My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[valsa]

Lindsay you are on the internet. The world biggest library. Be a lifelong learner and explore the world around you.

Edited to add

I thought you didn't know Rom were real?

To be fair, maybe Esmerelda from the Hunchback of Notre Dame never finished high school... :roll:

Also, I'm pretty sure the people who saved Moses in the Prince of Egypt weren't Roma. Granted, they were nomads but not every nomad is a Roma.

Lindsay, if you don't mind me asking- how old are you? (just an approximate would be nice) You seem to be either very young or very immature. The world is a big, beautiful, diverse place and you don't seem to be interested in learning anything about it unless you see it on T.V. (even then you don't learn about it, you just accept whatever television shows you as being the truth) Maybe I'm just projecting but I can't imagine not having a strong desire to just learn. Try opening up wikipedia and learning just some cursory information about a religion or a culture you know nothing of. Knowledge is power, after all.

[Guest Anonymous]

I had someone tell me that gyspies were like fairies. I couldn't stop laughing. :lol:

I thought that was a horrible thing to say. Like saying - "I thought Jewish people were a myth." How intellectually incurious/determinedly insular does one have to be to think that an entire culture/group of people doesn't actually exist?

We learned about the Roma being persecuted during the Holocaust even in my rural public school in the Bible Belt.

[BlondeAgent007]

Of course not... genocide is never the answer. I think the fact that they are so secretive about so much (finances, especially) is very telling. I really don't care whether or not someone wants to use a toilet to defecate, or if they want to live on the road. I have a problem with people that don't pay taxes and destroy other people's things.

The Amish do a lot of things I don't agree with, but in the process they really don't hurt anyone. I think they should require more education, but the education they DO receive adequately prepares them for their unique lifestyle. And even though leaving is hard, they do have the option to explore other cultures, and with rumspringa, the option to leave. The Roma make it difficult for their children to marry outside of their own group, let alone choose any kind of lifestyle that is different from their own. and I really don't see why they can't keep their culture and still follow the rules the rest of society has to follow.

[valsa]

The Amish do a lot of things I don't agree with, but in the process they really don't hurt anyone. I think they should require more education, but the education they DO receive adequately prepares them for their unique lifestyle. And even though leaving is hard, they do have the option to explore other cultures, and with rumspringa, the option to leave. The Roma make it difficult for their children to marry outside of their own group, let alone choose any kind of lifestyle that is different from their own. and I really don't see why they can't keep their culture and still follow the rules the rest of society has to follow.

Someone needs to be more educated about the Amish. There are several ways they are destructive- including their abusive practices towards animals, the patriarchy, and the widespread sexual abuse that is largely covered up within the community. Also, the Amish make it just as difficult as the Roma for their children to leave the group, even with rumspringa, because teens going through rumspringa are usually completely unprepared when it comes to living the English lifestyle.

[tabitha2]

How intellectually incurious/determinedly insular does one have to be to think that an entire culture/group of people doesn't actually exist?

My brilliant cousin who just graduated from a top medical school did not believe Tongans-as in the Island of Tonga-existed.

[formergothardite]

One of the big problems is that they are horribly discriminated against. In some places they have to keep their culture a secret if they even want to get a job. How would you feel if you had to hide who you were just so you would get a job? Would you feel inclined to take advice from the people discriminating against you? I sure wouldn't.

IMO, like I said before, the first step is to end the discrimination and persecution they face. From there it would be easier to get them to drop the harmful aspects of their culture while keeping the rest of it.

[BlondeAgent007]

I went to school with a lot of jewish people and have babysat for at least three jewish families, one of which followed all kosher rules. The ones I have met were all very kind and were able to live in normal society and still keep their very, very unique cultural identity. Are there Jewish people who are scam artists, murderers, and theives? Well, sure, probably. My adopted younger brother is black and he sucks at basketball. My father went to an inner city school with mostly black students, and had a lot of really horrible experienced, being a fat white kid. It didn't make him discredit every single black person.

[BlondeAgent007]

I worked at a summer camp with a girl whos parents were both raised amish. She told me she would still visit her parents family, but the relationships were a little strained.

[Witsec7]

I went to school with a lot of jewish people and have babysat for at least three jewish families, one of which followed all kosher rules. The ones I have met were all very kind and were able to live in normal society and still keep their very, very unique cultural identity. Are there Jewish people who are scam artists, murderers, and theives? Well, sure, probably. My adopted younger brother is black and he sucks at basketball. My father went to an inner city school with mostly black students, and had a lot of really horrible experienced, being a fat white kid. It didn't make him discredit every single black person.[/quote]

And yet you are willing to discredit all Rom and Traveller. :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

My brilliant cousin who just graduated from a top medical school did not believe Tongans-as in the Island of Tonga-existed.

I guess I don't understand why someone in that situation (Tonga? Huh. I've never heard of that. Wonder where/what it is?) wouldn't take five minutes to google it instead of insisting that it didn't exist.

[Anxious Girl]

Don't you know, experiencedd? It's because Roma and Traveller steal and/aren't white! Please forgive me if this is a bad comparison, but it's like those same racists who want to deport the Mexicans back but when asked if they should do the same thing to illegal Canadians they're like... Buh, wha? (I have nothing against Canadians, and actually like Canada, I even want to visit there. I'm just trying to poing out similiar irony that fascist Americans and fundies use...)

[Witsec7]

As a child I read encyclopedias. With the advent of the Internet I was in hog heaven. I can't count the number of times during a day that I use it to learn something new. WTH is up with people that don't look for answers to their questions? Heck here on FJ I learned about Kanga's I didn't realize that for years what I was calling a sarong was a Kanga and that some of the textiles I had were African.

Ok done with the thread jack and mini rant. Please continue with your regularly scheduled program.

riffle

[formergothardite]

As a child I read encyclopedias. With the advent of the Internet I was in hog heaven. I can't count the number of times during a day that I don't use it to learn something new. WTH is up with people that don't look for answers to their questions? Heck here on FJ I learned about Kanga's I didn't realize that for years what I was calling a sarong was a Kanga and that some of the textiles I had were African.

Ok done with the thread jack and mini rant. Please continue with your regularly scheduled program.

I loved reading the encyclopedias as a child! I still have ours and my oldest daughter likes looking through them even though they are several decades out of date.

[tabitha2]

I guess I don't understand why someone in that situation (Tonga? Huh. I've never heard of that. Wonder where/what it is?) wouldn't take five minutes to google it instead of insisting that it didn't exist.

Because he did not care-no Tongans where he lives, so not relevant to his life.The ones i work with got a huge laugh out of it though.

I, on the other hand, tend to do delve deeply into any and all subjects that catch my fancy-at the moment it's Korean Queen consorts from watching Korean dramas;I am not near as naturally smart or ambitious but having intellectual curiosity makes up for it in some ways at least.My mother bought a set a encyclopedias as a child when we could barely afford food and that was my blessing and life line.

[Witsec7]

I loved reading the encyclopedias as a child! I still have ours and my oldest daughter likes looking through them even though they are several decades out of date.

My favorite which I still have is "Lands and Peoples" by Grolier and the Grolier Encyclopedias. I also have a pre WW2 OED. Lands and Peoples is fascinating because a lot of the tribes and cultures reviewed are gone, exterminated by people, civilization, and the culture of their conquerors.

[BlondeAgent007]

I also find it quite puzzling that the Rom claim persecution and want acceptance, yet when one of their children marries outside of their culture, its like a social taboo. Even if the spouse is committed to living a traveller lifestyle, they are never truly accepted into their community. I would think people looking for people not to judge them wouldn't be so judgey themselves.

[valsa]

I also find it quite puzzling that the Rom claim persecution and want acceptance, yet when one of their children marries outside of their culture, its like a social taboo. Even if the spouse is committed to living a traveller lifestyle, they are never truly accepted into their community. I would think people looking for people not to judge them wouldn't be so judgey themselves.

And this is different than the thousands of other cultures that tend to not want their children marrying someone from outside the group... how?

[Witsec7]

I also find it quite puzzling that the Rom claim persecution and want acceptance, yet when one of their children marries outside of their culture, its like a social taboo. Even if the spouse is committed to living a traveller lifestyle, they are never truly accepted into their community. I would think people looking for people not to judge them wouldn't be so judgey themselves.

Marrying out is a social taboo for lots of cultures and religions. As to their persecution, read what has happened in Europe, England, and during WW2 and get back to me. You are woefully ignorant, and you could be forgiven of your ignorance if you just decided to learn and explore a bit about folks who aren't just like you. Instead you blab the same bigotry over and over again.

[She Who Laughs]

Someone needs to be more educated about the Amish. There are several ways they are destructive- including their abusive practices towards animals, the patriarchy, and the widespread sexual abuse that is largely covered up within the community. Also, the Amish make it just as difficult as the Roma for their children to leave the group, even with rumspringa, because teens going through rumspringa are usually completely unprepared when it comes to living the English lifestyle.

And aren't these just generalizations about the Amish? I lived right smack in the middle of a large Amish community for several years and I was impressed with how well they treated their animals. They treated their animals better than many people treat their children. I never once saw or heard of any instances of them being abusive toward their animals. The horses were always well fed and groomed and I never saw any Amish person raise a hand (or whip or stick) to their horses. Animals that were to be food lived in great conditions (unlike so many factory farms) and were slaughtered humanely.

[Anxious Girl]

And aren't these just generalizations about the Amish? I lived right smack in the middle of a large Amish community for several years and I was impressed with how well they treated their animals. They treated their animals better than many people treat their children. I never once saw or heard of any instances of them being abusive toward their animals. The horses were always well fed and groomed and I never saw any Amish person raise a hand (or whip or stick) to their horses. Animals that were to be food lived in great conditions (unlike so many factory farms) and were slaughtered humanely.

Everybody should treat both people and animals with decency and respect. (Is this weird?) And yes, the Amish treat their animals better than you treat your children.

[Guest Anonymous]

I guess I don't understand why someone in that situation (Tonga? Huh. I've never heard of that. Wonder where/what it is?) wouldn't take five minutes to google it instead of insisting that it didn't exist.

Because he did not care-no Tongans where he lives, so not relevant to his life.The ones i work with got a huge laugh out of it though.

So he was quite intellectually incurious, then. I thought you were relating that particular anecdote as a counter to what I said, but it seems that you were agreeing with me and I misunderstood. I guess my stance is that if someone has a computer, the internet, and the ability to use them (I realize not everyone does) then there's no reason for a person to be ignorant about that sort of thing unless they simply don't care.

[Guest Anonymous]

Everybody should treat both people and animals with decency and respect. (Is this weird?) And yes, the Amish treat their animals better than you treat your children.

You're full of it. Google "Amish puppy mills."

[Anxious Girl]

You're full of it. Google "Amish puppy mills."

I apologize to both you and She Who Laughs. I shouldn't have compared the 2.

[emmiedahl]

Everybody should treat both people and animals with decency and respect. (Is this weird?) And yes, the Amish treat their animals better than you treat your children.

From what I have read, they wear out their horses in years from overwork and then sell them to slaughter houses. They run puppy mills with appalling conditions. They lock baby cows up in tiny dark sheds with no AC or heat. They chain dogs up and leave them for weeks--there are photos and reports of Amish dogs with the chain actually grown into their flesh. I don't treat my children that way, and anyone who does should be locked away forever.

[Anxious Girl]

From what I have read, they wear out their horses in years from overwork and then sell them to slaughter houses. They run puppy mills with appalling conditions. They lock baby cows up in tiny dark sheds with no AC or heat. They chain dogs up and leave them for weeks--there are photos and reports of Amish dogs with the chain actually grown into their flesh. I don't treat my children that way, and anyone who does should be locked away forever.

I know. I was wrong to compare the 2. Humans beating animals isn't like humans hitting humans.