My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[Eponine]

You're confusing desegregation and assimilation. AA have been assimilated for a very long time - basically since the end of the Civil War. Obama can be president because of desegregation; segregation would have barred his access, but AA have shared the mainstream US culture since long before the civil rights movement. (Except in cases where racism and poverty have pushed them out of "mainstream" culture.)

[formergothardite]

Martin Luther King Jr. didn't want to destroy the AA culture. He wanted the culture to be respected and treated equally to white culture.

But you do think that the AA culture should be destroyed since there is so much bad in it? Is that what you are saying?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Well I see nobody can find a single unbiased (which means neither written by gypsies/travellers or their haters) article pointing out the so-called good in their culture or offer any suggestions on how to fix the harmful stuff within their culture. That leads me to believe that you can't do either. Therefore, I'm not answering formergothardites question about AAs. I'm not taking that bait. Because I know exactly how any answer will be received. BTW, if someone is an attention seeker, why fuel the fire and give it to them?

How about this: they don't have a history of warfare, or trying to kill off other peoples/cultures - even though they have been on the receiving end of genocide and continuing discrimination.

[RR88]

I guess it's fruitless to wonder if genie will "assimilate" and stop writing foolish and bigoted things.

[geniebelle6901]

But you do think that the AA culture should be destroyed since there is so much bad in it? Is that what you are saying?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you know it. As long as people obey they law, pay taxes, educate their kids, don't beat their kids and spouses, it doesn't matter to me what color their skin is. Now if gypsies & travellers can do that, then I wouldn't have a problem. Since these cultures have been around for centuries and are still living on the fringes of society, did it ever occur to anybody that there's more going on than just persecution or discrimination?

[dawbs]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you know it. As long as people obey they law, pay taxes, educate their kids, don't beat their kids and spouses, it doesn't matter to me what color their skin is. Now if gypsies & travellers can do that, then I wouldn't have a problem. Since these cultures have been around for centuries and are still living on the fringes of society, did it ever occur to anybody that there's more going on than just persecution or discrimination?

Kinda like how jews and blacks lived 'on the fringes' for so long?

Because there was more going on than discrimination? :eusa-think:

[formergothardite]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you know it. As long as people obey they law, pay taxes, educate their kids, don't beat their kids and spouses, it doesn't matter to me what color their skin is. Now if gypsies & travellers can do that, then I wouldn't have a problem. Since these cultures have been around for centuries and are still living on the fringes of society, did it ever occur to anybody that there's more going on than just persecution or discrimination?

But that is not what you originally said, you said that nothing in the Roma society was worth preserving because of the bad parts. It was everyone else saying that they need to stop neglecting the education of their children, obey the law and treat women with respect while at the same time maintaining their culture.

And really, why should it be more than the persecution and discrimination that forces them to the edge of society? They are so hated that even though they were tortured, starved and killed in concentration camps and the people who survived were not treated equally to everyone else by the rest of the world. One of the few episodes of this show I have seen showed a young woman who lived in a brick house, went to school and had a job, she was forced to keep her culture and heritage secret because no one would hire her if they knew. Her boss and co-workers were shocked when they found out on her last day that she was a gypsy. Because they had bought into the stereo types like you have and thought that they were all lying, robbing, fighting thieves. Yes, having to choose to hide who you are because being proud of your heritage and culture will make you unemployable will keep you on the fridge of society.

[fakepigtails73]

Was the musician Django Reinhart (sp??) a Roma?

I love his music.

[JesusFightClub]

State, again. Leave Geniebelle well alone.

I am sorry. I don't know a better word than State. It is what we would call disrupts. That is what she is.

[valsa]

State, again. Leave Geniebelle well alone.

I am sorry. I don't know a better word than State. It is what we would call disrupts. That is what she is.

Troll?

[valsa]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you know it. As long as people obey they law, pay taxes, educate their kids, don't beat their kids and spouses, it doesn't matter to me what color their skin is. Now if gypsies & travellers can do that, then I wouldn't have a problem. Since these cultures have been around for centuries and are still living on the fringes of society, did it ever occur to anybody that there's more going on than just persecution or discrimination?

So... Roma are inherently bad people?

Also, if we're talking centuries here, America is no better. We became a country because we didn't want to pay taxes, we've always had a love for outlaws in our popular culture, our education system is fucked up and fails to educate a lot of kids (and it took a while for us to even get public schools), and I shouldn't have to remind anyone here that up until only a few decades ago it was legal to beat your wife, it's still legal to hit your children, and laws against things like marital rape haven't been around very long.

Why should American culture continue to exist, Geniebelle? For that matter, considering that the black community in America has disproportionally high rates of crime, being on public assistance (using tax money without having to pay any (or only a little) into it), failing in school, and domestic abuse- what's the difference between "black culture" and "Roma culture"?

[Guest Anonymous]

Troll?

Attention-seeking troll... oh well, she's had what she wanted - some sympathy and a bit of company while she's off sick.

All good things come to an end... :lol:

[Witsec7]

Was the musician Django Reinhart (sp??) a Roma?

I love his music.

He was an asshole but not Rom. He hung out in Rom camps in France and that's where he learned to play. His first name is really Jean, Django was just a nick he picked up from the Rom language.

[formergothardite]

I think Genie is so surrounded by racism and privilage that she can't see any other way. And she admitted in the past that Free Jinger is the first place where anyone has dared to question her beliefs. I post less for her benefit(but I do hope that some of this is sinking in) and more for the lurkers who might be on the fence and might learn from reading this.

[fakepigtails73]

He was an asshole but not Rom. He hung out in Rom camps in France and that's where he learned to play. His first name is really Jean, Django was just a nick he picked up from the Rom language.

Woops! Didn't know that! Sorry...

[Witsec7]

Woops! Didn't know that! Sorry...

Its all good. I'm a fount of useless information and factoids :lol:

[JesusFightClub]

Troll?

Not precisely. I wish I was cleverer with English.

Here is an example of what I mean by State. I'm antifa. (Antifascist, but not the peaceful kind.) We were on an action and one guy said "let's [do completely stupid and dangerous thing]." I said no. It's wrong and counterproductive. It's more aggro than we need to be.

He whipped round and snarled "Fucking class traitor."

That's State. Provoking. Using wrong language. Just...off. Not known. Or not knowable (this bloke appeared from nowhere...no one knew him.) Also "class traitor" is a HUGE thing to say. In Left culture it's like saying "scab" . You just don't.

After that, we knew he wasn't a comrade.

I get the same feeling from Genie and Knight. There is a wrongness.

[dawbs]

Not precisely. I wish I was cleverer with English.

Here is an example of what I mean by State. I'm antifa. (Antifascist, but not the peaceful kind.) We were on an action and one guy said "let's [do completely stupid and dangerous thing]." I said no. It's wrong and counterproductive. It's more aggro than we need to be.

He whipped round and snarled "Fucking class traitor."

That's State. Provoking. Using wrong language. Just...off. Not known. Or not knowable (this bloke appeared from nowhere...no one knew him.) Also "class traitor" is a HUGE thing to say. In Left culture it's like saying "scab" . You just don't.

After that, we knew he wasn't a comrade.

I get the same feeling from Genie and Knight. There is a wrongness.

I know what you mean, but I don't have a better word either.

It's nto 'troll' and it's nto 'mole'. It's a cross though.

I think like this ;)

[geniebelle6901]

Wow....and everybody thought I would have a hissy fit and go on a cussing spree. This is too funny! :lol: Isn't this the point where manicures or food takes over? I'll go first:

[dawbs]

Wow....and everybody thought I would have a hissy fit and go on a cussing spree. This is too funny!

Yes, you shocked and impressed us all by putting your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la la la la, nu-huh, I'm right, and I'm not answering your questions and your answers are void because I made up new arbitrary rules for life" instead

:roll:

[formergothardite]

So... Roma are inherently bad people?

Also, if we're talking centuries here, America is no better. We became a country because we didn't want to pay taxes, we've always had a love for outlaws in our popular culture, our education system is fucked up and fails to educate a lot of kids (and it took a while for us to even get public schools), and I shouldn't have to remind anyone here that up until only a few decades ago it was legal to beat your wife, it's still legal to hit your children, and laws against things like marital rape haven't been around very long.

Why should American culture continue to exist, Geniebelle? For that matter, considering that the black community in America has disproportionally high rates of crime, being on public assistance (using tax money without having to pay any (or only a little) into it), failing in school, and domestic abuse- what's the difference between "black culture" and "Roma culture"?

Quoting this so that perhaps Genie will answer the bolded part.

[Artemis]

Same thing here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NETTXT3487 Interesting quote from Queen Victoria, calling them "full of respect, quiet, discerning and full of affection for one another."

How sad is it that when I clicked on the link and read the article, the ad running at the bottom of the page was

Travellers / Gypsies? Legal Evictions, usually within 24 to 48 hours.

Some things don't change, despite the occasional favourable article.

[JesusFightClub]

No. If you were a cat, and so was I, I would say you smell wrong. Since we ain't ;) the nearest comparison I have is State.

You are not here for good motives any more than KISA was. If you were a commie or if you were antifa, we would have a wee chat (without you) about your intentions.

[geniebelle6901]

The first bolded part was my question. So you want me to answer my own question? That makes no sense. As for the second question...only if they feel they shouldn't have obey the law and engage in bad stuff that we snark on fundies about.

[meda]

No. If you were a cat, and so was I, I would say you smell wrong. Since we ain't ;) the nearest comparison I have is State.

You are not here for good motives any more than KISA was. If you were a commie or if you were antifa, we would have a wee chat (without you) about your intentions.

Agent provocateur? (although, I guess that assumes geniebell is a plant from Dougie. A stretch, but more believable when considering KISA)