Arkansas Fetal Heartbeat Bill - Be afraid!

[debrand]

I hesitate to write this because my grandmother could be very crude. However, it does apply to this situation. Nan always said, "It feels good going in but its hell coming out" When she used to say that I'd always react with a mixture of shock and amusement. My grandmother was an unusual person. :? However, for all her crassness, Nan knew the difference between sex and pregnancy.

[valsa]

I'm still chuckling over the idea that pregnancy and birth are no different than sex. :lol:

Anyone who says something like that either:

1) Has had supernatually easy pregnancies and births

2) Has had horrifically awful sex

3) Knows jack about either one

[formergothardite]

My sex education was a pile of crap, but at least I knew that it was totally different than giving birth. Dear Sunshine, please use google and educate yourself a little more about both things.

[Violet]

Fuck, now Republican representatives in Iowa are introducing a bill to define abortion as first-degree murder from the moment of conception. At least we have a Democratic State senate that keeps the stupider bills from going forward. Still, it's a bad day when I have to contact my representative during breakfast . . .

What the actual fuck? So does that mean that it's murder when fertility specialists destroy surplus embryos after IVF treatment...which would therefore make the awesome team who are responsible for hundreds of couples such as my parents children are also murderers? (Luckily I live in the UK, where abortion is not considered murder in the eyes of the law.)

[JenniferJuniper]

What the actual fuck? So does that mean that it's murder when fertility specialists destroy surplus embryos after IVF treatment...which would therefore make the awesome team who are responsible for hundreds of couples such as my parents children are also murderers? (Luckily I live in the UK, where abortion is not considered murder in the eyes of the law.)

It's not ever going to be considered murder in the US either.

I say let the fools keep it up. Roe is not going to be overturned and Republicans are going to look crazier and crazier, expediting their total demise.

[Dollypeeps]

What the actual fuck? So does that mean that it's murder when fertility specialists destroy surplus embryos after IVF treatment...which would therefore make the awesome team who are responsible for hundreds of couples such as my parents children are also murderers? (Luckily I live in the UK, where abortion is not considered murder in the eyes of the law.)

The thing is if laws are passed in America they do pass over to other countries does take a few years of course but can happen. This I can't see happening ever thankfully. Fundies are dangerous and these nut jobs are coming out of the woodwork a lot more than usual and that is scary.

[debrand]

I wish Sunshine would return to the thread. She is probably young and never experienced childbirth so I'd like to know if her opinion has changed.

[Sola]

What the actual fuck? So does that mean that it's murder when fertility specialists destroy surplus embryos after IVF treatment...which would therefore make the awesome team who are responsible for hundreds of couples such as my parents children are also murderers? (Luckily I live in the UK, where abortion is not considered murder in the eyes of the law.)

Thing is Violet, here in the UK there is a small, but increasingly vocal pro-life lobby. And if you look closely at them you find many ties to the USA.

There is a saying, "where the USA leads, the UK will follow", meaning that what happens over there will end up here. It is true to a certain extent and with regards to abortion, there are several members of our current, delightful conservative government who are pro-life and would if they had the chance, outlaw abortion. Just recently some of these ministers tried to persuade Cameron to reduce the abortion limit to 12 weeks. They failed of course, the government could not have passed such a bill within the coalition. But imagine what would happen if we had a purely conservative government? It could easily happen.

Ten years ago would we have dreamed that creationists would have been running some UK state schools? Well they are now. Look at it closely and these organisations have links with evangelicals in the USA. Where do you think Cameron got his Big Society idea from? It came from the USA of course. His idea was a thinly veiled version of how things work in the US, where the welfare safety net is full of holes and churches are expected to fill the gaps. That is what the conservatives want over here. And again, if you follow the trail of breadcrumbs from Cameron and his ministers you'll find links to the evangelical right in the US.

Think it wont happen here? Think again.

[formergothardite]

Even if she doesn't change her mind on abortion, I do hope she learned the difference between sex and childbirth from this thread.

[valsa]

Roe is not going to be overturned

Unfortunately, you don't have to overturn Roe v. Wade to make legal abortion impossible to get. In Oklahoma, a woman can be lied to by her doctor about the health of her fetus to prevent her from possibly seeking an abortion, Mississippi has no in-state abortion providers, and places like Ohio have had a least one part of their government approve similar heartbeat laws (iirc, the only reason the heartbeat bill didn't pass completely is because the Ohio senate tabled it and that was because they didn't want it to go before the Supreme Court and jeopardize other abortion restrictions)

Abortion being technically legal doesn't mean much if you restriction it so much that only a few financially privileged women can get it.

[valsa]

I wish Sunshine would return to the thread. She is probably young and never experienced childbirth so I'd like to know if her opinion has changed.

I imagine she's crying in her pastor's office right now, as he pats her on the back and assures her we're godless Jezebels who abort fetuses at 8 months just for fun and will burn in hell forever.

[JenniferJuniper]

Unfortunately, you don't have to overturn Roe v. Wade to make legal abortion impossible to get. In Oklahoma, a woman can be lied to by her doctor about the health of her fetus to prevent her from possibly seeking an abortion, Mississippi has no in-state abortion providers, and places like Ohio have had a least one part of their government approve similar heartbeat laws (iirc, the only reason the heartbeat bill didn't pass completely is because the Ohio senate tabled it and that was because they didn't want it to go before the Supreme Court and jeopardize other abortion restrictions)

Abortion being technically legal doesn't mean much if you restriction it so much that only a few financially privileged women can get it.

True. Roe is never going to overturned but some right wing states are going to push back futher and futher until people wake the fuck up and stop voting in these lunatics. People get the government they deserve.

[Blahblah]

Just wow at poor Sunshine's post. I'm amazed she ever signed up here. Surely even reading some of this stuff will taint her forever.

By the way Sunshine, should you ever venture back in here, I would love your advice. I have had three confirmed early term miscarriages (first trimester). I may have had more but confused them for late, heavy periods. That's very common.

I always thought that I have two children but now I'm worried. Should I declare that I have five children? At least? And when I do meet my three (or maybe more) little blobs of cells in the grand hereafter will they be royally pissed off that I don't recognize them, or haven't given them names or even know what gender they are?

[LostSamurai]

It's getting to the point where if I have a heavy period(which, I often do) I'll probaly get arrested for losing cells or some dumb shit...

God, I hate Republicans. I LOATHE them with all of my heart. You'd think after all of the "RAEP IS OKAY BECAUSE ALL WOMMINZ ARE WHORES' logic that Atkins and his crew spewed during the elections and Romney's dumbassness would cause the Republican Party to think about what they're saying...

[sparkles]

So let's add things up.

Abortions will be nearly impossible to obtain.

Contraception will be unavailable or unaffordable.

A young woman of childbearing age and/or women who have never had children and don't want them and choose voluntary sterilization will be unable to find a doctor who will allow them to undergo the procedure, because, you know, these silly, flighty women just might change their minds.

So when you think about it, women will still have a choice:

To abstain from having sex, even with your spouse because it may result in an unwanted pregnancy.

To be forced to bear a child against your will.

To possibly die from complications during pregnancy or in childbirth because your health and/or the health of the fetus is at risk.

Yeah, tell me the people behind legislation like this don't hate women. :roll:

[Violet]

Thing is Violet, here in the UK there is a small, but increasingly vocal pro-life lobby. And if you look closely at them you find many ties to the USA.

There is a saying, "where the USA leads, the UK will follow", meaning that what happens over there will end up here. It is true to a certain extent and with regards to abortion, there are several members of our current, delightful conservative government who are pro-life and would if they had the chance, outlaw abortion. Just recently some of these ministers tried to persuade Cameron to reduce the abortion limit to 12 weeks. They failed of course, the government could not have passed such a bill within the coalition. But imagine what would happen if we had a purely conservative government? It could easily happen.

Ten years ago would we have dreamed that creationists would have been running some UK state schools? Well they are now. Look at it closely and these organisations have links with evangelicals in the USA. Where do you think Cameron got his Big Society idea from? It came from the USA of course. His idea was a thinly veiled version of how things work in the US, where the welfare safety net is full of holes and churches are expected to fill the gaps. That is what the conservatives want over here. And again, if you follow the trail of breadcrumbs from Cameron and his ministers you'll find links to the evangelical right in the US.

Think it wont happen here? Think again.

Excellent point Sola, I guess this is just being being optimistic that our conservative politicians don't seem to be as extreme as the conservative politicians....

Do you know what the abortion law is currently? It doesn't seem to be talked about that much in the UK media, like it is in the US. Obviously I know that us having the NHS makes our healthcare a whole different ballgame, as we don't have to pay for contraception or any procedures if they're done on the NHS, so it means that we don't have the whole insurance issue.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So let's add things up.

Abortions will be nearly impossible to obtain.

Contraception will be unavailable or unaffordable.

A young woman of childbearing age and/or women who have never had children and don't want them and choose voluntary sterilization will be unable to find a doctor who will allow them to undergo the procedure, because, you know, these silly, flighty women just might change their minds.

So when you think about it, women will still have a choice:

To abstain from having sex, even with your spouse because it may result in an unwanted pregnancy.

To be forced to bear a child against your will.

To possibly die from complications during pregnancy or in childbirth because your health and/or the health of the fetus is at risk.

Yeah, tell me the people behind legislation like this don't hate women. :roll:

Wait, who said that you'll still be allowed to refuse to have sex with your headship? Have you learned nothing from Lori's blog?

[sparkles]

Whoopsie! I've stayed far away from Lori's blog. Clearly I have to get with the program.

[snarkyjan]

Whoopsie! I've stayed far away from Lori's blog. Clearly I have to get with the program.

Don't, unless you like having brain cells leak out.

[Buzzard]

Excellent point Sola, I guess this is just being being optimistic that our conservative politicians don't seem to be as extreme as the conservative politicians....

Do you know what the abortion law is currently? It doesn't seem to be talked about that much in the UK media, like it is in the US. Obviously I know that us having the NHS makes our healthcare a whole different ballgame, as we don't have to pay for contraception or any procedures if they're done on the NHS, so it means that we don't have the whole insurance issue.

Maybe this would be a time the Queen wont sign off!

[wild little fox]

I find this upsetting beyond words. I can barely read the thread, I am that angry!!!!! I have never had to deal with pregnancy because, apparently I am infertile, but I can imagine how hard life could be for a woman who is fertile. I have nothing but contempt for those who refuse to understand that life doesn't follow some magic flow chart.

As for this:

"Just buried my lil sis! She was only 19 weeks old...Not an easy one! God is good!"

I know i will hear God is good again, but it makes me ill, especially in this context. God didn't do this, your parents chose to get pregnant again.

[Buzzard]

Ugh...

Josh Duggar â€@joshduggar

@annclemmer @jasonrapert, thank you. More unborn children will now be granted our most basic right because of your willingness to stand!

3h Josh Duggar â€@joshduggar

Arkansas Heartbeat Bill passed House Public Health Committee by voice vote. Compelling testimony in favor. Toughest pro-life bill in USA!

[wild little fox]

So, it goes into effect immediately, if I understand correctly? I'm hoping somebody is going to get an injunction (or whatever legal channels apply I this circumstance) and get it tied up in court.

edited to fix typo

[LostSamurai]

And this is why the Duggars need to be canceled...or for TLC to pull a Kate Gosselin and just show all of the ugly.

[Dollypeeps]

I fear for my daughters and I am the UK.