Kelly Bates had another miscarriage

[BayLee_10]

Baylee, are you going to talk to them about the accusations of molestation from former teens/women who worked with Gothard? If you really care you would, especially since Gothard has seemed to single them out and do things like pay for them to go on mission trips with him. Anyone who has been in ATI could tell you that Erin has the perfect Gothard approved "look" that he likes when choosing teens/women to "work" with him. What are the Bates' thoughts on the fact that most people raised in ATI families end up hating it, hating Gothard, and hating the way they were raised?

Yes, formergothardite, I will get right on that. Nothing like confrontation to end the relationship I have and the opportunity to show the kids, a bit at a time, that the outside world isn't so scary after all, and that people show more respect to you if you aren't wearing frumpers. Now I have the am free to email, text, and invited to visit. Cutting that relationship off would accomplish what exactly? Since I do care, very much in fact, I think I will do it my way. Obviously you are too young to realize that working within a system is often more effective, which doesn't mean agreeing with a belief system I disagree with, it means trying to shine a bit of light where there wasn't much. So far, so good.

[Witsec7]

Yes, formergothardite, I will get right on that. Nothing like confrontation to end the relationship I have and the opportunity to show the kids, a bit at a time, that the outside world isn't so scary after all, and that people show more respect to you if you aren't wearing frumpers. Now I have the am free to email, text, and invited to visit. Cutting that relationship off would accomplish what exactly? Since I do care, very much in fact, I think I will do it my way. Obviously you are too young to realize that working within a system is often more effective, which doesn't mean agreeing with a belief system I disagree with, it means trying to shine a bit of light where there wasn't much. So far, so good.

I think it's pretty fucked up when an adult woman wants to preserve a relationship with abusers and not address the issue directly. I guess Bayley finds it rather easy to ignore the fact that other young women may be molested in the meantime. Personally I couldn't live with myself

[marmalade]

funpal, you sound very fundie. Non-denominational is a fundie denomination in spite of the name. It just has no central organization like other denominations because every preacher likes to think he is just special and doesn't need to listen to anyone. And the way you phrased "church that follows the Bible" also screams fundie. It implies that you believe there are churches that don't follow the Bible. I don't even want to know which churches you think don't follow the Bible, but I can probably guess pretty accurately.

It's good that you don't abuse and neglect your children like the Duggars and Bateses do, but I still think you are fundie or fundie-lite, and not because of the amount of kids you have.

Non-denominational isn't always fundie; my husband attended a very liberal ND church until he picked up a 6th day of work, ending Saturdays at midnight. Now, he'd rather sleep. :D

Just wanted to clear up that misconception.

[Nothing2CHere]

BayLee, how did you come to personally know the Bates? Your Facebook page says you live in New York. I don't follow the Bates very much, but aren't they in Tennessee?

[formergothardite]

I'm in my mid 30's hardly super young.

Your reply can only mean two things:

1. The Bates already know that the man they pay money to and are sending their teen girls on mission trips has been accused by multiple people of molesting teens and women and they don't give a shit and will cut off people who dare to mention that they guy they worship has these charges against them. If they didn't worship him they would be able to calmly address why they don't view these as serious charges when it is brought up to them. Which means that they aren't really great people are they?

2. They don't know. And Bayle, you do and you are too scared to warn them that they are sending their children off with a man who has been accused of molesting teen girls who went on mission trips with him. So what sort of person are you that you won't warn your friends that they are giving money and sending their teens off with a man who might molest them?

[bananacat]

If "Bible following church" isn't code for fundie, then it's pretty inane. It's like if I said that I have shoes that go on my feet. And Methodist is a far cry from non-denominational.

Funpal, I don't give a fuck that you have 20 kids. I even explicitly said so in my comment that that is not why I think you're fundie. Either you're fundie-lite, or you have some serious communication problems, both with expressing yourself and reading comprehension. Or both.

But in general I don't see any reason why I should tiptoe around newbies.

[formergothardite]

Here is a link where a woman talks about how Gothard lied to her and harrassed her at home until she finally came to work for them and then the second she was there the sexual harrassment started.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/ ... ence/#more

My parents are now horrified when they read what really went on in ATI and wish they had have known. If they had read these accusations they would not have joined, but this was before most of the people raised in ATI had escaped and made public what was really going on. They couldn't read accounts from former students. But the Bates can. So there is no excuse for them to not address to their friends why they don't take these accusations seriously.

[Deleted01]

Here is a link where a woman talks about how Gothard lied to her and harrassed her at home until she finally came to work for them and then the second she was there the sexual harrassment started.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/ ... ence/#more

My parents are now horrified when they read what really went on in ATI and wish they had have known. If they had read these accusations they would not have joined, but this was before most of the people raised in ATI had escaped and made public what was really going on. They couldn't read accounts from former students. But the Bates can. So there is no excuse for them to not address to their friends why they don't take these accusations seriously.

I don't mean to hijack, (though do I love the FJ rule that there is no rule about staying on topic) but is your story to be found somewhere? I do hope that Baylee and anyone else on the inside will have the compassion for those girls to speak out against him. I wonder what would happen to the whole ATI thing if Gothard goes to prison....

[formergothardite]

My story is fairly boring. LOL. I was raised on Character Sketches (seriously, first books I rember sitting there and looking at) but it wasn't till I was older that my parents actually joined ATI. My parents consantly flipped flopped from banning tv and non-Gothard approved music to letting us watch as much tv as we liked and listening to music with a beat. I went to one of the early EXCEL programs and my siblings went to various other ATI programs. After several years of having family vacations at Knoxville (not fun, by the way) my parents finally came to their senses and left.

Gothard is smart. He only touches teens in ways that he can claim was innocent and didn't mean anything.

[Deleted01]

My story is fairly boring. LOL. I was raised on Character Sketches (seriously, first books I rember sitting there and looking at) but it wasn't till I was older that my parents actually joined ATI. My parents consantly flipped flopped from banning tv and non-Gothard approved music to letting us watch as much tv as we liked and listening to music with a beat. I went to one of the early EXCEL programs and my siblings went to various other ATI programs. After several years of having family vacations at Knoxville (not fun, by the way) my parents finally came to their senses and left.

Sounds almost like what I subjected my poor children to as an IFB. We never banned TV but were very selective (ahem, discerning) about what we watched or let the kids watch. We tried to dump the rock music - my hubby trashed all of his metal collection but it was just cassettes. I think we've restocked and multiplied the collection with CDs/MP3s since then. The kids did AWANA, but I was a terrible AWANA mom. My oldest was an early reader so she could do her own memorization pretty much from the time she started Cubbies. My younger two kids could read well enough, but weren't as motivated to memorize snippets of out-of-context verses, for some reason. :D I never did get into dresses/skirts only, though all three Christian schools that I worked in over the years had a dress code similar to what Gothardites wear, and several people I worked with remind me of J'Chelle with fewer kids. Not too many in my circles were anti-BC. Quite the opposite, really. That's part of why I say I was fundie-lite, but if I'm honest I'll say I was fundie-medium well. ;)

Gothard is smart. He only touches teens in ways that he can claim was innocent and didn't mean anything.

That just infuriates me.

[BayLee_10]

I don't mean to hijack, (though do I love the FJ rule that there is no rule about staying on topic) but is your story to be found somewhere? I do hope that Baylee and anyone else on the inside will have the compassion for those girls to speak out against him. I wonder what would happen to the whole ATI thing if Gothard goes to prison....

I find it hard to understand why Bill Gothard isn't in prison after reading that sad and alarming story. Never-the-less, others who have attempted to bring up anything negative about Bill Gothard to Kelly were met with instantaneous, knee jerk denial. Since the 3 Bates girls who have traveled to Chile and Romania on this man's missions have never mentioned anything untoward to me I think there may be strength in numbers. Three as opposed to a girl basically alone. It would be hard for me to imagine that either Kelly or Gil would physically abuse or mentally abuse any of their children. They literally live for them. Several years ago I met Kelly through a recipe exchange. We just hit it off. Maybe she liked my Creamsicle Salad. I used to live in the south, Virginia, Maryland and Kentucky near the Tennessee border.

[lilith]

I find it hard to understand why Bill Gothard isn't in prison after reading that sad and alarming story. Never-the-less, others who have attempted to bring up anything negative about Bill Gothard to Kelly were met with instantaneous, knee jerk denial. Since the 3 Bates girls who have traveled to Chile and Romania on this man's missions have never mentioned anything untoward to me I think there may be strength in numbers. Three as opposed to a girl basically alone. It would be hard for me to imagine that either Kelly or Gil would physically abuse or mentally abuse any of their children. They literally live for them. Several years ago I met Kelly through a recipe exchange. We just hit it off. Maybe she liked my Creamsicle Salad. I used to live in the south, Virginia, Maryland and Kentucky near the Tennessee border.

Do you really think the Bates girls would tell you, an acquaintance older than their mother, if Mr Gothard, who they have been raised to follow and revere, touched them in ways that made them uncomfortable?

If so, why?

[Sprocket]

I find it hard to understand why Bill Gothard isn't in prison after reading that sad and alarming story. Never-the-less, others who have attempted to bring up anything negative about Bill Gothard to Kelly were met with instantaneous, knee jerk denial. Since the 3 Bates girls who have traveled to Chile and Romania on this man's missions have never mentioned anything untoward to me I think there may be strength in numbers. Three as opposed to a girl basically alone. It would be hard for me to imagine that either Kelly or Gil would physically abuse or mentally abuse any of their children. They literally live for them. Several years ago I met Kelly through a recipe exchange. We just hit it off. Maybe she liked my Creamsicle Salad. I used to live in the south, Virginia, Maryland and Kentucky near the Tennessee border.

A recipe exchange? So which is it... a recipe exchange with Kelly or just randomly started sending the Bates girls fabric for their sewing and a grandmother/granddaughter relationship started over time through that.

[formergothardite]

I find it hard to understand why Bill Gothard isn't in prison after reading that sad and alarming story. Never-the-less, others who have attempted to bring up anything negative about Bill Gothard to Kelly were met with instantaneous, knee jerk denial. Since the 3 Bates girls who have traveled to Chile and Romania on this man's missions have never mentioned anything untoward to me I think there may be strength in numbers. Three as opposed to a girl basically alone. It would be hard for me to imagine that either Kelly or Gil would physically abuse or mentally abuse any of their children. They literally live for them. Several years ago I met Kelly through a recipe exchange. We just hit it off. Maybe she liked my Creamsicle Salad. I used to live in the south, Virginia, Maryland and Kentucky near the Tennessee border.

And these people who are so in love with a man that they refuse to look at the abuse he has inflicted on countless students are good parents?

The thing is, Bill isn't dumb, he isn't going to do anything that can't be explained away by either him or the parents who worship him. So if he makes one of the Bates women (they aren't all children anymore) uncomfortable by wanting to constantly hold their hand or any of the other numerous things that he did to that girl, chances are Gil and Kelly are just going to meet these accusations against Bill with the same instantaneous, knee jerk denial that they have when anyone questions Gothard. They worship Gothard and it is obvious. They live for him, not their kids. If they lived for their children they would be willing to take a long look at Gothard.

So next time you try to tell us what great parents they are, keep in mind that these are the same parents that refuse to even question a man that has been accused of molesting teens in his care.

[Witsec7]

And these people who are so in love with a man that they refuse to look at the abuse he has inflicted on countless students are good parents?

The thing is, Bill isn't dumb, he isn't going to do anything that can't be explained away by either him or the parents who worship him. So if he makes one of the Bates women (they aren't all children anymore) uncomfortable by wanting to constantly hold their hand or any of the other numerous things that he did to that girl, chances are Gil and Kelly are just going to meet these accusations against Bill with the same instantaneous, knee jerk denial that they have when anyone questions Gothard. They worship Gothard and it is obvious. They live for him, not their kids. If they lived for their children they would be willing to take a long look at Gothard.

So next time you try to tell us what great parents they are, keep in mind that these are the same parents that refuse to even question a man that has been accused of molesting teens in his care.

And please let's not forget that Bailey values her relationship with the Bates et al, over protecting other women from the abuses of Gothard. Heck she won't even broach the subject lest her fundy pets get upset with her and cut off their 'friendship'. Such bullshit.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that if I was a parent, I would be more angry at someone for knowing my kid was alone with someone who has molested girls in the past and did not tell me, than someone who heard about it and then bought up their concerns.

[formergothardite]

I think that if I was a parent, I would be more angry at someone for knowing my kid was alone with someone who has molested girls in the past and did not tell me, than someone who heard about it and then bought up their concerns.

That would be because you would be a good parent. It appears that the Bates are not good parents becaus their reaction would be immediate denial and to cut off the person who brought up the concerns.

[synchroswimr]

I think that if I was a parent, I would be more angry at someone for knowing my kid was alone with someone who has molested girls in the past and did not tell me, than someone who heard about it and then bought up their concerns.

Word.

My uncle (by marriage, now passed away) made inappropriate comments and signs of affection when I was a kid, which I apparently I never told my parents. When they found out last year (20+ years after the fact), my dad was full of rage at the uncle and the thought that he might have done worse (I don't remember much of my childhood). Those poor kids

[NurseNell]

I was a Navy dependent. My last child was born at the Newport Naval Hospital in Newport, Rhode Island. After missing my second period the clinic doctor told me I was pregnant. Obviously I was not surprised. In those days weren't women still required to leave the armed services on becoming pregnant? Therefore it would be much more important for a, if women were still WAVES, to know.

I wasn't a Wave, I was in the Navy Nurse Corps. Yes, in 1970 women were discharged if they were pregnant. If she was single she was usually discharged in a matter of days. If married she was discharged in a matter of weeks. I was married, and, as it turned out, not pregnant, so I wasn't discharged.

[BayLee_10]

I wasn't a Wave, I was in the Navy Nurse Corps. Yes, in 1970 women were discharged if they were pregnant. If she was single she was usually discharged in a matter of days. If married she was discharged in a matter of weeks. I was married, and, as it turned out, not pregnant, so I wasn't discharged.

Sorry, I see that I forgot to mention my last child was born in 1970. So did you stay in and retire? Just curious.

[BayLee_10]

Just curious because my daughter who was the 1970 baby joined the Air Force post HS, then went to nursing school with her GI Bill.

As to the rest of the questions, and this is not addressed to NurseNell, years ago I joined a recipe exchange which included Kelly. She and I began talking and then emailing. She told me that Michael (she likes that now) bought material with her babysitting money for the dresses she made the little girls, so I sent her some fabric. She thanked me and we began emailing and texting. The same with some others. No, I sure don't think anyone would tell me about any sexual abuse, but would they be so gleeful and enthusiastic when telling me about the trips? I have no idea. I am not trying to hijack anyone's grandchildren, I have 13 of my own. I know it is hard for you to believe but the girls and Kelly seem to like me, lying shape shifter than I am. And that is the extent of my relationship. I don't stalk them and I don't know any other fundamentalists or Gothardites. The reason I joined FJ was because I was curious about the Duggar/Gothard connection, having never heard of Gothard or the Quiverful movement. I never expected to be called a liar, or have every dotted i and crossed t inspected on any comment I ever made. Wouldn't you think I would stay the hell away from this site? You'd also think I would stop watching the Duggars. Go figure!

[lilith]

Just curious because my daughter who was the 1970 baby joined the Air Force post HS, then went to nursing school with her GI Bill.

As to the rest of the questions, and this is not addressed to NurseNell, years ago I joined a recipe exchange which included Kelly. She and I began talking and then emailing. She told me that Michael (she likes that now) bought material with her babysitting money for the dresses she made the little girls, so I sent her some fabric. She thanked me and we began emailing and texting. The same with some others. No, I sure don't think anyone would tell me about any sexual abuse, but would they be so gleeful and enthusiastic when telling me about the trips? I have no idea. I am not trying to hijack anyone's grandchildren, I have 13 of my own. I know it is hard for you to believe but the girls and Kelly seem to like me, lying shape shifter than I am. And that is the extent of my relationship. I don't stalk them and I don't know any other fundamentalists or Gothardites. The reason I joined FJ was because I was curious about the Duggar/Gothard connection, having never heard of Gothard or the Quiverful movement. I never expected to be called a liar, or have every dotted i and crossed t inspected on any comment I ever made. Wouldn't you think I would stay the hell away from this site? You'd also think I would stop watching the Duggars. Go figure!

But in that case don't you think it's creepy to run a fan page and gossip about them on a snark board (much as the goss is appreciated)? I would find it creepy if a friendly acquaintance did that to me.

[rock_girl]

Creamsicle salad? I just googled... That's some pretty terrifying pudding.

What's wrong with making a nice trifle? You get the same satisfying gloopiness, can leave out the booze if the Lord demands, and there's still enough sugar to make your dentist cry.

[formergothardite]

Baylee, you seem to be avoiding a key question: do good parents refuse to question a man that has been accused of sexually harrassing teens in his ministry? Is knee jerk denial when people bring up these sort of concerns a good parenting technique? You claim that Gil and Kelly are good parents, yet this is how they act? So are you really saying these sort of actions are the actions of good parents?

[NurseNell]

Sorry, I see that I forgot to mention my last child was born in 1970. So did you stay in and retire? Just curious.

No, I didn't. I wanted to but my DH was set on going to med school in Ann Arbor, MI. I was offered recruiting duty in Detroit but I didn't become a nurse to be a recruiter, and Detroit? No way. So I did 5 years of active duty and 5 years of reserves.