Arkansas Fetal Heartbeat Bill - Be afraid!

[Buzzard]

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/ ... /SB134.pdf

This little piece of legislation has been proudly tweeted by smuggums and his new pet politician Jason Rapert (insert suggested google bomb topic please). I suggest that everyone read this terrifying little work of art because the actual specifics of it havent been widely reported - thus the pdf of the actual bill. I'll hit the highlights.

This is actually the end, but this little emergency factor is worth noting right up front:

SECTION 2. EMERGENCY CLAUSE. It is found and determined by the

21 General Assembly of the State of Arkansas that abortions are currently being

22 performed in Arkansas on unborn children with detectable heartbeats; and

23 that this act is immediately necessary because to protect the lives of unborn

24 children with detectable heartbeats. Therefore, an emergency is declared to

25 exist, and this act being immediately necessary for the preservation of the

26 public peace, health, and safety shall become effective on:

27 (1) The date of its approval by the Governor;

28 (2) If the bill is neither approved nor vetoed by the Governor,

29 the expiration of the period of time during which the Governor may veto the

30 bill; or

31 (3) If the bill is vetoed by the Governor and the veto is

32 overridden, the date the last house overrides the veto.

So, what does this mean? Legislation generally has an effective date, generally some time in the summer. This allows publication of the new laws to ensure that everyone knows what is legal/illegal, time to reprint books, educate police etc. By writing in an "effective immediately" clause they ensure that abortions at all levels will likely cease because NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FUCK IS ILLEGAL. Lawyers for insurance companies need time to read legislation, legislative summaries etc to figure out which behavior is prohibited and what isnt. Also, by not naming the means by which a hearbeat is detected you've made something a felony RIGHT NOW without determining the standard. No lawyer would allow their client to operate under those circumstances. Its like banning "drug a" without defining how to test for it. So... how do I know if this pill I have is "drug a?" You dont... so you just dont get it.

Ah, a "do nothing" clause. Love those. By allowing the Governor to stick this up his ass and not get around to it, he can let this hateful little piece of bullshit become law by NOT signing it. Nice little CYA in there, huh?

20-16-1303. Testing for heartbeat.

23 (a) A person authorized to perform abortions under Arkansas law shall

24 not perform an abortion on a pregnant woman before the person tests the

25 pregnant woman to determine whether the fetus that the pregnant woman is

26 carrying possesses a detectible heartbeat.

27 (b)(1) A person authorized to perform abortions under Arkansas law

28 shall perform a test necessary to detect a heartbeat of an unborn human

29 individual according to standard medical practice, including the use of

30 medical devices as determined by standard medical practice.

31

Except there is no standard medical practice for this test, which means I cannot perform an abortion. PERIOD.

(d) If a fetal heartbeat is detected during the test required under

8 this section, the person performing the test shall inform the pregnant woman

9 in writing:

10 (1) That the unborn human individual that the pregnant woman is

11 carrying possesses a heartbeat;

12 (2) Of the statistical probability of bringing the unborn human

13 individual to term based on the gestational age of the unborn human

14 individual possessing a detectible heartbeat; and

15 (3) An abortion is prohibited under §20-16-1303.

16 (e) If a heartbeat has been detected, the pregnant woman shall sign a

17 form acknowledging that she has received the information required under

18 subsection (d) of this section.

I'm sorry, WHAT? You can determine the statistical probability of me giving birth based upon who's actuarial chart? When considering that information, will you take into account other health conditions I have or are you just going to make shit up? If I get the math wrong, will you indict me?

I'm supposed to SIGN SOMETHING? You're creating an affirmative act (as opposed to a DONT DO THIS, law) with this bullshit? Who will retain these records of my denied abortion? Will they be public record? Does the Dr have to report them to the state? Fuck you if you're going to make me sign something. Lock me up, go ahead.

20-16-1304. Prohibitions.

21 (a) A person authorized to perform abortions under Arkansas law shall

22 not perform an abortion on a pregnant woman with the specific intent of

23 causing or abetting the termination of the life of an unborn human individual

24 whose heartbeat has been detected under § 20-16-1304.

25 (b) A violation of this section is a Class D felony.

How about a person who ISNT authorized to perform abortions?

20-16-1305. Exemptions.

28 (a) A person does not violate this subchapter if the person:

29 (1) Performs a medical procedure designed to or intended to

30 prevent the death of a pregnant woman or in reasonable medical judgment to

31 preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or

32 (2)(A) Has undertaken an examination for the presence of a

33 heartbeat in the fetus utilizing standard medical practice; and

34 (B)(i) The examination does not reveal a heartbeat; or

35 (ii) Has been informed by a medical professional who

36 has undertaken the examination for fetal heartbeat that the examination did As Engrossed: S1/30/13 SB134

4 01-25-2013 17:05:16 MGF097

1 not reveal a fetal heartbeat.

2 (b) This subchapter does not apply to:

3 (1) An abortion performed to save the life of the mother; or

4 (2) A pregnancy that results from rape under § 5-14-103 or

5 incest under § 5-26-202.

So lets say I'm in a serious car accident. Nothing life threatening, but I'm pretty fucked up. In fact, I have a giant piece of glass stuck in my back. My drs are concerned the as the pregnancy progresses the glass will be forced backward, possibly damaging my spine. I'm 14 weeks pregnant. They cant remove it because doing so may perforate my uterus, killing the "unborn human", but leaving it will likely leave me paralyzed. Since I wont die, my abortion is illegal. Fuck you. Decisions like this are between me and my dr, not you and your god.

20-16-1306. Interpretation.

8 This subchapter does not:

9 (1) Subject a pregnant female on whom an abortion is performed

10 or attempted to be performed to any criminal prosecution or civil penalty; or

11 (2) Prohibit the sale, use, prescription, or administration of a

12 measure, drug, or chemical designed for contraceptive purposes.

So is plan b illegal in arkansas under this law??? :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Cone]

RAGE. So so stupid & I'm too angry to even compose a reply.

[treemom]

If this passes it will leave yet another border state in TN who effectively stops people from getting legal abortions and puts TN doctors in a tough spot since you need to be a Tn resident to get an abortion here. Which sucks because I work 10 min from Arkansas (I can actually see it from my office) and 15 minutes from Miss.

[meda]

Such horse shit. When I was still carrying twins, I heard both heart beats at 8 weeks, even though we already knew one was not viable. Heartbeat that early has very little impact on the odds of delivering a full term baby. Further, even if there is a heartbeat found in what is still an enbryo, how does that have fuck all to do with a woman's legal right to end a pregnancy? So if I had needed a d&c for my non viable embryo, that is now illegal? Fucking morons

[2xx1xy1JD]

Fetal heartbeat can be detected by ultrasounds around 6-7 weeks, so I guess this is a blanket ban on abortion.

I'll repeat my standard objection to the "but we allow exceptions to save a life" argument. In many cases, it is not clear-cut that an abortion will definitely save a life, and that the woman will promptly drop dead without it. Instead, you get dangerous situations that could get worse and threaten health and/or health, and if you wait for those situations to progress, it may get to the point that it is too late to prevent the damage.

Take the Nathan and Trish example: No, it wasn't 100% certain that Trish would die from the pregnancy, but it was certainly clear that pregnancy would make her condition worse and prevent her from being placed on the transplant list. By the time that Trish was close to death, the damage had been done.

Or, take the example of premature rupture of membranes: The woman isn't at death's door as soon as the water breaks. However, if you wait until an infection develops, she can die of sepsis even if an abortion is performed at that point.

Or, the example of a chronic disease: A woman with unstable lupus may not be flaring up when she first gets pregnant, but if she's forced to go off her meds, an uncontrolled flare can lead to complications that include dead.

With extreme laws, would doctors be willing and able to take timely action, or would they be forced to wait until the patient was in extreme danger?

Ditto to meda's point about heartbeat not being a reliable indicator of fetal outcome. There was a fetal heartbeat with my first pregnancy that was detected at 8 weeks, but that didn't stop the pregnancy from turning into a miscarriage.

[silverspoons]

I would like to know what law is going to be passed along with this that requires doctors to treat high risk pregnant women at no cost. I live in Utah where it is hard to get an abortion, almost impossible if you are high risk since the 2 clinics that are providers are outpatient & not connected to hospitals. I had a very high risk pregnancy and at first no doctors would take me. I was lucky I had seen an east coast academic dr years before who basically forced an dr to take my case but that dr did not take my insurance. While I waited to find a dr, I was in the hospital and my case was actually presented to some board that was created to make exceptions to the strict laws. I was actually granted an exception, but by the time they granted it I was almost 20 weeks. It took this board 12 weeks to decide IF I had a choice. I could not travel to another state. By 20 weeks I had worked with my insurance & ended up agreeing to pay the first 15k(if I had found a dr on my plan it would have been $2500). I love my child but I now 10 years later I will have lifelong medical issues and have pretty severe (IMO) lifelong restrictions due to vascular & renal complications.

I know that the Duggars & friends think this is some grand victory, & in their minds they are helping all these single moms make the right choice...but what will they do for the underinsured, high risk, children that are born serverly disabled, all the senarios that would likely come up??

I know traveling to another state is an option but it is not always possible or has its own risks. I talked with a someone that had to travel 5 hours to Vegas to get an abortion and she had serious complications on the ride home. I know others that can't afford to take 2-3 days off work.

[treemom]

I would like to know what law is going to be passed along with this that requires doctors to treat high risk pregnant women at no cost. I live in Utah where it is hard to get an abortion, almost impossible if you are high risk since the 2 clinics that are providers are outpatient & not connected to hospitals. I had a very high risk pregnancy and at first no doctors would take me. I was lucky I had seen an east coast academic dr years before who basically forced an dr to take my case but that dr did not take my insurance. While I waited to find a dr, I was in the hospital and my case was actually presented to some board that was created to make exceptions to the strict laws. I was actually granted an exception, but by the time they granted it I was almost 20 weeks.

I know that the Duggars & friends think this is some grand victory, & in their minds they are helping all these single moms make the right choice...but what will they do for the underinsured, high risk, children that are born serverly disabled, all the senarios that would likely come up??

I know traveling to another state is an option but it is not always possible or has its own risks. I talked with a someone that had to travel 5 hours to Vegas to get an abortion and she had serious complications on the ride home. I know others that can't afford to take 2-3 days off work.

and that is why those suck.

[Soldier of the One]

Jesus - heartbeats can be detected as early as 6 or 7 weeks! I was pretty much 'on the ball' with discovering I was pregnant (I waited a week after I was due to get my very regular cycle, tested, and was already 5 weeks pregnant). That means that by the sheer discovery of my pregnancy, I was already 5 weeks along. I am sure new technology will push back the age of detection even further, especially if it is a vaginal ultrasound. What then? Heartbeat at 5 weeks?

This renders abortion virtually impossible.

Also: an unborn human? Really? Have they opened a biology book and taken a look at what a 7 week embryo looks like? It looks like a shrimp, that's what. God knows my pregnancy is very much wanted and I was deeply moved to hear a heartbeat at 7 weeks. But that is my subjective experience and wholly my own.

Ridiculous.

[synchroswimr]

Wow. I guess since "personhood" failed in MS, the heartbeat is a way of essentially banning abortion (as others mentioned, heartbeats can be detected earlier than 8 weeks). The heartbeat can be a pull on the "heartstrings" so to speak of the public, and they get their wish. This scares me

[Buzzard]

[ @ ] joshduggar The Fetal Pain bill on the AR House floor right now 3min

oooohhhh. This is not good... How did it get out of committee so fast? They're voting on this shit NOW?!

[doggie]

Only good thing is any politician the duggers back end up losing.

[Soldier of the One]

Also isn't 'fetal heartbeat' a misnomer (the title of the bill) since medically speaking, we're talking about embryos?

[sunshine]

oooohhhh. This is not good... How did it get out of committee so fast? They're voting on this shit NOW?!

It is a Republican state, so things can move pretty quickly favor something. Imagine how much work they can get done if they used their power for good.

[meda]

Also isn't 'fetal heartbeat' a misnomer (the title of the bill) since medically speaking, we're talking about embryos?

well, that too..but we wouldnt want any scientific accuracy to stand in the way of SAVING THE BABEEZ!!!!!!! :naughty:

[PennySycamore]

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Women and men, too, need to take to the streets protesting this unconstitutional bullshit. Us old-timers also need to do a better job of educating young women about what it was like when abortion was illegal.

[Buzzard]

I read through a good number of "news" articles before posting here. NONE mentioned the possibility that Plan B would be illegal. NONE mentioned that it requires a medical standard that has yet to be determined. NONE mentioned that it can be law without the Governor's signature. NONE mentioned that it likely would mean that abortion is illegal in Arkansas.

Great media we have here.

[Buzzard]

So it appears that the bill passed today in Arkansas is a different bill. The "Fetal Pain Bill" prohibits abortion after 20 weeks. The text of the bill is here:

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/ ... HB1037.pdf

While still a low mark (20 weeks is pretty early), I dont find it nearly as offensive as the Heartbeat bill, which was likely originally written in crayon.

Of course, since it is arkansas, they have to be sure to rub salt in every wound and reduce women to balls of emotions.

(2)(A) However, subdivision (a)(1) of this section does not

28 apply if, in reasonable medical judgment, the pregnant woman has a condition

29 which so complicates her medical condition as to necessitate the abortion of

30 her pregnancy to avert her death or to avert serious risk of substantial and

31 irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant

32 woman, not including psychological or emotional conditions.

33 (B) A condition creating an exemption under subdivision

34 (a)(2)(A) of this section shall not be deemed to exist if the condition is

35 based on a claim or diagnosis that the woman will engage in conduct that she

36 intends to result in her death or in substantial and irreversible physical

1 impairment of a major bodily function.

2 (b)(1) When an abortion upon a woman whose unborn child has been

3 determined under subdivision (a)(1) of this section to have a probable post-

4 fertilization age of twenty (20) or more weeks is not prohibited by this

5 section, the physician shall terminate the pregnancy in the manner which, in

6 reasonable medical judgment, provides the best opportunity for the unborn

7 child to survive.

8 (2)(A) However, subdivision (b)(1) of this section does not

9 apply if, in reasonable medical judgment, termination of the pregnancy in

10 that manner would pose a greater risk either of the death of the pregnant

11 woman or of the substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major

12 bodily function of the woman, not including psychological or emotional

13 conditions, than would other available methods.

14 (B) A risk creating an exemption under subdivision

15 (b)(2)(A) of this section shall not be deemed to exist if it is based on a

16 claim or diagnosis that the woman will engage in conduct that she intends to

17 result in her death or in substantial and irreversible physical impairment of

18 a major bodily function

20-16-1306. Reporting.

21 (a)(1) A physician who performs or induces or attempts to perform or

22 induce an abortion shall report to the Department of Health on a schedule and

23 in accordance with rules adopted by the department.

24 (2) The report required under subdivision (a)(1) of this section

25 shall include without limitation:

26 (A) Whether a determination of probable post-fertilization

27 age was made, the probable post-fertilization age of the unborn child

28 determined, and the method and basis of the determination;

29 (B) If a determination of probable post-fertilization age

30 of the unborn child was not made, the basis of the determination that a

31 medical emergency existed;

32 © If the probable post-fertilization age of the unborn

33 child was determined to be twenty (20) or more weeks, the basis of the

34 determination that the pregnant woman had a condition which so complicated

35 her medical condition as to necessitate the immediate abortion of her

36 pregnancy to avert her death or to avert serious risk of substantial and

1 irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant

2 woman, not including psychological or emotional conditions;

3 (D) The method used for the abortion; and

4 (E) If an abortion was performed when the probable post-

5 fertilization age of the unborn child was determined to be twenty (20) or

6 more weeks:

7 (i) Whether the method used was one that in

8 reasonable medical judgment provided the best opportunity for the unborn

9 child to survive; or

10 (ii) If such a method under subdivision (a)(2)(E)(i)

11 of this section was not used, the basis of the determination that termination

12 of the pregnancy in that manner would pose a greater risk either of the death

13 of the pregnant woman or of the substantial and irreversible physical

14 impairment of a major bodily function of the woman not including

15 psychological or emotional conditions than would other available methods.

So... I can have an abortion if I'm more than 20 weeks pregnant if carrying the pregnancy will PHYSICALLY harm me severely. Psychological conditions are to be disregared. I'm assuming this mean schizophrenia, depression, personality issues... just about everything! Also, I'm to be forced to give birth to a live child if I choose to abort regardless of the psychological effect that will have on me.

Also, if my condition is one that I caused and may continue, I cant have an abortion. Good job protecting women, Arkansas! I hope you have the funds to take care of a whole bunch of 20 week "unborn humans" because that bill is going to be high for a long time!

Do they seriously not think this shit through?

[Violet]

Can someone please explain how a young man who decided to take a nap while his wife was in the late stages of labour and in agony can be qualified to talk about this? Also which woman-hating tosspot wrote this bollocks?! (Excuse my language!) But please explain to me how a clump of cells has more rights that an actual human being, it's disgusting!

I'm feeling for all of you FJers in Arkansas right now, I really hope this bill can be gotten rid of.

[Buzzard]

Oh FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

20-16-1308. Civil remedies.

24 (a)(1) A woman upon whom an abortion has been performed in violation

25 of this subchapter or the father of the unborn child who was the subject of

26 an abortion in violation of this subchapter may bring an action against the

27 person who purposely, knowingly, or recklessly performed or induced the

28 abortion in violation of this subchapter for actual and punitive damages.

I just... HOLY FUCK! So not only is it illegal, but the FATHER gets to sue because a woman chose to abort? Sure, he cant sue HER, but he gets to sue the doctor? This is just insanity!

eta - oh, did I mention this one is an 'emergency' too?

SECTION 2. EMERGENCY CLAUSE. It is found and determined by the

28 General Assembly of the State of Arkansas that abortions of pain-capable

29 unborn children may be legally performed today in Arkansas; that the

30 suffering described in this act should be prohibited at the earliest possible

31 moment; and that this act is immediately necessary because this act will

32 ensure that no abortion of a pain-capable child will be performed in Arkansas

33 after this act becomes effective. Therefore, an emergency is declared to

34 exist and this act being immediately necessary for the preservation of the

35 public peace, health, and safety shall become effective on:

36 (1) The date of its approval by the Governor;

1 (2) If the bill is neither approved nor vetoed by the Governor,

2 the expiration of the period of time during which the Governor may veto the

3 bill; or

4 (3) If the bill is vetoed by the Governor and the veto is

5 overridden, the date the last house overrides the veto.

[sparkles]

This is one of those things that kind of makes me sorry I ever stumbled on FJ. Seriously, the more I learn the more convinced I am that the Marching Morons are taking over and all is lost. I was much happier when I had my head in the sand. How do you fight it all?

[Libby Liberal]

This is just terrifying.

[Buzzard]

This is one of those things that kind of makes me sorry I ever stumbled on FJ. Seriously, the more I learn the more convinced I am that the Marching Morons are taking over and all is lost. I was much happier when I had my head in the sand. How do you fight it all?

We cant rely on the media to tell us what is news anymore. We cant rely on politicians to stand up for what we believe in. The only thing we CAN do is arm ourselves with information and spread it far and wide. Thats why I love FJ. We dont just accept what the NYtimes tells us is the truth, we find the source.

You fight it by knowing the truth, and telling everyone you know.

[SamuraiKatz]

Taking Halo Off...

HOLEEEE FUCK! I live in this state. The partner and I are going to have to take some time off work for a trip to Little Rock. The partner and I are fifty or older, but we DO have four daughters who are 25 or younger. Including one with autism and developmental delays.

In the interim: We need a list of legislators who supported this bullshit. All unwanted babies should be left on THEIR damned door steps. Josh and Jim Bob need to be on the list. They want the unwanted born so badly they can help shoulder the responsibility of raising them.

It is 20 Fucking 13 we should not EVEN be having this discussion any more!

ETA Riffles

ETA I'm too fucking pissed to put my thoughts down completely

[sparkles]

We cant rely on the media to tell us what is news anymore. We cant rely on politicians to stand up for what we believe in. The only thing we CAN do is arm ourselves with information and spread it far and wide. Thats why I love FJ. We dont just accept what the NYtimes tells us is the truth, we find the source.

You fight it by knowing the truth, and telling everyone you know.

Oh, I do tell. And I know how important it is. It amazes me how little I knew about almost all of this prior to FJ. Actually, it's quite frightening how little I knew prior to FJ. The fact that so much of this goes unnoticed by so many is what scares me the most. We would easily wake up one morning to a very different world that came to be because no one was paying attention. It's still hella depressing though.

I had started reading "Kingdom Coming: The Rise of the Christian Right" by Michelle Goldberg during Hurricane Sandy and after we lost power and I was reading by headlamp, it creeped me out so much that I had to stop. Fundies and the world they want for everyone are the stuff nightmares are made of. And even they had better be careful what they wish for.

[Buzzard]

Taking Halo Off...

HOLEEEE FUCK! I live in this state. The partner and I are going to have to take some time off work for a trip to Little Rock. The partner and I are fifty or older, but we DO have four daughters who are 25 or younger. Including one with autism and developmental delays.

In the interim: We need a list of legislators who supported this bullshit. All unwanted babies should be left on THEIR damned door steps. Josh and Jim Bob need to be on the list. They born so badly they can help shoulder the responsibility of raising them.

It is 20 Fucking 13 we should not EVEN be having this discussion any more!

ETA Riffles

Your wish is my command:

Douchebags who drafted and sponsored the "bill written in crayon" aka "heartbeat bill"

By: Senators Rapert, Bledsoe, Caldwell, A. Clark, J. Dismang, J. English, Files, J. Hendren, Hester,

6 Hickey, Holland, J. Hutchinson, Irvin, J. Key, B. King, D. Sanders, G. Stubblefield, E. Williams, J.

7 Woods

8 By: Representatives Clemmer, Alexander, D. Altes, Bell, Dale, Davis, Deffenbaugh, Dotson, C. Douglas,

9 Farrer, Fite, Harris, Hobbs, House, Hutchison, Lea, Mayberry, D. Meeks, Neal, Scott, Westerman,

10 Womack

Douchebags who drafted and sponsored the "pain" bill

By: Representatives Mayberry, Alexander, D. Altes, Baird, Ballinger, Barnett, Bell, Biviano, Bragg,

6 Branscum, J. Burris, Carnine, Clemmer, Collins, Cozart, Dale, Davis, Deffenbaugh, Dotson, D. Douglas,

7 C. Douglas, Eubanks, Farrer, Fite, Gillam, Gossage, Hammer, Harris, Hickerson, Hobbs, Holcomb,

8 House, Hutchison, Jean, Kerr, Lampkin, Lea, Lenderman, Linck, Lowery, S. Malone, D. Meeks, S.

9 Meeks, Miller, Neal, Payton, Rice, Scott, Shepherd, Slinkard, Wardlaw, Westerman, B. Wilkins,

10 Womack, Wren

11 By: Senators Hester, Bledsoe, B. King, G. Stubblefield, J. Woods

Smuggles was kind enough to post how everyone voted on the "pain" bill. Its too big to embed but you can see its 75-20 in favor of this bullshit

https://twitter.com/joshduggar/status/2 ... 12/photo/1