Erin Bates's Wedding - Part 2

[Mela99]

I was positive Smugz and Anna would have a honeymoon baby, based on the hand sex.

[singsingsing]

And remember Anna's disappointment when it took all of four months to conceive? Three kids later and she's exactly the same. She was talking about wanting twins when Marcus was like a month old.

[bal maiden]

And remember Anna's disappointment when it took all of four months to conceive? Three kids later and she's exactly the same. She was talking about wanting twins when Marcus was like a month old.

...which just shows you what a terrible lack of reproductive education they have, coupled with ridiculous expectations...

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I do not see why people are asking about pregnancy news yet so soon. After all the "honeymoon" baby is very rare. Then there is the fact they are still getting over sexual hang ups. The church/religion is the worst at informing how one deals with sexuality. There is a great Hitchen's quote I heard the other day while listing to the Thinking Atheist Podcast regarding sex and religion. I about died laughing, also there was discussion about how church singles groups have a lot of hook ups. I personally think the idea of you had sex before marriage so you are a failure feeds into the rampant sex going on in these group. Sorry for the unrelated little rant there. On the subject give the poor couple time and I want to tell the poster to get her nose out of their sexual business.

Well honeymoon babies are rare because most couples wait a while before trying for a baby. Me, my mum and my sister all fell pregnant the first cycle we tried for a baby.

But I agree, stop with the asking already! People starting asking us the day after our wedding!

[albanuadh_1]

Perhaps I'm writing on the wrong post but someone showed a bridal dress that was simply gorgeous. I've been trying to find it to show my daughter and I can't find it on either Part 1 or 2.

I can't recall who posted it either but several commented on how beautiful it was. Anyone remember the photo and/or where I could find it? Thanks.

[DGayle]

I didn't know Erin was even engaged. I never feel happy for these girls when they get engaged or married. All I can think about his how the overwhelming majority were kept so ignorant that they really didn't know they had any legal choice, and for those who realize that much, how many have enough education to get help if they leave? And for those who figure that much out, it's not like they're going to be allowed to stay part of the family because what if another kid gets "dangerous" ideas? Marriage traps them even more than they already were. Look how hard it's going to be for Sarah Jane to get out. She's fucked up because of all of this, and she's even more fucked now because how is she going to take care of 5 (6?) kids? Erin's now got the same shackle on her.

[nausicaa]

Perhaps I'm writing on the wrong post but someone showed a bridal dress that was simply gorgeous. I've been trying to find it to show my daughter and I can't find it on either Part 1 or 2.

I can't recall who posted it either but several commented on how beautiful it was. Anyone remember the photo and/or where I could find it? Thanks.

Was it the dress at the top of this discussion?

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 9&p=651106

There is also a beautiful wedding dress that Ralar posted from her cousin's(?) Hasidic wedding, if that's the one you're thinking of.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19254&start=20

ETA: I failed Algebra I twice, but my memory is like a steel trap on attractive modest wedding dresses. :embarrassed:

[albanuadh_1]

Dress #1 ! Thank you so much. :D

[HereticHick]

Slightly off topic, but I went to a piano recital last night, in a large concert hall, & I was reflected on how many opportunities I have to "dress up," if I choose, compared to the Duggars & Bates, and other ATI bible thumpers--esp. fundies who don't believe in dancing. And it makes me understand why their wedding pictures are so over the top. For many of these fundy women, being a bride, bridesmaid, or mother of the bride is their ONLY opportunity to wear formal wear, or even semi-formal wear. They have no proms, no homecoming dances, no christenings, no first communions. Since they are educated at SOTDRT, there are no graduation ceremonies or baccalaureate services, except for living room affairs they throw together themselves. They "homechurch" in crowded homes or garages. They don't attend the Opera (not Christian enough, too "foreign," too expensive), ballet (Nike!) or any other kind of dance performance. They don't attend theatre, except for the occasional (often outdoors & casual) Christian pageant. For all their professed love of classical music, they seem to rarely attend concerts-- except for church based recitals on rare occasions (have the Duggars even ever attended a performance of Handel's Messiah?) And there are no corporate holiday parties, or military balls. Or inaugural balls, or charity fundraisers.

For all their praise of "feminine beauty" they rarely get to actually dress up & be in a beautiful setting.

[EmiGirl]

Slightly off topic, but I went to a piano recital last night, in a large concert hall, & I was reflected on how many opportunities I have to "dress up," if I choose, compared to the Duggars & Bates, and other ATI bible thumpers--esp. fundies who don't believe in dancing. And it makes me understand why their wedding pictures are so over the top. For many of these fundy women, being a bride, bridesmaid, or mother of the bride is their ONLY opportunity to wear formal wear, or even semi-formal wear. They have no proms, no homecoming dances, no christenings, no first communions. Since they are educated at SOTDRT, there are no graduation ceremonies or baccalaureate services, except for living room affairs they throw together themselves. They "homechurch" in crowded homes or garages. They don't attend the Opera (not Christian enough, too "foreign," too expensive), ballet (Nike!) or any other kind of dance performance. They don't attend theatre, except for the occasional (often outdoors & casual) Christian pageant. For all their professed love of classical music, they seem to rarely attend concerts-- except for church based recitals on rare occasions (have the Duggars even ever attended a performance of Handel's Messiah?) And there are no corporate holiday parties, or military balls. Or inaugural balls, or charity fundraisers.

For all their praise of "feminine beauty" they rarely get to actually dress up & be in a beautiful setting.

Not just fundies. I live near the Bates' and even though I did get to go to 3 proms total and had 1 formal in college, after that there really aren't opportunities to dress up in our area. There's not an opera. I guess you could go to the Knoxville Symphony Orchestra, but that not really my thing. As far as theater goes, occasionally there will be something, but rarely and no one really dresses up for those times. I think the only time I went to an event that required dressing up it was CATS when I was like 10. I would love to have something to dress for, but the fact is in our area the options are very limited.

[GeoBQn]

Yeah, I think it is mostly major cities where people dress to the nines to go to things like the opera. In my university town, I wore business casual to go to an opera and I was far from underdressed when compared with other people. I wear formal attire for weddings, but the last wedding I went to had middle-aged people in jeans. Maybe there are some charity galas here that are formal, but those are few and far between.

[mrs]

They do get to dress up for their "Purity Balls"? Do the Bates/Duggars participate?

[GeoBQn]

They don't do Purity Balls. At least, it would be difficult to have a "ball" with no dancing and only hymns for music.

[uber frau]

Really, even if they're only dressing up for the weddings of their children and the children of close friends, there's so many damn children and so many damn weddings that they're still dressing up more than the average person.

[EmiGirl]

I think it depends on your definition of dressing up too. Most weddings (at least in my area) are pretty informal. I usually just wear black pants or maybe a dress with leggings. It could be that my circle of people are just informal though. But there really aren't opportunities for formal gowns and tuxes around here unless you're part of the Knoxville rich crowd. Then there are fund raisers and things like that that cost an arm and a leg to go to. There is the New Year's Eve Ball in the Ripley's Aquarium in Gatlinburg, but like I said, it's really expensive and not something my group of friends and family can generally afford.

[HereticHick]

Actually, there is a Knoxville Opera--I have friends who volunteer with it: http://www.knoxvilleopera.com/

And I remember going to see the Nutcracker in Knoxville as a kid (and loved it).

I'm not necessarily talking about formal gowns & tuxes--I'm talking about wearing something OTHER than a faded denim skirt & flip flops. As we've discussed before, the J'Slave rarely wear dresses. I grew up in a small Smoky Mountain town east of the Bates, but there were still opportunities to dress up, other than weddings--including concerts/recitals at churches (usually free), local community theater (cheap), office Christmas parties (even if "dry"), local ballet recitals (free), graduations... Do Duggar and Bates females even get special dresses at Easter?

[PennySycamore]

That's a good question about Easter dresses, Heretic Hick. That was always something I looked forward to as a little girl. Od course, lodges and fraternal organizations are forbidden to the Duggars, but my mom always had to have an evening dress just for Eastern Star installations. She was not at all a dressed up type person, but she did wear that evening dress several times a year.

[HereticHick]

PennySycamore-- Easter dresses (and maybe new shoes as well) were very exciting!

Excellent point about lodges & fraternal & veterans organizations--I come from a big Masonic/Eastern Star family, and also, traditionally men in my family have been Kiwanians (or even farther back in history--Odd Fellows). And if they had a small business, they were in the local chamber of commerce or even Rotary Club. So even in small towns, those organizations offer events to wear something better than flip flops. Oh--and Eagle Scout ceremonies!

For all the emphasis on running your own business, the ATI crowd are such separatists that I don't know if they even believe in joining local business organizations.

Basically, their opportunities to wear "dress up" clothes in secular settings is really really limited. Josh and Anna are the exception to the rule--his job at FRC has given them numerous non-church social events to attend.

[Georgiana]

There's probably some cost here too.

Dressy clothes are much more hit and miss at thrift shops. Same with "modest" dressy shoes for girls. I can see it being difficult to outfit 10-20 kids of varying sizes in dressy second hand attire. If you bought new dress outfits for all the children once a year, you're looking at easily $200-400 (if not more) for outfits they wouldn't get much wear from. I don't think many families have that spare cash, and they probably aren't willing to use it on something that will only be worn a few times.

[EmmieJ]

That's a good question about Easter dresses, Heretic Hick. That was always something I looked forward to as a little girl. Od course, lodges and fraternal organizations are forbidden to the Duggars, but my mom always had to have an evening dress just for Eastern Star installations. She was not at all a dressed up type person, but she did wear that evening dress several times a year.

I too remember getting a new dress for Easter Sunday, which would then be used throughout the spring and summer for any other dressy occasions, and the same goes for Christmas outfits. Especially when younger, my mom always got us pretty new dresses at the very least for these two occasions. During high school, we had a mother-daughter tea, and my mom and I went dress shopping together for that. Of course, the junior prom and the senior prom. I grew up in a small town about an hour from San Francisco, and we would go in once a year or so to see a show. I remember going to see Camelot with Richard Burton, and wearing a nice dress and dress coat for that performance.

But I think fundie girls don't get many special occasions, and certainly not special occasions that are all about them, besides their wedding day. So I could see why they would be eager for that rare opportunity to splurge on themselves, get a pretty (yet modest) dress, etc. That may be their one and only opportunity. After that, it's hurry up and make babies.

[ILoveJellybeans]

There's probably some cost here too.

Dressy clothes are much more hit and miss at thrift shops. Same with "modest" dressy shoes for girls. I can see it being difficult to outfit 10-20 kids of varying sizes in dressy second hand attire. If you bought new dress outfits for all the children once a year, you're looking at easily $200-400 (if not more) for outfits they wouldn't get much wear from. I don't think many families have that spare cash, and they probably aren't willing to use it on something that will only be worn a few times.

The Duggars have no excuse then, they have enough money to get a decent outfit for each child.

[Rachel333]

I remember wondering as a kid when people who don't go to church ever have a chance to get dressed up. I actually felt kind of bad for them.

In my experience, too, they create plenty of opportunities to dress up. I remember my homeschooled fundie friends always trying to get a dress for the next homeschool formal (no visible shoulders allowed, absolutely no dancing) and other similar events.

[HereticHick]

Ah, Rachel333, sounds like your fundie friends have more fun than the Bates & Duggars do!

I've always had great luck with dressy clothes at thrift/consignment shops (granted, more so at consignment shops)--lots of women wear/get photographed in a dress at a few events--all their family has seen them in it--and then they ditch it. But I agree it is a lot tougher for kids clothes.

I do feel a bit for Kelly Bates, having to purchase (probably) 4 different Mother-of-the-Bride dresses in a 12 month period!

[ADoyle90815]

I too remember getting a new dress for Easter Sunday, which would then be used throughout the spring and summer for any other dressy occasions, and the same goes for Christmas outfits. Especially when younger, my mom always got us pretty new dresses at the very least for these two occasions. During high school, we had a mother-daughter tea, and my mom and I went dress shopping together for that. Of course, the junior prom and the senior prom. I grew up in a small town about an hour from San Francisco, and we would go in once a year or so to see a show. I remember going to see Camelot with Richard Burton, and wearing a nice dress and dress coat for that performance.

But I think fundie girls don't get many special occasions, and certainly not special occasions that are all about them, besides their wedding day. So I could see why they would be eager for that rare opportunity to splurge on themselves, get a pretty (yet modest) dress, etc. That may be their one and only opportunity. After that, it's hurry up and make babies.

I also remember getting a new dress for Easter Sunday, even if most of the time, it was worn for when we went to my grandparents' house for dinner as well as for spring and summer dressy events. There was also a new dress for Christmas, and winter dressy events as well. I was in the band and orchestra, and in high school, I even had a black dress that I originally wore for a winter formal, but I was able to wear it for concerts after that event. I got a different dress for senior prom, as well as for graduation.

[Rachel333]

Ah, Rachel333, sounds like your fundie friends have more fun than the Bates & Duggars do!

Yeah, these are actually people who know the Duggars and I've even seen some of them on the show, but the Duggars rarely showed up to the more fun events (of course, neither did I). It seemed like broomball and the occasional birthday party was about it for them. I always kind of wondered why they weren't as social with the homeschooling community as the other homeschooling families were.