISTIAN PRAYER IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE   “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door.” (Matt. 6:6a)

CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE AGAINST TAXES  “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. (Matthew 21:31 -Speaking to pious clergy)

CHRISTIANITY IS A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS  “What you do to the least of these you have done to me.” (Matt. 25:40)

[neuroticcat]

11 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Agree and that will stick in many an evangelical craw.

Also, white evangelicals have historically been almost as suspicious of Catholics so you wonder how well a hate coalition of evangelicals, Mormons & trad Catholics would hang together.

Right? And how long will it last before it implodes into ppl calling for the death penalty over interpretations of the Eucharist. 

[Howl]

8 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Right? And how long will it last before it implodes into ppl calling for the death penalty over interpretations of the Eucharist. 

True, each faction will have a hill to die on at some point -- especially if it ever gets to a point of an official, state religion.  Yeah, I just typed that. 

However, the way we're structured,  Xtians getting what they want by passing oppressive legislation at the local and state level, rubber stamped by the alt-reich edgelords in the Supreme Court, is keeping everyone in line for the time being. 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Howl

[stylites]

20 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Agree and that will stick in many an evangelical craw.

Also, white evangelicals have historically been almost as suspicious of Catholics so you wonder how well a hate coalition of evangelicals, Mormons & trad Catholics would hang together.

here is some proof that evangelicals don't really have much of a set of theological beliefs, so I think that unless there's some monetary benefit for their leaders to go in this direction, then they won't. 

[And this isn't new either - as a callow youth I read Chuck Colson's 'biography' 'Born Again', and you could make it all the way through that without realising Colson was catholic.]

I think the leaders have figured that they get far more money and influence from sticking together and this is what we'll see.

[neuroticcat]

I think the leaders and power brokers will. The problem is that there are sincere, zealous ppl who actually believe what they say. Those are the ppl who may be willing to work alongside Mormons or vice versa who then will not be able to live with compromise/nuance.

[Columbia]

A review of “A Case for Christian Nationalism” by Stephen Wolfe just came out, and it is absolutely fantastic. The first two thoughts I had reading it were:

1. I wish I could write like this

2. I guess it’s no surprise that the only place he could find to publish this poorly researched drivel was Moscow.

 

https://brianmattson.substack.com/p/a-childrens-crusade

(I think this probably belongs here, because the book was published by Canon Press, Doug Wilson’s publishing arm.)

[Howl]

It just occurred to me that Trump was so successful with the reich-wing Catholics/Evangelicals/TeaVangelicals/Fundamentalists/Mormons precisely because he has no religious affiliation, none nada zero, so everyone could get under the big Trump umbrella with no conflict -- so obsessively focused on overturning Roe that nothing else really mattered.  

[Pecansforeveryone]

The follow up to that is because Trump was a means to an end for Christian Nationalists, just like they were to him, they have no ultimate loyalty to him. Doubly so now that Roe has been overturned. Trump you have been tossed aside for a younger model. Karma is a bitch. 

[Howl]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:35 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

Trump you have been tossed aside for a younger model. Karma is a bitch. 

Hey, this is timely! 

Key Evangelical Figures Turn On Trump: 'He Used Us'

One ripped the ex-president for acting "like a little elementary schoolchild." Another warned that if the GOP turns to him in 2024, "we will get destroyed.”

No sympathy for Trump or these yahoos. They used each other.