My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[donks]

Maybe it's like when I was very young... Our neighbor was an elderly unmarried lady. We called her Miss Imogene.

Guess that gives her a title/respect as an adult *shrug* I never really questioned this until just now... Even when referring to her house it's still Miss Imogene's House even though new people live there now.

Edited to remove a random period. I hate typing on my phone!

[Austin]

I wish that geniebelle had never been given a second chance when she broke the sockpuppet rule. It's extra work to ignore her a second time, but it's definitely worth it and I recommend it to everyone. I wouldn't put it past her to create a second sock if enough people ignore her though. But for those who wish to continue engaging her, can you please not quote her text to be courteous to those of us who don't want to read her posts? Or at least hide it behind a spoiler button.

If that is the standard, then we should have banned experiencedd and doomedharlott. They were both members who had difficulties signing in and created new user accounts, clearly with no intent to deceive. Their original accounts were deleted once the new accounts were formed and the admins were made aware of it. I do not consider them as having been given a second chance, just as I do not consider geniebelle having been given a second chance. I do not interpret any of their actions as breaking the sockpuppet rule, as there was no intent to deceive in any of these instances.

[Witsec7]

If that is the standard, then we should have banned experiencedd and doomedharlott. They were both members who had difficulties signing in and created new user accounts, clearly with no intent to deceive. Their original accounts were deleted once the new accounts were formed and the admins were made aware of it. I do not consider them as having been given a second chance, just as I do not consider geniebelle having been given a second chance. I do not interpret any of their actions as breaking the sockpuppet rule, as there was no intent to deceive in any of these instances.

I agree Austin. At first I was against genie receiving the same grace I had been given from admins, she was no less deserving than I was.

The fact that she chose to show her ass one more time (I've lost count at 4), makes her no less deserving, just stupid.

[geniebelle6901]

Well I see nobody can find a single unbiased (which means neither written by gypsies/travellers or their haters) article pointing out the so-called good in their culture or offer any suggestions on how to fix the harmful stuff within their culture. That leads me to believe that you can't do either. Therefore, I'm not answering formergothardites question about AAs. I'm not taking that bait. Because I know exactly how any answer will be received. BTW, if someone is an attention seeker, why fuel the fire and give it to them?

[RR88]

"I won't answer your question, and you can't make me. So there! Hmmph!"

Don't forget to pout and stomp your foot for full effect, genie.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well I see nobody can find a single unbiased (which means neither written by gypsies/travellers or their haters) article pointing out the so-called good in their culture or offer any suggestions on how to fix the harmful stuff within their culture. That leads me to believe that you can't do either. Therefore, I'm not answering formergothardites question about AAs. I'm not taking that bait. Because I know exactly how any answer will be received. BTW, if someone is an attention seeker, why fuel the fire and give it to them?

Because silence can be construed as agreement. If you spew bigotry and no one combats it, it looks like the rest of us agree with it.

You're foul.

[JesusFightClub]

BTW, asked my comrade. She said "Close family ties and strong community feeling" was the best about the Travellers.

[MrsKay]

BTW, asked my comrade. She said "Close family ties and strong community feeling" was the best about the Travellers.

That's what I love most.

Regarding the "Master" thing - I was always taught that it was a very formal form of address (I'm from Canada, which might explain it). When MrKay and I got married, we designed our invitations so that it looked as though our kids were issuing it where the parents of the couple usually do. We addressed them as "Miss GirlKay" and "Master BoyKay". I see it around here every so often.

[grateful1230]

This thread has had me reading for hours about travellers, etc. The link to the rrom website was awesome btw! Also I've finally watched the crazy show, as it was on rerun tonight. I watched most of it with my jaw dropped. My sons laughed their asses off at the dress. Their only other comments revolved around how they were glad they are boys, because being a girl romni would be soooo boring. Heh. These boys are *so* the product of a single mother.

This thread has been educational for me as I knew little to nothing about any of this culture - right down to the face that "gypsy" is akin to the N word. I was ignorant enough that when my charming mother told me I was going to make the boys "gypsies" by moving them to the next state last year, I responded by dressing my willing participants in silly clothes and a lot of bling and sending the pic to my mom. I thought I was making fun of her for her rather rude comment, but now I'm fairly certain I taught the boys a really bad lesson. I'm ashamed, truly.

[grateful1230]

P.S. The "master" thing is alive and well in the US, at least within my extended family. All of my boys' mail arrives with Master gratefulkid on the envelope. I distinctly remember my brothers having the same titles. i believe my brothers were referred to as mister after they were 18.

Eta words that help the above sentences become comprehensible

[geniebelle6901]

i have had a bad run in with gypsies, in WNY! They screwed over my place of business BIG TIME

in 2009/10 they scheduled a new years party at my place of employment. i was a banquet server. They originally asked for a party of 250 until 2 am.

What we were forced to deal with was a rowdy party of over 300. They charged each person $60 for the event, even though it was only 32.75 a person from our calculations including the full time band. Their party of 250 was a party of 335, which bc they didn't tell us an accurate head count didn't get enough food. it threw the kitchen into a tailspin.

also they only paid the bar to be open until 1 am. they let the bar close, and then went to their hotel rooms and brought out 5 30 packs of keystone and 5 bottles of liquor. we told them NO LIQUOR bought not by the hotel after hours, unless they are in their hotel rooms, then they can do what they please. they iqnored us. and i didn't get home until 5:15, when i was told i'd be done by 2. they barely tipped us btw.

shady--yes. personal experience--yes

Out of curiosity did your place of employment have any problems like this with any other groups who booked parties or receptions?

[valsa]

Well I see nobody can find a single unbiased (which means neither written by gypsies/travellers or their haters) article pointing out the so-called good in their culture or offer any suggestions on how to fix the harmful stuff within their culture. That leads me to believe that you can't do either. Therefore, I'm not answering formergothardites question about AAs. I'm not taking that bait. Because I know exactly how any answer will be received. BTW, if someone is an attention seeker, why fuel the fire and give it to them?

This is bullshit in-and-of itself. Just because you happen to fit nicely into the dominate culture of the country you live in does not mean minority cultures should have to justify their existance to you. You've already shown yourself to be horribly biased, bigoted, and speaking from a place of priviledge when it comes to minorities. How dare you act as if a minority culture- one that has existed since before the United States was even a country- should have to explain why they should be allowed to continue to exist to you. Then again, you wanted other minorities to assimilate by being forced to adopt your language or not be in this country, so this does fit in line with your former bigotry. Second verse, same as the first.

[geniebelle6901]

I asked 2 simple questions and have yet to receive an answer. That tells me that you can't answer them, so therefore you jump on the Genie is bigot bandwagon. Feel better now?

[valsa]

I asked 2 simple questions and have yet to receive an answer. That tells me that you can't answer them, so therefore you jump on the Genie is bigot bandwagon. Feel better now?

No, you asked a question that is fundamentally offensive and that you have no right to ask.

[valsa]

I looked up what you wrote on her "I'm back and going to be a better person" thread:

If I cared more I'd be counting down the days until your next attention whore/offensive outburst. As it is, I'll just make a prediction for how it will go down- 1) you'll say something offensive, 2) people will call you out on it, 3) you'll try to defend your indefensible offensive remark, 4) people don't buy your bullshit, 5) you'll snap and go on a profanity-laced tirade, 6) people will make fun of you, and 7) finally you'll apologize and/or blame it on some outside influence and/or say you're turning over yet another new leaf.

We are on #4 because (and I suspect this is because her church members are lurking) she hasn't started cussing yet.

I'll be sad if she doesn't eventually get to step 5. The only value she has is the humor from watching her lose her shit.

[formergothardite]

So pretty much nothing that showed them anything but the evil demons you believe them to be will suit you?

I think they should be required to educate their children. I know there was some bitching on this thread about them not paying enough taxes so they shouldn't be allowed to go to school, well why not set up sites for them to camp at and then tax them when they register to camp? Have all the paperwork at the camp site to get their children signed up for school. But the problem with this is that they are so discriminated against that people don't want them around. They don't want them in their school system or camping near their home. So the place to start is to end the discrimination, not wipe their culture from the earth which just encourages discrimination.

Here is a link (probably not bashing them enough for your approval) that talks about the discrimination and persecution(and not the fundie I had to hear Happy Holiday's persecution) they have and still do face:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma4.htm

There are about 5,000 Roma survivors of the Nazi concentration camps who are still living. Because of continuing discrimination, they did not share in any of the hundreds of millions of dollars given to other survivors of the Holocaust

"The Roma community suffers massive discrimination in access to housing, employment and education. In some countries they are prevented from obtaining citizenship and personal documents required for social insurance, health care and other benefits. Roma are often victims of police ill-treatment and their complaints are seldom investigated. Frequently Romani children are unjustifiably placed in 'special' schools where curtailed curricula limit their possibilities for fulfilling their potential. Romani children and women are among the communities most vulnerable to traffickers."

A poll of ethnic Bulgarian adults shows that discrimination and bigotry is intense and widespread: 94% said they would not marry a Roma*;

91% believe that the Roma are predisposed to criminal behavior;

83% that the are "lazy and irresponsible."

69% would not have a Roma as a friend*.

59% would not live in the same locale as the Roma;

*These two values have increased by about 5 percentage points since 1992.

Quoting myself because I answered Genie's questions. It isn't my fault that she immediatly discounts any source that doesn't speak bad of Roma. It is kind of like how the people who don't want AA people living near them automatically discount any source that doesn't show them as thieves that will rape and kill you when you walk down the street.

The first step in getting them to change is to end the discrimination against them. That is a source showing the discrimination against them. The other website I brought up showed both the good and bad parts of the Roma culture, so it was hardly one-sided. You just don't wan to answer my question because you know deep down inside you are nothing but a racist.

[geniebelle6901]

I think they should be required to educate their children. I know there was some bitching on this thread about them not paying enough taxes so they shouldn't be allowed to go to school, well why not set up sites for them to camp at and then tax them when they register to camp?

Check page 11....I made a similar but slightly different suggestion the same suggestion. I like the idea, but I have to agree with anniec's reply. Taxpayers will not want to foot the bill for the initial setup of the camps.

[geniebelle6901]

No, you asked a question that is fundamentally offensive and that you have no right to ask.

So, you're saying it's ok to snark on the bad things, but not ask about the good stuff? Ummm....ok whatever.

I'll be sad if she doesn't eventually get to step 5. The only value she has is the humor from watching her lose her shit.

Well I haven't lost it so far. I'm having too much fun watching other people engage in name calling and squirming because you can't answer the questions I asked. So far from pitching a fit and cussing, I'm actually getting a good laugh.

[valsa]

So, you're saying it's ok to snark on the bad things, but not ask about the good stuff? Ummm....ok whatever.

Not when you're asking about "the good stuff" to try and force people to justify the Roma culture's right to exist. Their culture's worth, as far as its' right to exist is concerned, is not your's to judge.

Well I haven't lost it so far. I'm having too much fun watching other people engage in name calling and squirming because you can't answer the questions I asked. So far from pitching a fit and cussing, I'm actually getting a good laugh.

People have answered your question*, though personally I don't think they should have. You simply won't accept their answers.

* Since people have answered your question, I want an answer to the "black culture" question we asked you.

[formergothardite]

Check page 11....I made a similar but slightly different suggestion the same suggestion. I like the idea, but I have to agree with anniec's reply. Taxpayers will not want to foot the bill for the initial setup of the camps.

And that is because they, like you, hate the Roma people. So to get past that point, we need to end the discrimination. Which was my first step, the step you left out.

I have answered both your questions, now answer mine. How is wanting to eliminate the entire Roma culture and force them to assimilate into another culture based on the the bad things they do any different than wanting to eliminate the AA culture because there is lots of violence, teen pregnancies, not being educated, and things like dog fighting in their culture? I could drag up news story after news story on these things. I could even bring up TV shows like Cops that show a lot of AA people being arrested to prove my point.

So Genie, should we destroy their culture just like you want to destroy the Roma culture and if not, why? And since we are destroying cultures based on the bad in them, Native Americans currently have a lot of bad things going on in their culture, should they be on the list of cultures that are not worth preserving? Sure, a lot of it is caused by people wanting to kill them and being discriminated against, but the same can be said about the Roma people.

[Eponine]

Well I don't know if this article will count, since it's an editorial, but the Guardian should be a pretty non-biased source (in terms of discussing Roma): http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... mainstream

Same thing here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NETTXT3487 Interesting quote from Queen Victoria, calling them "full of respect, quiet, discerning and full of affection for one another."

How about good old Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_society_and_culture There is a bit of discussion about Roma philosophy, they mention folk song, stories, and fairy tales. There is a whole separate article about contemporary art of the Roma. Music too. (Oh wait music isn't allowed by her arbitrary rules! I guess we should probably throw out a whole bunch of works by composers such as Haydn, Liszt, and Brahms, who were influenced by music of the Roma.)

Did I miss why food and music are not allowed to count positive parts of a culture? Those two things are major aspects of any culture worldwide. That's like saying hey, let's talk about art - but not sculpting or drawing, okay?

I also found PLENTY of academic articles on the subject but I don't know if other people would have access to them.

Anyway, no culture has to "prove" that they have the right to exist. That is just a ridiculous concept in itself.

[tankgirl]

Genie, so you would prefer lists from Hilter for why he thought they should have their culture exterminated? I mean you really seem to want people to agree with you, that they are awful and terrible, so how about that source for you, at least you know it agrees with you. Oh and part of the reason you are going to be getting fewer and fewer responses is not the lack of positive information of these cultures on the internet, but the lack of people wanting to waste their time with you, and the fact the ignore lists you are on are growing. I was just going to ignore you, but your ignorant, bitch ass has finally pushed me to add you to my ignore list, and I almost never ignore anyone (I also have that shmuck that wrote in some weird format and quoted to much damn scripture). You did not change, your still a horrible, bigot.

[geniebelle6901]

Ok, then, if getting rid of the criminal element and their own oppressive ways (wifely submission, lack of education, abuse, etc.) then yes I'm all for assimilation. As I have stated before, I would rather see people live than being held back by their own ass-backward ways. I include my own Southern culture in as well. As far as AAs are concerned, we have one in the White House who will most likely be re-elected. Could that have happened if AAs hadn't assimilated into mainstream society which by the way is due to Martin Luther King, Jr. and other civil rights leaders who pushed for desegregation?

[Patsy]

Did you seriously just suggest that having a unique culture and legal apartheid are the same thing?

[geniebelle6901]

No, that is not what I said. I was suggesting if not for Martin Luther King. Jr. and other civil rights leaders who pushed for civil rights and desegregation, President Obama wouldn't be in the White House today. To clarify even further, civil rights and desegregation are good things.