Bates Family Part 5

[grandmadugger]

A Duggar child is going to Crown College, so IMO the other Duggar children might have just not been interested in going to get a college degree that they knew they would probably never use. They have a very, very limited amount of approved things to study and if I was in that situation and I didn't have an approved interest I would probably end up looking a lot like a Duggar child. Erin lucked out that she has a natural talent and interest in something that is encouraged in ATI but can also make her money. 

And I don't consider "working" at HQ any more useful than what Jill does. I got to give the Duggars credit that their adult children haven't exactly been following the ATI approved path, the Bates, on the other hand, have all the kids right in line with what Bill approves, they just know how to put a shiny, happy face on the evil that lurks in the background of their beliefs so that people think they are nicer and better. 

 

But Brandon has a paying job something Jill doesn't have.  HQ is evil but he's not grifting for his next meal.  Jill's on vacation.

[SassyPants]

Yep- a paying job= adult responsibilities, outside interaction and being in the real world.

All the Duggars do is grift...

JB taught his kids that grifting for a living is preferable to working for a living.

[formergothardite]

I think that it is most likely that the Bates children were raised with the humiliation of grifting and that is why they try to avoid it. It wasn't that Gil and Kelly instilled good morals such as hard work into their children, and Jim Bob didn't. Also, I think the age and amount of time spent being reality tv stars plays into the behavior the adults too. I'm not convinced that the Bates wouldn't be exactly like the Duggars if they had gotten the tv show instead of the Duggars. I also think Gil and Kelly would have handled an Josh situation exactly like Jim Bob and Michelle did. 

Brandon's paying job is with a cult where the money to pay him comes from years of child labor. 

ETA: Jim Bob grifted, but it didn't seem to be to the extent that Gil did. Plus Jim Bob had insurance for his children while Gil bragged about how wonderful it was that he could walk into any ER and they would be forced to treat his children even if he couldn't pay. 

[AngelGirl8811]

The Duggars and Bates are two faces of the same coin. They are exactly the same, Gil and Kelly just appear nicer because they interact with their children and know a little bit about them. The children seem to be where they differ, are they all still in some way drowning in the kool aid? Yes they are but they have all found jobs or ended up with someone who has a job. Which is different from the Duggars who are still grifting or living off Mom and Dad. The Bates are easier to smile along with because they seem so down to earth and nice but they are ATI. What lurks beneath that nice surface, probably would shock us all. 

[princessmahina]

The Duggars and Bates are two faces of the same coin. They are exactly the same, Gil and Kelly just appear nicer because they interact with their children and know a little bit about them. The children seem to be where they differ, are they all still in some way drowning in the kool aid? Yes they are but they have all found jobs or ended up with someone who has a job. Which is different from the Duggars who are still grifting or living off Mom and Dad. The Bates are easier to smile along with because they seem so down to earth and nice but they are ATI. What lurks beneath that nice surface, probably would shock us all. 

For the sake of the children, I hope there's nothing as bad as Josh's molestation scandal.

[formergothardite]

I'm not sure it will be about the Bates children, but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if it came out that Gil helped cover up abuse that is way worse than the Josh scandal. The things that happened in those training centers were awful. 

[nelliebelle1197]

michelle is insane. Kelly is not. 

Kelly is in a cult but is also a typical old-fashioned mama that wants her children to  find a good husband/wife. And she seems to encourage children to have a job ( some are at college, Lawson had a business, she is proud of Michael working , Erin the pianist and Zach being a policeman). She seems proud of them, Michelle is just proud of herself and her fertility.

Michelle is cold, seems to have no feelings. Probably motherhood has been too hard and she disconected. She and J Bob seem to encourage their sons-in-law to ministry and to not work. And there's no college for their children and not real jobs. They are not thinking in children's future!

Jeeeeesus. Kelly Bates is in a cult because she is batnuts crazy. She is more intelligent and more savvy than Michelle, but she is just as obsessed with fertility as Michelle Duggar. She nineteen kids, FFS! She is a class A grifter and lunatic.

She and her husband support a child molester and the only jobs and colleges the kids are allowed are Gothard-approved.

I don't know if its because the Bates parents are college grads or came to ATI after having a few kids or what, but they seem to actually have an almost more balanced view of their belief system. I really don't hear the kids parroting the "ATI party line" much at all. All the married kids seem to have married for love. and none of them really seem to have the almost rabid baby fever that the Duggar spawn have. Zach and Whitney just celebrated Bradley's first birthday with seemingly no announcement on the horizon, Erin and Alyssa seem to be happy with the one they have...Michael hasn't announced yet, we shall see with her. All three seemed to have competent medical care during their pregnancies, they all delivered in hospitals with OBs. Contrast that to the Duggars. The M kids were not birthed with OBs, Jill and Jessa had disasterous deliveries, one had a C-section, the other one almost bled out.

Seems that maybe the Bates kids are a little bit more firmly grounded in the real world.

The Bates parents are more educated, media-savvy and more deeply connected/entrenched to IBLP and the covert PR practiced and approved by IBLP/Gothard than the Duggars.

The Duggars are uneducated hicks who lucked out with a TV show about their child collecting via birth.

[formergothardite]

I think Kelly is just as insane as Michelle, she is just better at hiding it. 

[nokidsmom]

I have said it before and will say it again. 

Kelly is much more media savvy, she knows exactly how to portray her family as being more likeable and less crazy, less "bad".   It's putting lipstick on a pig.  Sure she admits that they learn from experiences such as Zach's failed courtship and yes, they let the kids get an education, but make no mistake they hold just as dangerous beliefs as the Duggars.   They have a stronger connection to Gothard, something they hope people won't notice.   Right now, they have to sweating with the lawsuit again IBLP.   Gil is a follower not a leader, he's on the board because he doesn't present a challenge.

Yes, it's good the married kids have jobs.   But remember that their dad quit what appeared to be a decent job not only to grift off people but also rely on his own children to help the family out either in or outside the home.  It's a known fact that Lawson has helped support the family.   Don't tell me that other kids haven't had to hand over their wages to help pay the bills.    Kelly still employed the buddy system just like J'chelle and she has relied heavily on her daughters for other household duties.    Those kids had to work.   I think that if the Bateseses had a popular show just like the Duggars, they would have turned out the same way. 

 

[formergothardite]

Kelly employed an even worse version of the buddy system than Michelle. Kelly couldn't even be bothered to take care of newborns, they had buddies to do that. She also used dangerous and awful baby training. 

If the Bateseseses kids turn out well it will be in spite of Kelly and Gil, not because of them. 

[singsingsing]

I actually agree that Kelly is more mentally healthy and stable than Michelle. I'm not talking about the sanity of her choices, but her actual mental health. Michelle is clearly barely keeping it together, and that's been the case with her... pretty much from the beginning, by her own admission. Naturally that's going to affect family dynamics. But (if I'm right), what does that actually say about Kelly vs. Michelle? That Michelle embraced a more and more extreme version of religion because she was young, terrified, incredibly insecure and neurotic, whereas Kelly embraced it because she thought it was the best and most rational choice? Which is better? It is probably better in some ways to be raised by someone like Kelly rather than Michelle, but in terms of motivation... eh.

[nokidsmom]

I remember someone, it might have been a poster here, reporting on having known the Bates family years ago.   She mentioned that the kids had to walk in a line with their hand on the other shoulders, this was back before they were on TV and in the big collar frumper stage.

The Bates cleaned up their act publicly because of their media coverage.   But behind the scenes I suspect things are not so happy, Kelly strikes me as someone whom no kid would dare to cross.

I still am of the belief that Zach and Alyssa married to get out of there.  Don't get that same feeling with Erin, but she did have the benefit of going to Crown plus her piano work which probably got her out of a lot of drudgery.    I don't know how Kelly is coping with Michael out of the house as it appears that Michael did a LOT of work.  

Don't get me wrong, the married kids appear genuinely happy with their respective spouses, but living their own lives in their own home has got to be a vacation compared to living under their parent's roof.

[imokit]

I remember someone, it might have been a poster here, reporting on having known the Bates family years ago.   She mentioned that the kids had to walk in a line with their hand on the other shoulders, this was back before they were on TV and in the big collar frumper stage.

They've shown the line thing on their show a couple of times.  It was so they didn't lose kids.  I think that once you have that many kids, using the line is probably one of the safest ways to keep track of them.  Even the 10+ age range can get distracted and stop to look at something and then get lost.  A line stops that happening and is probably a reasonably safe way of managing a gazillion children in public.

Of course the sensible thing to do would be to only to have the children you can manage without draconian crowd control measures. 

[AngelGirl8811]

For the sake of the children, I hope there's nothing as bad as Josh's molestation scandal.

I doubt it's a Josh like scandal but I don't doubt that there have been things that they have covered up. Whatever it would be, things rarely stay buried. 

[formergothardite]

I think Kelly and Michelle are both unstable, but in different ways. Both are clearly obsessed with having children while not paying much attention to the needs of the children they already have. Kelly is more aware that most people don't approve of their beliefs while Michelle always seems shocked when people don't see things the way she sees them. This makes Kelly a bit more dangerous because while Michelle lets the crazy hang out for the world to see, Kelly knows enough to hide it as much as she can. 

[Kak]

The Bates leghumping round here is unbelievable. 

[Melissa1977]

Kelly employed an even worse version of the buddy system than Michelle. Kelly couldn't even be bothered to take care of newborns, they had buddies to do that. She also used dangerous and awful baby training. 

If the Bateseseses kids turn out well it will be in spite of Kelly and Gil, not because of them. 

what baby training? 

I have a baby... Thinking on baby training breaks my heart.

[formergothardite]

what baby training? 

I have a baby... Thinking on baby training breaks my heart.

Kelly is a fan of Ezzo. His baby training advice is so bad that babies have died and suffered failure to thrive. Even Focus on the Family warns against following his advice. 

[HermioneSparrow]

I think Kelly is smarter and the Bates portray a better image... Michelle is completely unstable and the Duggars are uneducated nutjobs. But Kelly and Gil are as horrible as Michelle and Jim Bob, sure, they're educated and maybe more loving towards the kids but their views are the same. It also helps that Gil and Kelly seem to love each other genuinely and have a better and more equal relationship which reflects on their kids, where as Michelle and Jim Bob have a creepy unstable relationship. Conclusion: They're both awful.

[withaj]

Sure, the Bates are awful, and no, there aren't many differences between them and the Duggars -- other than being far more deeply embedded with IBLP, which is gross and sinister. However, I do think the Bates' relative openness to education and the fact that their children seem to have been allowed to develop individual personalities bodes better for their kids in the long run. 

[Dandruff]

IIRC, on one of the earlier Duggar shows, Gil said that it was Kelly (not him) who wanted to not limit the size of their family.  She then convinced him.  So I think she's the one who got them involved with Gothard.  I agree that Kelly puts a much better face on that mess than Michelle though.

[MsSaylor]

Jim bob used to always say that too-that subsequent children were always Michelle's choice. That he always left it up to her. I think this is something they just say to make it more palatable to those outside quiverful, so no one thinks the women are forced into having non stop babies. Kind of like how flds folks always talk about how it's the women who receive a calling as to who and when they will marry. As if. 

[nelliebelle1197]

I think Kelly and Michelle are both unstable, but in different ways. Both are clearly obsessed with having children while not paying much attention to the needs of the children they already have. Kelly is more aware that most people don't approve of their beliefs while Michelle always seems shocked when people don't see things the way she sees them. This makes Kelly a bit more dangerous because while Michelle lets the crazy hang out for the world to see, Kelly knows enough to hide it as much as she can. 

You got a downvote on this. Same person downvoted my initial post. It blows my mind that people come HERE and want to hump a fundie. This is not fundie humpland. Repeat, THIS IS NOT FUNDIE HUMPLAND. There are plenty of places to go, ElijahsMama, to hump the Bateseseses.

[singsingsing]

Yeah, I really don't get the downvotes in this thread. If you disagree with someone, tell them why. Make your argument. I don't understand downvoting someone on Free Jinger for expressing a rational negative opinion about a fundie. It's not a 'disagree' button.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Just saw on Instagram that Nathan spent thanksgiving with Ashley/Anastasia and their family (or they came to him).