Who's Responsible for the Possible Gov't Shutdown?

[GolightlyGrrl]

Huff Po has a slew or articles about the shutdown:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Including one about the congress critters boozing it up:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/3 ... 20023.html

Yet, somehow I remain sober.

[Curious]

So I have a question for some of the older members. I'm in my 20's and I don't remember threat of government shut downs every few years happening when I was younger-but I also wasn't super politically cognizant.

Did this happen regularly, the way it does now, prior to the 2000's?

There was a brief shutdown around 18 years ago, but they are pretty uncommon.

Even though my husband has been furloughed, I hope this is a wake up call for people to stop voting obstructionist folks into office. Holding the country hostage because your party lost is completely unacceptable.

Congress has failed to do their job. They are still being paid, while hundreds of thousands of Americans are now furloughed. If anyone else failed to do their job, they would not be paid. If Congresspeople were not paid until the budget passed, there would have been no shutdown.

They are going to do the same damn thing over the debt ceiling, as well. They are going to tank our economy again and then blame it on the President, when he has nothing to do with it. They don't care about the American people. They are just upset there is a *gasp* black man in the white house.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Love it!

[Coconut Flan]

The same woman who posted the below on FB spent 8 hours bitching on FB because her daughter's SSI check was late.

BHO says he is willing to work with Iran but not with his own Congress neither he nor the Democrats would even talk with the Republicans about keeping the federal government funded to prevent a government shutdown. Can you say most divisive destructive president in U.S. History?

BHO and the Democrats have no one to blame for shutting down the federal government but themselves, PERIOD.

I wish I could get through to her, but I'd rather talk to a turnip.

[Savoring Samsara]

I live in the mid-west and I'm just not seeing an increase in racism or racial bumper-stickers. And there are several pages of Bush/monkey photos available: https://www.google.com/search?q=bush+mo ... =869&dpr=1 . So to say that this is a new thing since Obama became president is not correct. It has nothing to do with the race of either Obama or Bush and everything about people- both democrats and Rebuplicans- expressing their frustrations. It is appropriate? No. But it isn't about the hue of the President's skin.

Comparing Bush to a monkey was rude and unfunny. Comparing Obama to a monkey invokes long-standing racist tropes and beliefs about people of color being animals and less than human, in a way that comparing a white person to a monkey does not. If you don't see the racial component of many of the supposedly humorous insults leveled at Obama, you have a lot to learn.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Comparing Bush to a monkey was rude and unfunny. Comparing Obama to a monkey invokes long-standing racist tropes and beliefs about people of color being animals and less than human, in a way that comparing a white person to a monkey does not. If you don't see the racial component of many of the supposedly humorous insults leveled at Obama, you have a lot to learn.

This!

[FreeJosie]

I live in the mid-west and I'm just not seeing an increase in racism or racial bumper-stickers. And there are several pages of Bush/monkey photos available: https://www.google.com/search?q=bush+mo ... =869&dpr=1 . So to say that this is a new thing since Obama became president is not correct. It has nothing to do with the race of either Obama or Bush and everything about people- both democrats and Rebuplicans- expressing their frustrations. It is appropriate? No. But it isn't about the hue of the President's skin.

I don't know, there were some pretty damn ugly comments on social media the day after Obama won his second term. Race may not be a factor for all, but it definitely is for some. The things I read just turned my stomach; you'd have thought it was 1955 instead of 2012.

[Mecca]

The same woman who posted the below on FB spent 8 hours bitching on FB because her daughter's SSI check was late.

I wish I could get through to her, but I'd rather talk to a turnip.

Stupid me decided to go back to Facebook recently. Today has been especially vomit inducing and only reminds me why I deleted my Facebook account in the first place.

I had a poster talk about this being a perfect day for the rapture because she cannot take anymore of the Democrats, blah, blah, blah. She prays that Jesus comes back to take her away from all this. Because I was feeling rather snarky today and sick of seeing all the nonstop nonsense, I posted on her status "Can you please take the Suicide Caucus with you, please?!?" That went over real well. LOL!

[Mama Mia]

First of all, most federal employees except those deemed "essential" (not necessary -- I'd like to think my co-workers and I are necessary, even if not essential) or those whose positions are appropriated will be furloughed. I resent people speaking of those to be furloughed as janitors and those at the lower end of the fianacial totem pole. I am an attorney. I work for the federal governement. I could work for a law firm and make much more money than I do as a fed, but I believe in what I do. I help people screwed by their employers.

My fiance is also a fed. He has 2 master degrees. As a civillian DoD employee, he was furloughed for several days last summer, due to sequestration. He will escape furlough in the short term because his position is appropriated. Neither of us are poor, uneducated, slobs sucking from the federal teat. We are educated professionals who could earn many times our salaries in the private workforce, but choose to work for the federal government and maybe do some good.

I'll step off my soapbox now . . . . . .

Wow, your co- workers at the lower end of the hierarchy must just love being thought of as "poor uneducated slobs sucking at the federal teat" . How ironic that you are out there being a do-gooder for people being screwed. :roll:

Even if you, personally, are just trying to point out that not everyone who works for the government is a lower level employee, your elitism is kind of stunning.

[OkToBeTakei]

There was a brief shutdown around 18 years ago, but they are pretty uncommon.

Even though my husband has been furloughed, I hope this is a wake up call for people to stop voting obstructionist folks into office. Holding the country hostage because your party lost is completely unacceptable.

Congress has failed to do their job. They are still being paid, while hundreds of thousands of Americans are now furloughed. If anyone else failed to do their job, they would not be paid. If Congresspeople were not paid until the budget passed, there would have been no shutdown.

They are going to do the same damn thing over the debt ceiling, as well. They are going to tank our economy again and then blame it on the President, when he has nothing to do with it. They don't care about the American people. They are just upset there is a *gasp* black man in the white house.

Pretty much the way it is being reported across the water. I suppose distance gives a certain lack of politeness or excuse making when levelling the blame.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ican-party

There is a frustrating tendency in American political reporting to adopt a position of "both sides-ism" – as in, "both sides" are equally to blame for the nation's chronic political dysfunction. Sometimes, it must be said, this assessment is correct. After all, the US political system was practically designed to breed legislative gridlock.

Not this time, however.

There is one party that is solely to blame for the first government shutdown in 17 years. And it's the Republican party.

Indeed, the debate happening in Washington right now is not even between Democrats and Republicans. It's not even about the deficit, or the budget, or government spending priorities. Rather, it is one strictly occurring between Republicans who are trying to find some magic bullet to destroy "Obamacare" – the country's fiscal health be damned.

In the House of Representatives, bills that would allow the government to continue to operate were amended with provisions defunding or delaying Obamacare. This is, for Democrats, a nonstarter. The reason is obvious: the Affordable Care Act is the president's signature achievement and he is not going to sign a bill that undoes or even delays it.

Nor should he. Obamacare is the law of the land. It was passed by Congress, signed by the president, upheld by the US supreme court, and it is already going into effect. There is no reason for President Obama to be cowed by such legislative extortion.

Yet, rather than accept the reality of Obamacare, Republicans are using the prospect of a government shutdown and/or a default on the nation's debt to try to stop it.

In key respects, this dispiriting series of events is the logical conclusion of the Republican party's descent into madness. The GOP has become a party dominated by a group of politicians who are fundamentally nihilistic, contemptuous of democracy and willing (even proud) to operate outside the long-accepted norms of American democracy.

In the US system of government, compromise is perhaps its most essential element. Republicans must work with Democrats; the House of Representatives must work with the Senate; and both bodies must find common ground with the president. It's not always pretty, but it generally works.

The problem today is that the modern GOP thinks about compromise in the same way that imperial Japanese soldiers thought about surrender in the second world war. At least in defeat, Republicans can argue they fought to the last; but by compromising, they would be surrendering their principles.

That's the only explanation for how members of the party can view the possibility of a government shutdown – or even worse, the catastrophe of debt default – as somehow a better option than reconciling themselves to the abomination that, bizarrely, they believe Obamacare to be.

Granted, this isn't the view of all Republican office-holders – or even a majority. But it is the view of the party's most extreme supporters, and today, it's these individuals who are guiding the party's leadership.

In fact, if the Republican speaker of the House of Representatives, John Boehner, were to bring a clean budget bill to the House floor, with no provisions defunding or delaying Obamacare, it would almost certainly pass – with Democrats and Republicans joining together to support it. It would then get majority approval in the Senate and be signed by President Obama.

So, why hasn't that happened yet? Because Boehner has pledged only to pass legislation that has the support of enough Republican members (unaided by Democrats) to be enacted. Since that is impossible right now, the government will shut down.

In the end, however, we have a pretty good sense of how this will turn out. The government will shut down for a few days, but perhaps more; and the US will come perilously close to a debt default. In the end, however, semi-sane Republicans will come to their senses, concede defeat and pass a budget resolution and debt limit extension with Democratic support.

That the US will have come to such a pass – for no reason other than the extremism of the Republican party – is an important reminder of who is blame for the governing dysfunction that has come to define the US democracy today.

[Peas n carrots]

Pretty much the way it is being reported across the water. I suppose distance gives a certain lack of politeness or excuse making when levelling the blame.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ican-party

THIS. There is no "both sides to blame" here there is one side to blame. The Tea Party has hijacked the Republican Party. The aren't shy about hating Obama and their purpose is to reduce government. The old guard Republicans are so scared of being primaried (which is now a verb) that they do little to stop Ted Cruz & Co from running the show.

I agree too that Gerrymandering has a lot to do with this too. This is why voting is important - even in primaries. The full on crazies always show up, and that is how you get folks like Ted Cruz elected to congress.

[AnnieC 305]

TL:DR

Has anyone else picked up on this?

morganguyton.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/theology-of-government-shutdown/

[AnywhereButHere]

Stupid me decided to go back to Facebook recently. Today has been especially vomit inducing and only reminds me why I deleted my Facebook account in the first place.

I had a poster talk about this being a perfect day for the rapture because she cannot take anymore of the Democrats, blah, blah, blah. She prays that Jesus comes back to take her away from all this. Because I was feeling rather snarky today and sick of seeing all the nonstop nonsense, I posted on her status "Can you please take the Suicide Caucus with you, please?!?" That went over real well. LOL!

My friends on Facebook are split pretty evenly, so I find myself alternately, internally cheering (office cubical – out loud would get me funny looks) and rolling my eyes. One of the eye roll generators posted a Donald Trump meme which almost sent my eyes out of their sockets. I mean really, who in god’s name uses Donald Trump as an authority on anything other than asshattery?

[yarabess]

You must work for ACE.

Yep so for now I am still going to work, but we lost our centrally funded interns. That really bugs me, because these are the guys just out of college, who really haven't had the time to build up any significant savings. They will get paid this week, but they don't know when their pay will come after that, but they still have student loans, rent, and food to pay for. If it goes on too long some are going to quit and go to work for private industry, which is sad because we will lose some really talented hard working people.

[smiley mcgee]

This gem popped up on my Facebook feed this morning from the most frustrating teabagger that I know.

"With the Government "shut down" this is only proving the TEA PARTIES point! We are seeing what a limited government looks like! I'm sorry for those who are not going to work and getting paid, However the debt clock just slowed down."

Ugh. I don't think this is any sane persons idea of what a limited government would/should look like. But I'm not sure he really has anything sane to say at all. Most of his 'news' posts are from The Blaze so I really shouldn't be surprised.

Another good one from the same guy:

"I feel real sorry for this Nation! Not only have we turned a blind eye to the President but we are becoming a bunch of Low information who get Voters who just want American idol and gets their (news) for Jon Stewart and Colbert?"

[Ariel]

I love getting my news from Jon Stewart. He says everything I'm feeling articulately :)

[docmom]

THIS. There is no "both sides to blame" here there is one side to blame. The Tea Party has hijacked the Republican Party. The aren't shy about hating Obama and their purpose is to reduce government. The old guard Republicans are so scared of being primaried (which is now a verb) that they do little to stop Ted Cruz & Co from running the show.

I agree too that Gerrymandering has a lot to do with this too. This is why voting is important - even in primaries. The full on crazies always show up, and that is how you get folks like Ted Cruz elected to congress.

Yes, yes, yes!!! I am SICK of NPRs "balanced' reporting that hosts interviews with tea party crazies and gives credence to the idea that there are two sides to the shut down. There should be no compromise on the Affordable Care Act. We are being held hostage by a disgruntled minority.

[Mecca]

My friends on Facebook are split pretty evenly, so I find myself alternately, internally cheering (office cubical – out loud would get me funny looks) and rolling my eyes. One of the eye roll generators posted a Donald Trump meme which almost sent my eyes out of their sockets. I mean really, who in god’s name uses Donald Trump as an authority on anything other than asshattery?

Why people trust a guy who has hair that looks like roadkill is beyond me.

Lucky you for having a pretty even split. That would almost be like heaven for me. :lol: I guess I am a glutton for punishment, but I cannot help but find all the yapping and moaning fascinating. Some of the threads I have seen over the last few days have been filled with so much alarming misinformation, plus a lot of laugh out loud moments, that my eyes are sore.

[RosyDaisy]

Who's to blame. That's easy. Both parties. They each have their own agenda, and the welfare of the American people isn't part of it.

[Verin Sedai]

I've got bunches of libertarian friends on FB who are all "Isn't it funny that the government has 'non-essential services'", and "Government shutdown is like libertarian Christmas!", and "Gee, doesn't seem to be much that we're missing in a shutdown..."

To which I am just inwardly screaming as I think of my kids' WIC checks, my husband's family's GI Bill and disabled veteran payments, not to mention all the people that I don't know who don't know when they will be going back to work and if they're ever going to be paid for the time off.

And I don't say anything because I used to be libertarian too until I was poor and had a baby and needed the help... and I still haven't figured out how to not be at least a little bit ashamed. /sigh

[halfheartedheroine]

I wondered how on earth I was only getting rational responses to the shutdown all over my Facebook, until I realized that I'd hidden several people from my news feed. Well, apparently that worked lol

[HomegirlRuby]

I really need a new lipstick. Reds and oranges don't look so good on me. I don't think I am brave enough to try purples but maybe something kind of pinky-purple? Suggestions?

[jaelh]

I'm now paying for maternity and newborn care, (at age 50??), pediatric care, (it's just me on my plan), and other services that I'm now REQUIRED to carry.

Patty - here's the thing.

Even if those things weren't written into your policy, you'd still be paying for them.

That's how insurance works.

You pay for things you don't need, in the expectation when you need something else (say, a hip replacement of the kind only usually required by old folk) there are enough younger people paying in to cover it. If you were only paying for things you required, then insurance wouldn't work.

The people that companies want to carry - healthy younger people who aren't pregnant - don't need insurance like children, expectant mothers and older people. But everyone else needs them to pay into the system, because they're paying in the $$$ for everyone else.

Over time, those healthy young people will grow old and need to access insurance money for their treatment. And then *they* will require other people to be paying in.

Right now, you're investing in your own, future care - you're paying for those things that others need, with the expectation that those people will pay for your care later.

That's why those things are on your policy. Taking them off won't make your insurance any cheaper - the money still has to come from somewhere.

[Daisy4]

I've got bunches of libertarian friends on FB who are all "Isn't it funny that the government has 'non-essential services'", and "Government shutdown is like libertarian Christmas!", and "Gee, doesn't seem to be much that we're missing in a shutdown..."

To which I am just inwardly screaming as I think of my kids' WIC checks, my husband's family's GI Bill and disabled veteran payments, not to mention all the people that I don't know who don't know when they will be going back to work and if they're ever going to be paid for the time off.

And I don't say anything because I used to be libertarian too until I was poor and had a baby and needed the help... and I still haven't figured out how to not be at least a little bit ashamed. /sigh

just ask them if they know anyone with cancer. no new clinical trials are starting which means that every day this shutdown is happening puts us one day further from having a cure. for some people, this shutdown is literally life or death.

[Curious]

EPA is shut down. Federal courts/DOJ are shut down. National parks are shut down. Basically anything "touristy" in DC (ie: anything associated with the Smithsonian) is shut down. You can't get a gun permit or passport right now.

Those are a few of the things that are "non-essential."

Personally, I think if they are going to shut down the govt, they need to shut it down. Let people go without govt services for a few days and see how quick they start singing a different tune when their social security checks aren't in the mail because there is no mail and no one to cut SS checks and there are no flights because there are no air traffic controllers.

Once again, people don't care because they get theirs. My husband has worked for the federal govt for 25 years and we have no idea when he's getting paid again, but the good news is, he can apply for unemployment or apply at starbucks (they have a "morality clause" so he can't work a similar job :roll: ) if the shutdown goes on too long.

Despite this, I agree with Harry Reid and President Obama. They cannot allow the Republicans (or the Tea Party faction of the Republicans) to hold America hostage over the ACA. It's time someone told them NO you can't behave this way with the American people and I'm glad they have finally taken a solid stance. I just hope that the companies that those who have been sent home pay bills to understand that no job means payments are going to be late and will work with those people that have been furloughed.