Who's Responsible for the Possible Gov't Shutdown?

[Curious]

H4LxMgBErz4

Here is an article that also describes the Jon Stewart clip, above: http://progressivepopulist.org/2013/10/ ... own-video/

My favorite line. This is regarding the WWII museum being closed:

“You hate the government, yet you rail like banshees if any of the services and benefits you like are taken away.”

[OkToBeTakei]

I really need a new lipstick. Reds and oranges don't look so good on me. I don't think I am brave enough to try purples but maybe something kind of pinky-purple? Suggestions?

My suggestion would be that you grow up.

[OkToBeTakei]

EPA is shut down. Federal courts/DOJ are shut down. National parks are shut down. Basically anything "touristy" in DC (ie: anything associated with the Smithsonian) is shut down. You can't get a gun permit or passport right now.

Those are a few of the things that are "non-essential."

Personally, I think if they are going to shut down the govt, they need to shut it down. Let people go without govt services for a few days and see how quick they start singing a different tune when their social security checks aren't in the mail because there is no mail and no one to cut SS checks and there are no flights because there are no air traffic controllers.

Once again, people don't care because they get theirs. My husband has worked for the federal govt for 25 years and we have no idea when he's getting paid again, but the good news is, he can apply for unemployment or apply at starbucks (they have a "morality clause" so he can't work a similar job :roll: ) if the shutdown goes on too long.

Despite this, I agree with Harry Reid and President Obama. They cannot allow the Republicans (or the Tea Party faction of the Republicans) to hold America hostage over the ACA. It's time someone told them NO you can't behave this way with the American people and I'm glad they have finally taken a solid stance. I just hope that the companies that those who have been sent home pay bills to understand that no job means payments are going to be late and will work with those people that have been furloughed.

That's a pretty crap situation for you. :(

Do the tea-party think that by alienating the electorate this way it will garner votes? Surely their ignorance is viewed for what it is and not as they wish that the masses blame the democrats?

[HomegirlRuby]

My suggestion would be that you grow up.

What brand is that? I love colors with creative names! I like "raisin hell" by benefit - too funny!! Seems we have lots of nail varnish experts and not many lipstick lovers?

[Curious]

What brand is that? I love colors with creative names! I like "raisin hell" by benefit - too funny!! Seems we have lots of nail varnish experts and not many lipstick lovers?

Ok, what am I missing that this seems to be an attempt at the "pedicure maneuver" only with lipstick? This thread has been civil and no one is trolling it, so color me confused.

[pattygbucks]

I wish there was a way to have an objective analysis of how it will really work-time will tell.... I have several FB friends posting that their costs are going up like this one:

Ok, just a little frustrated right now........my healthcare premium went up over 60%, yes it more than doubled, (I don't qualify for the subsidy)! So I decided to become more knowledgeable about my plan. I'm now paying for maternity and newborn care, (at age 50??), pediatric care, (it's just me on my plan), and other services that I'm now REQUIRED to carry.

My friend has BCBS. Does anyone have a first hand story about costs going down?

I've learned a lot by reading on FJ...and it has propelled me to research more about ACA. I support the overall concept, but the "unimportant" details are confusing. May 3, 2014 when my oldest graduates from college, we'll have real experience using the exchanges. Browsing through plans on the MA health connector, his lowest premium will be $168 with a $2000 deductible (over $4000/year). He can stay on my husband's plan (Tricare young adult), it will be $156/month. Of course if he can't get a job, his income will be low enough to qualify for a subsidy.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question though...a first hand account of costs going down.

[HomegirlRuby]

Just looking for suggestions as I have a very important meeting coming up and want to look my best! I should have added that corals don't go well with my skin coloring.

[OkToBeTakei]

Ok, what am I missing that this seems to be an attempt at the "pedicure maneuver" only with lipstick? This thread has been civil and no one is trolling it, so color me confused.

If memory serves the pedi move was practised in a thread HomeGirlRuby participated in and for some bizarre and as you said confusing reason now feels it is appropriate in this thread where we are discussing politics and the very real hardships and also opinions members have regarding it.

[realist51]

I can't call it a first-hand account YET because she hasn't actually purchased the policy, but it looks like my 25-year-old daughter's costs will go down by about $30/month when she switches from our plan to the bronze level plan available through BCBS. That said, though, it doesn't look as if she will have the same level of coverage. I think her co-pays and deductibles might be higher. This is STILL better than the alternative, which would have been no insurance starting the day she turns 26. Her employer doesn't offer insurance, and her pre-existing conditions would make it impossible for her to buy her own individual policy. I know SEVERAL young adults in this position. One is a friend who has been diabetic since she was a toddler. The day she turned 19 (this was before the ACA provision that young adults could stay on the parents' policies), she was off her parents' policy. Her mom was frantic. She needed several hundred dollars worth of diabetes supplies per month, and she simply didn't have the money. Fortunately for them, they lived in Massachusetts, and MA started its health plan right around the time my friend needed it. Another young friend of mine was in a car accident--hit by someone under the influence--and seriously injured when she was 13. She used her "lifetime benefits" at that time, and has been unable to get insurance for herself since. The ACA is a Godsend for her and her family. My point is, I guess, that premium costs going down is not the ONLY factor we need to consider.

[HomegirlRuby]

If memory serves the pedi move was practised in a thread HomeGirlRuby participated in and for some bizarre and as you said confusing reason now feels it is appropriate in this thread where we are discussing politics and the very real hardships and also opinions members have regarding it.

Is that what that was?! Oooh!

I thought going off topic and asking fashion related questions in random threads was just the "in" thing to do.

Back to everyone complaining about not receiving their government handouts and being upset that republicans don't want to be forced to give up the cash they actually earned in order to steer this country towards communism.

I guess I should have posted my question under "worldly distractions!"

[Nothing2CHere]

Nor should he. Obamacare is the law of the land. It was passed by Congress, signed by the president, upheld by the US supreme court, and it is already going into effect. There is no reason for President Obama to be cowed by such legislative extortion.

Yet, rather than accept the reality of Obamacare, Republicans are using the prospect of a government shutdown and/or a default on the nation's debt to try to stop it.

In key respects, this dispiriting series of events is the logical conclusion of the Republican party's descent into madness. The GOP has become a party dominated by a group of politicians who are fundamentally nihilistic, contemptuous of democracy and willing (even proud) to operate outside the long-accepted norms of American democracy.

This is what I see as the Irony of All Ironies about this government hostage situation by the teabaggers. They are the ones who claim that their main purpose in life is to defend the Constitution. We must do things by the Constitution! The Consitituion is the law of the land!

And yet, when a bill that became a law through all the proper channels, and was upheld through all the proper channels, they refuse to accept that this IS the way that the Constitution intended for our country to run, and now want to disregard their sacred governmental scripture that they have vowed to protect.

[OkToBeTakei]

Yeah right the first time ........grow up.

[HoneyBunny]

It's amusing that people are blaming the ACA for an increase in health insurance premiums. Our premiums have gone up significantly every year even before ACA.

[realist51]

Is that what that was?! Oooh!

I thought going off topic and asking fashion related questions in random threads was just the "in" thing to do.

Back to everyone complaining about not receiving their government handouts and being upset that republicans don't want to be forced to give up the cash they actually earned in order to steer this country towards communism.

I guess I should have posted my question under "worldly distractions!"

I don't know anyone who is looking for "government handouts." EVERYONE I know who is looking forward to being helped by this law, including me, wants to pay into the system. The problem, though, is that, they way that system is set up now, we are precluded from doing so. In addition to the examples I have already given, I have myself. My husband and I have worked ALL of our adult lives, and we have paid for our health insurance all of our adult lives. A few years ago, my husband lost his job, and the only new job he could find was in a different state. He took the job, and I stayed on the other side of the country. Why? Because giving up the healthcare benefits offered by my job was not an option. My husband is 8 years older than I am and approaching retirement age. When he retires, I will not be able to be covered by his work insurance plan. Once the ACA passed, we were willing to take the risk of me quitting my job with benefits and moving to be with him and take a job without benefits. Because I now have the option of PAYING to be part of a health plan. (My minor preexisting condition precluded me from doing so before the ACA.) As for people wanting government handouts...how do you think uninsured people are paid for now???? Hospitals are not allowed to turn away the bleeding accident victims who show up at the emergency room. When those victims don't have the money to pay, where do you think the money comes from?

[docmom]

It's amusing that people are blaming the ACA for an increase in health insurance premiums. Our premiums have gone up significantly every year even before ACA.

This!!! The reason premiums are going up isn't the ACA, it's because medical care costs more and more. The ACA, if all eligible healthy young people sign up, will decrease premiums because you'll have a bunch of non-users of the service paying into the pool. That's how inusurance works!

You would not believe some of the crap my patients tell me they've read about the ACA- everyone will be required to have a microchip of data implanted, anyone over the age of 60 can't have an MRI, you won't be allowed to choose your doctor, etc.

[J'ean Skirt]

I've learned a lot by reading on FJ...and it has propelled me to research more about ACA. I support the overall concept, but the "unimportant" details are confusing. May 3, 2014 when my oldest graduates from college, we'll have real experience using the exchanges. Browsing through plans on the MA health connector, his lowest premium will be $168 with a $2000 deductible (over $4000/year). He can stay on my husband's plan (Tricare young adult), it will be $156/month. Of course if he can't get a job, his income will be low enough to qualify for a subsidy.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question though...a first hand account of costs going down.

Moving to the exchanges from small business insurance our costs are dropping from over $1700 a month last January to under $1100 a month this January (if we move to the exchanges, which I'm not sure we're going to, I'm waiting for the small business exchange pricing to come out).

Oh, and that drop in premium is for the Platinum level with almost no co-pays or deductibles. It's better insurance than we're getting now. We can drop much lower (around $700 a month) if we choose a silver level plan. A bronze plan will drop our premiums by over $1200 a month (from over $1700 last January to $540 this January). The bronze plan isn't quite as good as our current insurance, but it's not that much worse than what we're getting now.

Our income is high enough we don't qualify for subsidies.

Additionally, the drop has made it possible for us to consider hiring people. At $12000 a year, in addition to salary, it wasn't possible for us to hire. In our field, employees expect insurance and we were a non-competitive employer without insurance. Now, we can fund their insurance, but it's much, much cheaper than our small business plan.

[Coconut Flan]

It seems that they don't like the topic of the thread and can't muster the nerve to close without reading.

My neighbor said her daughter and SIL had to cancel their trip to Cali for his father's birthday. Even though he's furloughed all leave is canceled. He has to stay in town. I'm not sure how that makes sense but I'm guessing it's so that they can catch up quickly when the furloughs end. He has a co-worker with a pre-paid trip to Hawaii coming up that she says she's taking no matter what.

[Full enough quiver]

Wouldn't it be awful if the US became more socialist? I mean, the Swedes are just miserable. I bet they just hate the socialized medicine and generous family leave. The poor Australians must hate their welfare system. It's so much better here. Oh, wait, nevermind. USA!!!USA!!!!

The republican party operates on fear. Their policies don't benefit you unless you are wealthy and male. Since women, minorities, and poor people outnumber rich, white men, the best way to get votes from the poorer people is to play off their fears, and count on lack of education and pack mentality to do the rest. You can't trust the media, the liberals control all of it, except FOX news. Communism! Oh no! They're going to take our guns! Muslims and brown people! So scary. The republicans will keep you safe from all those scary poor people and brown people that want to ruin your life. If you, yourself are poor, it isn't your fault, it's the fault of all those other people that are different than you. If they'd quit leaching off the government, you'd be rich! And, don't forget to save the fetuses. Those bad democrats want to kill all the babies.

[docmom]

Why is it sooo important to the teabaggers to derail the ACA now? Why are they holding the country hostage now? They are worried that it will actually work. They are worried that people will actually like it. They know that if that happens, they don't stand a chance in hell of ever repealing it (Social Security, Medicare anyone?). If they honestly thought it would be a disaster, then they'd let it go ahead. Watch it fail and sail into office in the next election on the promise of repeal.

[realist51]

Wouldn't it be awful if the US became more socialist? I mean, the Swedes are just miserable. I bet they just hate the socialized medicine and generous family leave. The poor Australians must hate their welfare system. It's so much better here. Oh, wait, nevermind. USA!!!USA!!!!

The republican party operates on fear. Their policies don't benefit you unless you are wealthy and male. Since women, minorities, and poor people outnumber rich, white men, the best way to get votes from the poorer people is to play off their fears, and count on lack of education and pack mentality to do the rest. You can't trust the media, the liberals control all of it, except FOX news. Communism! Oh no! They're going to take our guns! Muslims and brown people! So scary. The republicans will keep you safe from all those scary poor people and brown people that want to ruin your life. If you, yourself are poor, it isn't your fault, it's the fault of all those other people that are different than you. If they'd quit leaching off the government, you'd be rich! And, don't forget to save the fetuses. Those bad democrats want to kill all the babies.

I've lived in Europe, and I've lived in the US. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. What frustrated me in Europe was that people really did seem to have the mentality that, if there was a problem or a need, they would have to wait for the government to fix it. As an American, I found this kind of surprising. For example, the German town I lived in had a shortage of preschool/daycare slots, so a LOT of women who wanted to work were at home and frustrated because they had no way to provide for their kids. I, in my American way, said, "Well, if so many of us need childcare, why don't we just start a daycare center ourselves?" I was told that this was not possible because there were waiting lists for people who wanted daycare licenses, and the licenses had to be filled in a particular order. On the OTHER hand, I have to admire the Europeans for considering the big picture of social, emotional, and financial needs of all the people when solving problems. I would agree that women, children, and the less wealthy are more secure, less anxious, and probably healthier there than here. The good health of the children becomes better health for many of the adults, who are then better able to contribute to the overall economy. I personally am not wedded to government being the answer to most or even many of our problems. There are times, though, when, through a series of otherwise unintended consequences, we end up with a problem that must be addressed on a systemic level. Where we are with healthcare now is one such problem. What we have now is untenable. We have been discussing the problem for most of my life. We really do have to solve it somehow. For the people who don't like the ACA, I say, "What alternative solution did you offer when we were having the discussion?" If you answer was to keep doing what we are doing, then I encourage you do look into the long-term projections of what it will cost us in terms of government spending, employer obligations, and lost economic opportunity because American companies must compete with international companies that do not have the expense of providing health insurance for their employees. (Not because the employees don't get healthcare; because it is not the EMPLOYER'S responsibility to provide it."

[HomegirlRuby]

Yeah - socialism worked awesome for the Soviet Union! Go big government!!! Ebil republicans!!11!!!!1

[aelar]

Yeah - socialism worked awesome for the Soviet Union! Go big government!!! Ebil republicans!!11!!!!1

This is why we can't have nice things.

[HomegirlRuby]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Don't know about you, but I work hard and I do have nice things. Nice things shouldn't be given to people simply because they feel they have a sense of entitlement.

Some food for thought:

"Back in my teaching days, many years ago, one of the things I liked to ask the class to consider was this: Imagine a government agency with only two tasks: (1) building statues of Benedict Arnold and (2) providing life-saving medications to children. If this agency's budget were cut, what would it do?

The answer, of course, is that it would cut back on the medications for children. Why? Because that would be what was most likely to get the budget cuts restored. If they cut back on building statues of Benedict Arnold, people might ask why they were building statues of Benedict Arnold in the first place."

- Thomas Sowell

[Verin Sedai]

Yeah - socialism worked awesome for the Soviet Union! Go big government!!! Ebil republicans!!11!!!!1

Are you here to talk or are you here to troll? There's enough room here for people on all sides of the issue (I'm a right-leaning moderate who knows enough about ACA to be engraved on a grain of rice, but I'm playing nice), but you seem to just want to piss people off. Yesterday I backed you up on another thread because I thought you were being treated unfairly, but here you're just kind of being shady.

[docmom]

Yeah - socialism worked awesome for the Soviet Union! Go big government!!! Ebil republicans!!11!!!!1

This type of comment is the equivalent of me saying all republicans are fascists and look how well fascism worked for Germany. In other words, wildly over-reaching and essentially non-contributory to reasonable debate.