Arkansas Fetal Heartbeat Bill - Be afraid!

[Dollypeeps]

And this is why the Duggars need to be canceled...or for TLC to pull a Kate Gosselin and just show all of the ugly.

Please with bells on for that to happen.

[infooverload]

Ladies of Arkansas guard your birth control with both hands they will come for it next. I would be up shit creek in their state. My hubby and me have one child perfectly healthy and a pure joy. We really have been blessed as they say. However, we do not want another one for the reason my husband has tubular sclerosis. This is a genetic condition and with each pregnancy there is a 50%/50% chance of passing it on. This condition can cause a myriad of problems and health concerns. If they were to outlaw birth control we would be up shit creek. The rythm method is problematic since I have PCOS so trying to figure out cycles is a cosmc joke. Condoms can break and if one did and I ended up pregnant in Arkansas I would be screwed. I mean with my son I didn't find out I was pregnant until 3 months in because I thought my PCOS was just messing with my periods. I know the religious people would say, but it is a blessing from God or "God Never Gives You More than you can handle." The second quote reminds me of an NPR This American Life I listened to a while back where they were interviewing a parent with a child with severe autism and they said "We feel like punching people who say that line to us." So while people like the Duggars have a small circus worth of kids someone needs to remind them it is a lot easier to parent healthy children then those will special needs. Speaking of such has anyone watched the family that has 6 kids with different degrees of autism. I know I have seen them featured on Discovery a few times. When I watch them I think now that is brave, what is not brave is just having healthy child after healthy child.

[Dollypeeps]

So how does your voice vote work ours is so it can proceed to the next stage if my memory serves me correctly or is this it done and dusted no appeals nothing.

[lilwriter85]

And this is why the Duggars need to be canceled...or for TLC to pull a Kate Gosselin and just show all of the ugly.

I would love for that happen, but I don't see TLC showing the ugly. But I think the Duggars might already be the chopping block for TLC though. The show's ratings have been done and TLC seems to focusing more on some of their other shows.

[wild little fox]

If this passes the house and becomes law, and she lives in Arkansas, she's fucked. She's excluded because of being suicidal, and she's excluded because her psychological condition is irrelevant. All that psychological stuff is just debil mumbo jumbo to these lawmakers. She just needs to pray away her demogns, accept Jesus, have the baby, and all will be well.

The bottom line is they care somewhere between jack and shit about the actual health of the mother. Dead women make news, women who have schizophrenic episodes because they're off their meds while pregnant do not. Since only one makes the news their bill (and teh baybeez) are safe if they exempt psych conditions.

This is one of the scariest parts of this bill, at least to me. The only way I have any real quality of life, or any hope for one, is through drugs that may (or may not) damage a fetus. I have extreme episodes of emotional instability and suicidal ideation. I'm infertile (AFAIK) so I'm out of the loop but I can certainly feel empathy for women who NEED their meds to simply navigate life. A state who can pass a law like this can certainly get antidepressants classified as causing defects to fetuses.

[Buzzard]

I just posted this in the instagram thread but it works here too.

â€@joshduggar

@annclemmer & @jasonrapert, sponsors of America's Toughest Pro-Life Legislation, next on @KARK4News! #heartbeatbill pic.twitter.com/HL00FMC7

Its not law yet. It passed the house committee, now it goes to the house. After the house it goes back to the senate because it as modified, then it goes to the governor. We can still hope the house wont pass it, that the governor wont sign it, or that if he does sign it, someone sues immediately.

Shit is scary.

[JenniferJuniper]

Its not law yet. It passed the house committee, now it goes to the house. After the house it goes back to the senate because it as modified, then it goes to the governor. We can still hope the house wont pass it, that the governor wont sign it, or that if he does sign it, someone sues immediately.

Shit is scary.

The governor indicated today his counsel does not believe such a law would be constitutional. So he'd likely veto it. However, in Arkansas a simple majority can override a governor's veto. Republicans hold 51 of the 100 House seats and 21 of the 35 Senate seats.

If there is a veto override, Arkansas is going to find itself in some mighty expensive litigation that will almost certainly end in the law being deemed unconsitituional. So much for fiscal conservativism, especially when one considers what a poor state Arkansas is to begin with.

Grandstanding idiots these Arkansas politicians are. It’s little wonder our Smugs feels so at home with them.

[Buzzard]

The governor indicated today his counsel does not believe such a law would be constitutional. So he'd likely veto it. However, in Arkansas a simple majority can override a governor's veto. Republicans hold 51 of the 100 House seats and 21 of the 35 Senate seats.

If there is a veto override, Arkansas is going to find itself in some mighty expensive litigation that will almost certainly end in the law being deemed unconsitituional. So much for fiscal conservativism, especially when one considers what a poor state Arkansas is to begin with.

Grandstanding idiots these Arkansas politicians are. It’s little wonder our Smugs feels so at home with them.

It will be interesting to see if some of those 51 vote "present" instead and allow this thing to go down the drain. One can only pray that there is some hope for reason.

BTW - this thread is on the first page of google results for the bill. So much for mainstream media discussing this terrifying bill and the impact it can have on millions of women.

[laura oz]

I just feel like beating my head against a wall. I hoped enough squeaky wheels would get some grease. Why did I waste my time contacting anyone? The people here in my town are for the most part the most lovely I've met. There is an element of vanilla that abounds, but I don't think I've met more friendly people even my dentist who is a true fundie and spent about 2 hrs trying to witness to me at a cleaning. Even he was super nice. Misguided, but nice. Where do they breed these people? My husband wants to move here permanently and now I just don't know what to think. :?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I would love for that happen, but I don't see TLC showing the ugly. But I think the Duggars might already be the chopping block for TLC though. The show's ratings have been done and TLC seems to focusing more on some of their other shows.

Silly question, but are there any new episodes? I haven't seen any for a while.

The show will get cancelled simply because it is boring, not for any moral outrage. Honey Boo Boo is more fun and quotable, Cake Boss has more personality, apparently there is an audience for an unlimited number of shows about weddings and dresses.

[slickcat79]

So let's add things up.

Abortions will be nearly impossible to obtain.

Contraception will be unavailable or unaffordable.

A young woman of childbearing age and/or women who have never had children and don't want them and choose voluntary sterilization will be unable to find a doctor who will allow them to undergo the procedure, because, you know, these silly, flighty women just might change their minds.

So when you think about it, women will still have a choice:

To abstain from having sex, even with your spouse because it may result in an unwanted pregnancy.

To be forced to bear a child against your will.

To possibly die from complications during pregnancy or in childbirth because your health and/or the health of the fetus is at risk.

Yeah, tell me the people behind legislation like this don't hate women. :roll:

You forgot about the part where her (future) husband might want kids, so his views clearly outweigh hers :roll:

[Drina Adams]

Try living in Ireland with no access to abortion, even if you've been raped, unless your life,as opposed to your health, is at risk.

[GeoBQn]

Ug, Abigail posted pictures of a pro-life rally in Ireland. As in, a pro-life rally in response to the government reconsidering its stance on abortion after a woman died because she couldn't get one. No, Abigail, women dying isn't "awesome."

[Drina Adams]

There's an organisation in Ireland, Youth Defence, that gets a lot of funding and support from American anti choicers. They are militant, totally unfeeling and want the law to remain exactly as it is, with a strong focus on harassing politicians with organised telephone and email contact to make it seem like they represent the majority view. They are very, very scary people.

[Buzzard]

http://arkansasnews.com/sections/news/a ... roval.html

Apparently it failed to make it out of committee last week by one vote. Apparently they missed the class in representative school (SOTDRT VERSION) where you wait to bring something to the table until you know you have your people there.

All the same, no grounds to celebrate just yet. They'll bring it back. I wonder if thats why Smuggums is back at the capitol today...

The bill passed in that form in the Senate. It stalled in the House before amid objections that it would require women to undergo an invasive trans-vaginal ultrasound and effectively would ban abortions at about six weeks, when a fetal heartbeat can first be detected.

Rapert agreed to an amendment stating that the bill would not ban abortions before 12 weeks and that the heartbeat test would be conducted via external abdominal ultrasound. The bill then passed out of the committee. The bill went back to committee after Rapert developed additional amendments that he said would further strengthen support for the bill, although that support was not in evidence Thursday.

The new exemptions are for medical emergencies and for fetal disorders that likely would be fatal for the child. The bill already included exemptions to save the life of the mother or for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest.

The changes also removed criminal penalties for doctors. Originally, the bill would have made doctors who violate the measure subject to a Class D felony charge, punishable upon conviction by up six years in prison. It now would make the only penalty a revocation of the doctor’s license.

Harris told reporters Thursday he was concerned about the new exemption for fatal fetal anomalies and wanted to study the language.

[laura oz]

God, I have my fingers crossed and am :pray: this thing dies. I've contacted as many people as I could and hope it mattered. It just gives me a sick feeling to know that Smuggs is in Little Rock trying to network & work his charm :roll: Ewww. Just ewwww.

[Buzzard]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/2 ... f=politics

The fetal pain bill has been vetoed. We'll see if they try and override. The heartbeat bill is apparently on the floor today... I'm guessing Smuggles is there.

[Anxious Girl]

Woo-hoo! I wonder if Smuggles will be there with a very unhappy Loony Tunes waah-waah waah~ face. I wonder if Smuggles has Arkansas political connections, because a few days before this anti-constitutional bill, he was posting pics of the Arkansas capital building. Can anybody fill me in on this? :?:

[Buzzard]

Woo-hoo! I wonder if Smuggles will be there with a very unhappy Loony Tunes waah-waah waah~ face. I wonder if Smuggles has Arkansas political connections, because a few days before this anti-constitutional bill, he was posting pics of the Arkansas capital building. Can anybody fill me in on this? :?:

Smuggles is to politicians as Non sock tlc fb posters are to the duggars

LEGHUMPERS!!!!

[Syd+Marky]

So, it goes into effect immediately, if I understand correctly? I'm hoping somebody is going to get an injunction (or whatever legal channels apply I this circumstance) and get it tied up in court.

O ya!Thanks so much Joshy!!.Holy crap-this bill states that the mothers life can be saved over the embryo/fetus,etc.if carrying the pregnancy puts the mothers life at risk-UNLESS the risk is emotional or psychological!!-So if my daughter had an unplanned pregnancy that would require her to quit taking life-saving medication for the duration of pregnancy,she would be denied an abortion because that life-saving medication is for a mental-health issue.So the risk of suicide is apparently not enough risk to the mother to warrant an abortion.Wow-

edited to fix typo

[Kitchen Princess]

The heartbeat bill is still in the senate, I think. It's also called the 12 week bill.

Gov. Beebe vetoed the 20 week bill, but the house already voted to overturn. I think the senate has to vote, too, and I think that's taking place tomorrow. ACLU has already said it would sue, and Beebe told them he vetoed it because it was unconstitutional. If I were voting on the 12 week bill tomorrow, I would vote against it, since there is no way the gov is going to sign and the ACLU will sue for sure.

[laura oz]

I checked in on another board tonight and a thread (they have so many "debates" I'm not even sure which one I posted on) was talking about this. Every day it seems someone is taking one aspect of the prolife argument and asking everyone's opinion. Shit stirring basically. I'm an easy going person who ignores almost all of those threads, but preening arrogant ignorance gets me riled. I read most of the thread and posted - up till then- the only pro choice viewpoint. I was nice, but quoted George Carlin- preborn ok. preschool you're fucked. I'm sure I'll have oodles of them foaming at the mouth and blasting me. These chicks can be pretty persistent in sending messages. Eh, it's worth it. I just had to say something :mrgreen:

[Buzzard]

Considering the bill has an immediate effective date with no definitions or procedures that it requires in the text itself it beyond unconstitutional, its just stupid. If this were a law regarding removal of wisdom teeth it would still fail as void for vagueness. The fact that no representative is willing to stand up and say "I'm anti choice but this law is written in crayon" is truly terrifying. They are perfectly happy to stand on their soap box and piss on tax payer dollars.

The law requires:

(2) Tests performed under subdivision (b)(1) of this section

4 shall be approved by the Arkansas State Medical Board.

5 ©(1) The Arkansas State Medical Board shall adopt rules:

6 (A)(i) Based on standard medical practice for testing for the fetal

7 heartbeat of an unborn human individual.

8 (ii) Rules adopted under subdivision ©(1) of this

9 section shall specify that a test for fetal heartbeat is not required in the

10 case of a medical emergency; and

11 (B) To define, based on available medical evidence, the

12 statistical probability of bringing an unborn human individual to term based

13 on the gestational age of the unborn human individual possessing a detectible

14 heartbeat.

So, assuming the vote on the veto is tomorrow, then a physician is subject to the loss of his license via a governmental action (4th amendment) without sufficient knowledge that such action is a violation. They have no way of knowing their action is a violation because the medical board has yet to comply and define the required protocol. Additionally, they have had insufficient time to educate doctors on the limits and practices.

So, in effect, all abortion is banned and physicians are subjected to an arbitrary taking of their livelihood based upon a vague and poorly worded set of requirements.

Patently unconstitutional, and we dont even have to say the word "abortion."

I like this little diddy thats added to the end:

20-16-1307. Tolling of effective date.

27 If a state or federal court of competent jurisdiction voids a provision

28 of this subchapter as unconstitutional, the effective date of that provision

29 shall be tolled until that provision has been upheld as valid by an appellate

30 tribunal.

Go ahead and write your check to the attorney's that will represent this law now, cuz this shits about to be tolled.

[GeoBQn]

Update: Gov. Beebe vetoed the 12-week abortion ban bill, but the Arkansas house just overrode the veto.

[Buzzard]

Update: Gov. Beebe vetoed the 12-week abortion ban bill, but the Arkansas house just overrode the veto.

I'm sure it will take effect tomorrow - and the ACLU will likely file before COB. Shame on you, Arkansas. :naughty: