Who's Responsible for the Possible Gov't Shutdown?

[Ariel]

Please note that these "shutdowns" generally did not involve the entire federal government, only a few agencies or departments. Even the current possible shutdown does not involve air traffic controllers, FBI, Homeland Security, and many other personnel deemed necessary. However, the janitors who clean buildings will not work and will not be paid. Those at the lower end of the financial totem pole are, again, often the most affected.

Here's a better analysis of past "shutdowns." http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... round.html

Let's keep in mind that sequestration, no raises for several years...and now the threat of shutdown is harming many. many people.

Thanks!!

[nelliebelle1197]

I think it's both parties that are at fault. This is just a game of chicken, or poker, whatever. Neither party wants to fold, or blink first. Sadly, as gustava pointed out, it's the people living paycheck to paycheck that suffer the most. Worse yet, Congress members have to be paid by law so they cant suffer consequences. Of course, they wouldn't anyway, as evidenced by all those pay raises they've been giving themselves the past few years. Because they've been doing such a fine job and because the economy is not in the shitter. :roll:

California passed a law a few years ago that required lawmakers not get paid for every day there was no budget. Guess what happened the year after the law became effective? Budget passed on time! Although, I'm sure it helped that they also changed the law to require majority instead of two-thirds of the votes to pass. This whole situation is so infuriating. Lawmakers: just do your damn job already and quit muckin' around!!

(sorry for typos, ranting on phone sucks)

Ummm... are you serious? Democrats are being held hostage by about 40 crazy Republicans. It is not a matter of "blinking". It is a matter of policy and the fact that the Republicans have no sense what this country needs and what governance really is. The Democrats cannot do anything without undoing signature social safety legislation and damaging the poor and middle class even more.

[CallmeChaCha]

Ummm... are you serious? Democrats are being held hostage by about 40 crazy Republicans. It is not a matter of "blinking". It is a matter of policy and the fact that the Republicans have no sense what this country needs and what governance really is. The Democrats cannot do anything without undoing signature social safety legislation and damaging the poor and middle class even more.

The thing is, this isn't the first time this has happened. This has been building. Both parties, at some point, decided they were not going to compromise on something. In this case, the Republicans refuse to compromise on the ACA. They don't want to lose on this because . In my opinion (I can have one, right?), both parties are at fault because of past history with refusal to compromise on certain things, and one is more at fault than the other for this particular situation.

[HoneyBunny]

There DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A COMPROMISE!! It's a LAW! The compromise was in 2009 to get the ACA bill passed, which is when it was signed by the president and became law. It was then upheld by the Supreme Court.

There is no doubt-those tantrum throwing, hissy fit having Tea Partiers and their Republican out-of control parents are to blame.

This is one time I'd like to bring out the plumbing line.

[OkToBeTakei]

When political parties bicker like this it really just proves they absolutely do not have the interests of anything but themselves.

Let's see, a chance or at least a beginning for everybody to have healthcare. Really should be a no brainier for any advanced society. Instead create even further hardship to the working man by throwing a tantrum.

Incredible really :(

[funpal]

They are both at fault! Congress hasn't been able to work together or compromise for several years now. They all are out for their own self and interests. The Hell with the American people ! This will keep getting worse no matter who controls Congress or is President. The Only Solution is Term Limits for All Elected Officals!!!!

[Mela99]

According to my FB, it's all due to the poor, poor leadership from the White House and nobody wanting to play with the reasonable and oh-so-saintly Republican party

[Evilbad]

My husband and I are both federal civilians and got sent home today. It's absurd and both parties are to blame.

[Becket70]

I've been voting a long, long time now. I do not recall the animus that we currently are subjected to, mostly from the GOP. From my perspective, the problem is that, in the past, the GOP did not scare me. I didn't agree with them but they did not make me break out in a cold sweat. Today, with the Tea Party seemingly in charge, I am more scared of a government run by the Tea Party than any other outcome. These Tea Party people cannot be reasoned with and they relish the idea of chaos. They hate the President and destroying him is Mission #1. It's a dangerous road we are going down. The turnout in off-year elections is historically low. If that trend continues, there is a good chance the GOP can take the Senate. Tea Party types in charge of both houses of Congress....be afraid.

[rward]

They are both at fault! Congress hasn't been able to work together or compromise for several years now. They all are out for their own self and interests. The Hell with the American people ! This will keep getting worse no matter who controls Congress or is President. The Only Solution is Term Limits for All Elected Officals!!!!

You can't compromise with someone whose stated goal is to not compromise with you. (Aka, the Republicans.)

I am in agreement with you about term limits, though.

[nolongerIFBx]

If the Republicans hate Obamacare so much why didn't they come up with an alternative? When are they going to come up with some solid, good ideas and policies on actually getting our country back on track instead of acting like a bunch of spoiled sports who are pissed because some black dude with a funny name resides in the White House?

Why drag race into it? I don't know one person who is upset because our President is of African/Caucasian descent. I know plenty of people who are upset because of his political beliefs. Those "spoiled sports" were just as pissed when a white guy from Arkansas was in the White House. People are inflammed enough without adding inflammatory remarks that have nothing to do with the issues.

[PennySycamore]

They are both at fault! Congress hasn't been able to work together or compromise for several years now. They all are out for their own self and interests. The Hell with the American people ! This will keep getting worse no matter who controls Congress or is President. The Only Solution is Term Limits for All Elected Officals!!!!

It used to be that both sides could work together and compromise, but no longer. The Teabaggers are a bunch of unreasonable children that think that other people's suffering is funny. They'd rather see the country go to hell just because they can't stand that a black man (especially a smart black man like Obama) was elected President.

[realist51]

As of today, I will never again cast a vote for a Republican. They are throwing a fit over a law that was legitimately passed by both houses, was signed by the President, and was vetted by the Supreme Court. They have spent billions of dollars taking vote after vote to repeal the law. Now, they would rather hold the economy of the country hostage than follow protocol or accept that what they want is not going to happen. If we ALL acted like this, we would quickly become one of those countries that can do nothing, solve no problems, count on no processes or procedures. The kind of country I used to look at in confusion. I remember Italy through most of my childhood, unable to keep a government for, it seemed, longer than six months. At this point, the CONTENT of what they want is much, much less important than their behavior. Too bad. I happen to believe that the country is best served by two parties that can provide balance and perspective. Unfortunately, what the one is providing is not balance. It is unbalanced.

[PennySycamore]

Why drag race into it? I don't know one person who is upset because our President is of African/Caucasian descent. I know plenty of people who are upset because of his political beliefs. Those "spoiled sports" were just as pissed when a white guy from Arkansas was in the White House. People are inflammed enough without adding inflammatory remarks that have nothing to do with the issues.

If the Rethugs are so OK with the hue of the President's skin, then why are there so many racist cartoons and images of President Obama and the First Lady? Obama as a monkey? A GOPer in SC saying that some of the First Lady's relatives lived Ape House at the Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia? And why have I seen an increase in frankly racist bumperstickers since he was first elected?

[FreeJosie]

If the Republicans hate Obamacare so much why didn't they come up with an alternative? When are they going to come up with some solid, good ideas and policies on actually getting our country back on track instead of acting like a bunch of spoiled sports who are pissed because some black dude with a funny name resides in the White House?

Romney's alternative was basically "Don't be poor." :roll:

[nolongerIFBx]

If the Rethugs are so OK with the hue of the President's skin, then why are there so many racist cartoons and images of President Obama and the First Lady? Obama as a monkey? A GOPer in SC saying that some of the First Lady's relatives lived Ape House at the Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia? And why have I seen an increase in frankly racist bumperstickers since he was first elected?

I live in the mid-west and I'm just not seeing an increase in racism or racial bumper-stickers. And there are several pages of Bush/monkey photos available: https://www.google.com/search?q=bush+mo ... =869&dpr=1 . So to say that this is a new thing since Obama became president is not correct. It has nothing to do with the race of either Obama or Bush and everything about people- both democrats and Rebuplicans- expressing their frustrations. It is appropriate? No. But it isn't about the hue of the President's skin.

[realist51]

A wonky friend of mine blogged this morning about how the shutdown is the result of gerrymandering. So, he says we're all to blame because we continue to put up with it.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/ ... _ourselves

[Maggie Mae]

A wonky friend of mine blogged this morning about how the shutdown is the result of gerrymandering. So, he says we're all to blame because we continue to put up with it.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/ ... _ourselves

That's pretty much what I was going to say. We are all technically responsible, because we elected this congress. We have to get people interested and engaged with the political process if we want to change anything. We saw in 2008 that it is possible to get people excited, interested, and to the polls. We've seen that grassroots campaigns DO work. But we need to focus on changing perceptions and getting correct information out to voters.

We need people to be interested in stopping the corruption, and changing the way that politics happen. There are so many things wrong right now, I don't really even know where I would start. Probably by holding elections for every single representative of both the House and the Senate, and changing the eligibility rules so that representatives must make within 5% of their constituents average income + savings. I would enact term limits on both the House and the Senate.

[javafriend]

It doesn't make any sense to expect Democrats to compromise on the Affordable Health Act. It is not a bill, it is a LAW. As a previous poster noted, it is a law that has been passed and vetted through the Supreme Court. There are procedures in place to change, amend and repeal laws - and none of them involve shutting down the government. The House Republicans are choosing not to follow the constitutional process. They are at fault for the current impasse.

And yes, I do believe that race is an important piece of the Republican right wing objections to ADA. I live in the Midwest too. Even at the height of his unpopularity, I never heard Clinton referred to with the frighteningly hate-filled rhetoric I hear used about Obama. I think right wing republicans in Congress are happy to fan those flames.

[Maggie Mae]

It doesn't make any sense to expect Democrats to compromise on the Affordable Health Act. It is not a bill, it is a LAW. As a previous poster noted, it is a law that has been passed and vetted through the Supreme Court. There are procedures in place to change, amend and repeal laws - and none of them involve shutting down the government. The House Republicans are choosing not to follow the constitutional process. They are at fault for the current impasse.

And yes, I do believe that race is an important piece of the Republican right wing objections to ADA. I live in the Midwest too. Even at the height of his unpopularity, I never heard Clinton referred to with the frighteningly hate-filled rhetoric I hear used about Obama. I think right wing republicans in Congress are happy to fan those flames.

I agree. I used to live in the Midwest and obviously most of the people on my FB still live there and the things people say are really crazy insane ignorant and slightly racist. I don't remember people being so hateful towards Clinton, but I can't say for sure.

[pattygbucks]

It doesn't make any sense to expect Democrats to compromise on the Affordable Health Act. It is not a bill, it is a LAW... There are procedures in place to change, amend and repeal laws - and none of them involve shutting down the government. The House Republicans are choosing not to follow the constitutional process.

But two of the main objections are:

1) President Obama's decision to delay the employer mandate until 2015

2) Lawmakers and staffers working on capitol hill having a government subsidy for policies bought on the exchange.

Neither of those are part of the ACA law and neither was put in place following the constitutional process. ACA is the law...but the implementation of the law is being changed by the executive branch unilaterally.

[J'ean Skirt]

But two of the main objections are:

1) President Obama's decision to delay the employer mandate until 2015

2) Lawmakers and staffers working on capitol hill having a government subsidy for policies bought on the exchange.

Neither of those are part of the ACA law and neither was put in place following the constitutional process. ACA is the law...but the implementation of the law is being changed by the executive branch unilaterally.

#2 was done at the request of.... John Boehner.

And that's not the main objection of the republicans. The main objection of the republicans is that it exists at all. Their stance is that ACA Must Be Delayed or the bunny gets it.

Finally the Democrats have said "Sorry, bunny, but we're really tired of being threatened."

This is total disfunction in the government, but most of it is because on portion of one party does not believe in compromise. They do not believe they have to give anything. For some reason they believe they just have to make demands and they will be capitulated to. Part of the problem is that this has been the case for the last few years. Whatever they wanted, they got. Or, at least 90+% of what they wanted.

Finally, the other party decided to stop playing the demand, demand, demand, demand more, threaten the country, demand, tank the global economy.

There are big dogs and little dogs in every negotiation. Negotiations go better if parties know which they are. In this case the little dogs actually decided not to be the kicked puppies any more. I can't blame them. And while this shutdown freaking sucks (gee, thanks, I get an extra week of in-laws because all the national parks are shut down and their plane doesn't go back to .eu for a week) I think it's time for someone to draw a line in the sand and say STOP.

[gustava]

But two of the main objections are:

1) President Obama's decision to delay the employer mandate until 2015

2) Lawmakers and staffers working on capitol hill having a government subsidy for policies bought on the exchange.

Neither of those are part of the ACA law and neither was put in place following the constitutional process. ACA is the law...but the implementation of the law is being changed by the executive branch unilaterally.

1. Employees with health plans are subsidized by their employers.

2. Several large private employers including Walgreens will end their own insurance plans and subsidize employees to move to Obamacare.

[pattygbucks]

1. Employees with health plans are subsidized by their employers.

2. Several large private employers including Walgreens will end their own insurance plans and subsidize employees to move to Obamacare.

thanks for letting me know about Walgreens change. My son work there part time, so not applicable to him right now, but may be in the near future.

I wish there was a way to have an objective analysis of how it will really work-time will tell.... I have several FB friends posting that their costs are going up like this one:

Ok, just a little frustrated right now........my healthcare premium went up over 60%, yes it more than doubled, (I don't qualify for the subsidy)! So I decided to become more knowledgeable about my plan. I'm now paying for maternity and newborn care, (at age 50??), pediatric care, (it's just me on my plan), and other services that I'm now REQUIRED to carry.

My friend has BCBS. Does anyone have a first hand story about costs going down?

[Black Aliss]

Never. They are far too busy worrying about what women do or don't do with their lady parts. Besides they really don't care if people die from lack of health care. Unless, of corse, you happen to be a fetus.

Apparently they don't even care that much about fetuses anymore because the shutdown/budget crisis means no more WIC benefits. Women who depend on those vouchers to remain well-nourished during their pregnancy are SOL now. Just another reason why we should never call the anti-choicers "pro-life".