New Low in Parenting Trends: Free Range Kids

[freejoytoo]

When my dad was little, in the fifties, his two older sisters were in charge of him, aged about four and five. One time they lost him on a building site and another time they lost control of the pram and it went into a (very shallow) stream, luckily a man managed to grab it before it went in properly. Crazy to think now. I don't think the world was much safer then either, people just didn't talk so much about danger and there was less media coverage. I don't think we should go back to that level of trusting children, but I do think we are hyper-aware today.

[warpedfactor9]

I can not imagine how kids who are so over-protected that they can't even ride the bus or a train until they are practically adults can possibly be expected to function as adults able to make their own decisions. How does someone go from being supervised 24/7 at 16 to living independently at 20 ? Where is the gradual, normal growth of decision making capability come in ?

And I call bullshit on kids only being safe in previous generations because it was one big Leave it to Beaver world where everyone knew everyone else and watched out for each other. Growing up in the early 70's in a quiet subdivision my parents knew the names of maybe two of the neighbors. I still managed to survive taking care of myself after school when my parents were at work, or playing outside until it was dark, or taking the bus across town to my grandmothers at 8ish ... omg all alone !

People are just terrified of every little thing now because they have 24 hour news and the internet to make them think that there is a predator lurking in ever corner.

Ridiculous.

My aunt got a job at her daughter's elementary school because she couldn't stand to let the poor kid out of her sight. She won't even just drop her off at gynastics (my cousin is in high school now) and go run some errands. This past April was the first time my cousin was allowed to fly up here to visit me and my siblings by herself. Her mom called her every few hours. My cousin was thrilled to get away from her.

I'm twice my cousin's age and growing up in the 80's, my brother and I were pretty free range. We weren't supposed to be in the house after school unless we had homework. Mom kicked us out to go play at the park and she'd whistle when it was time for dinner. We were also allowed to ride our bikes up to the video store by ourselves to rent something. I can't imagine who I'd be if I had to be raised by my aunt rather than my own mother.

[BelieveinScience]

I grew up in the nineties. From the age of about nine I was allowed to walk to school by myself (ten minutes away) and, after being shown the journey a few times, I always walked to high school by myself, which was twenty minutes away. I don't remember ever being left alone in the car but some of my friends were if their parents were just buying milk.

I think children are slightly overprotected these days but I don't think I would let my hypothetical nine-year-old ride a train by his or herself. I wasn't allowed to get a bus into town by myself until I was twelve. I do think it's crazy to assume that a group of seventeen and eighteen-year-olds are too young to ride a train back by themselves. Immature? Obviously, but they're in their late teens, and some are legally adults.

I never walked/rode to school because all my schools growing up were a 10-20minute drive away. I did however take the school bus. Something which all but one of my friends who have kids won't put their kids on because "school buses are dangerous."

[snarkbillie]

Except what you said is you'd "never leave her alone".

To me "never" means just that. It doesn't mean "maybe 15 minutes would be okay" or "when she gets older". It means never.

And you think this is a silly, overly literal comment, but it's not that unusual to find people saying things like "I wouldn't even let my 15 year old do this!" when it's something your average 7 year old could do. If you say never, I assume you mean never.

Is this one of those forums where people are not allowed to reconsider their thoughts about things after being in a discussion where people disagree with them? Because if so, I might flounce.

[Conuly]

I never walked/rode to school because all my schools growing up were a 10-20minute drive away. I did however take the school bus. Something which all but one of my friends who have kids won't put their kids on because "school buses are dangerous."

When I was a kid we literally climbed over the seats (well, everybody else did. My sister refused to let me "until next year", and then the next year she became a bus monitor and STILL didn't let me!) and danced in the aisles and goofed off in a manner that I'm sure WAS quite unsafe.

At my nieces' schools the parents are enjoined frequently to remind their children to stay buckled up when on the bus. And from what I can see peeking in school bus windows, the kids DO stay, if not buckled, at least seated at all times. The bus is less dangerous than a car, I'm sure.

And for the record, I feel safer alone in New York City after dark than I do in my hometown. Because in New York, there are always people around. Many people seem to have a big fear of cities, but, honestly, I really don't get it.

That's my mother's attitude. She figures that if she has to scream for help, she wants somebody to at least hear her, even if they only call the cops without personally intervening.

In less dramatic situations, such as people needing to get a stroller up the stairs or elderly folks needing somebody to help them cross the street, I often find that the only thing preventing me from getting my good deed out of the way is that somebody else has done it first! It can be frustrating, let me tell you.

Is this one of those forums where people are not allowed to reconsider their thoughts about things after being in a discussion where people disagree with them? Because if so, I might flounce.

*sighs*

No, I just... I guess I'm a little trigger shy. I've been having several, um, rousing debates in article comments on various subjects this week and it's spilling over elsewhere. I realize now that maybe it's been hard for me not to get carried away in places filled with people who aren't trolling for the hell of it. I shouldn't be bothering with the trolls at all, but sometimes you just really NEED to tell people in the comment sections at Yahoo news or YouTube that they're fucking idiots.

[Esther]

In the UK it's normal for children of secondary school age onwards (eleven and up) to commute to school by themselves and that involves taking a train.

Exactly. I took the train to school every day from when I was thirteen onward - on my own. I then walked to school from the station. Considering we don't have school buses or school districts here, so a lot of kids go to school at some distance from their homes, that's what most people do. There's nothing wrong with a kid over say 10-11 years old taking public transport by themselves. It won't kill them.

[snarkbillie]

No, I just... I guess I'm a little trigger shy. I've been having several, um, rousing debates in article comments on various subjects this week and it's spilling over elsewhere. I realize now that maybe it's been hard for me not to get carried away in places filled with people who aren't trolling for the hell of it. I shouldn't be bothering with the trolls at all, but sometimes you just really NEED to tell people in the comment sections at Yahoo news or YouTube that they're fucking idiots.

This happens to me a lot too.

[holothuroidea]

Is this one of those forums where people are not allowed to reconsider their thoughts about things after being in a discussion where people disagree with them? Because if so, I might flounce.

I've thought the same thing here at times. It is difficult for people on both sides of an issue to not get defensive. I've found though that if you just say, "thanks for the reality check, I hadn't considered that angle" most people get the point.

Please don't flounce, I like your posts.

[snarkbillie]

I've thought the same thing here at times. It is difficult for people on both sides of an issue to not get defensive. I've found though that if you just say, "thanks for the reality check, I hadn't considered that angle" most people get the point.

Please don't flounce, I like your posts.

I was just having a frustrating morning. I think I can see where I could have communicated better. It's hard to tell the difference between an evolving opinion and goalpost shifting sometimes. :lol:

[notsocommon]

To be clear, most (or all, if you discount those who post just to be contrary) of us who comment over at FRK agree with "it depends on your own kid and your own situation". If your kid really can't handle this or that sort of freedom* then you don't let them do it, although if you can take babysteps to get them there that's all right. (Like, you don't just one day leave your kid home for six hours. You start off with ten minutes while you're in the garden, that sort of thing.) Or if there's some special situation (say, you know that there's an escaped murderer on the loose, or you happen to live in a warzone, or whatever the situation is) that makes your life more dangerous, well, nobody wants you ignoring your own best judgment.

* It's worth mentioning that "Free range" is often used to mean "unsupervised". Which is generally a big part of it, but I think it's really about self-sufficiency. Other issues that might come up are "I expect my kid to take off her own jacket, but every time she goes to preschool somebody does it for her, and robs her of her ability to take care of herself" or "My kid is learning how to use a real knife at the real stove at home, so it's really annoying that his school has given him the idea that he must never use anything sharp ever", that sort of thing. (The jacket thing happened to me in real life, but it was a smock at the children's museum. I wanted to yell at people "Stop helping her! It's not helping!")

In my own life, I had to unbrainwash the nieces after they learned about "strangers" at school. To wit, they were taught to never, ever talk to strangers and, if they should get lost, to find a policeman to help them. *headdesk*

In reality, we don't care a damn whether they talk to strangers so long as they don't walk off with them, and in some situations (like if they get lost!) we WANT them to talk to strangers, if only to ask said stranger to call the nearest family member! As far as "finding a policeman" goes, if I should get separated from either child on the train or wherever, the very LAST thing I want her to do is wander hither and yon looking for a cop. It took two months to re-teach them that the appropriate thing to do, when lost, is make sure you're in a safe spot (move out of the street, dears!) and then wait until whomever you're with comes back to fetch you. Sure they can talk to the cops (who are perforce strangers) but they shouldn't go looking for a cop to talk to. "But I can't wait by myself!" Because something bad is going to happen if you stand still for five minutes until I return? "But the teacher said...!"

Two. Months. :roll: If they're walking around the place, how the hell am I ever going to find them? I have a hard enough time navigating as it is!

I've taught my daughter to find mommy with a child to help her, or if we are in the store, mall or whatever, find an employee. The 'find a cop' thought is OK, but there is never one around if you need one

[2xx1xy1JD]

The reason why parents who do this are villified is that children die when they are left inside of cars: temperatures inside, even with the windows cracked, can get 15 or more degress hotter. What feels like moderately hot inside quickly gets to be life-threatening temperatures. It happens a couple of times each summer around where I live. Every one of these deaths is preventable.

What I don't like about this blog is this attitude, the "Just because I did something dangerous/my kid did something dangerous and lived means that it is NEVER dangerous, at all."

These deaths are tragic - but they don't happen to 6 yr olds. Typically, it involves babies or toddlers who fall asleep, the parent forgets that the child is in the car, and the child has no way of leaving the car. An awake 6 yr old can open a car door.

[Esther]

These deaths are tragic - but they don't happen to 6 yr olds. Typically, it involves babies or toddlers who fall asleep, the parent forgets that the child is in the car, and the child has no way of leaving the car. An awake 6 yr old can open a car door.

Exactly. Don't leave a tiny baby in the car alone - but any kid over 5 or 6 should be able to open a car door, or if they're waiting, to roll down a window if they're hot.

[fakepigtails73]

Just an excuse for laziness? Hardly.

Topics at Free Range Kids have included:

The top five dangers to children according to statistics vs. the top five parental fears about danger to children: these lists do not match in any way, and parents need to educate themselves about the actual dangers.

What drowning looks like and how to prevent it.

Car seat installation dos and don'ts.

Actual crime rates vs. perceived crime rates and how to come down off the paranoia knife-edge.

How to raise children who have the ability to plan their own afternoon and the mental skills needed to assess potential danger.

What self-help and emergency response skills children can and should be taught by their parents.

Lenore Skenazy was branded the World's Worst Mom for sending her son off with a subway map and a sandwich at the same age that kids in her own generation were sent off with a subway map and a sandwich, in a decade when crime rates were higher than they are today. She is shining a light on national paranoia and commercial and meda abetment of same.

Agree with you Jenny.

If I had a kid and raised him the same way that my Dad did with me, boy would the DPJ (our CPS) get here fast!!

All the time by myself did teach me to be resourceful.

[B5SnowDog]

I'm an engineer and technically it would be easy to add this technology to car seats or cars. It's just that there's this perception that only an awful parent would forget their child in a car and a lot of folks don't want to admit that given the right circumstances it could happen to them.

I forget which car company it was, but I remember seeing a commercial for a new car that had a heartbeat detector. It was advertised as a safety feature to tell you if someone was hiding in your car waiting to kill you but I think it would be far more useful as a "baby left in car" detector.

[B5SnowDog]

No, I just... I guess I'm a little trigger shy. I've been having several, um, rousing debates in article comments on various subjects this week and it's spilling over elsewhere. I realize now that maybe it's been hard for me not to get carried away in places filled with people who aren't trolling for the hell of it. I shouldn't be bothering with the trolls at all, but sometimes you just really NEED to tell people in the comment sections at Yahoo news or YouTube that they're fucking idiots.

I once stayed up way too late trying to explain to a troll why evolution doesn't defy the second law of thermodynamics.

Have you seen this comic?

[ilovetchotchkes]

I once stayed up way too late trying to explain to a troll why evolution doesn't defy the second law of thermodynamics.

Have you seen this comic?

Dude, it happens to the best of us!! I once spent 6 hours in a RAEG over the fact that a friend of a friend on facebook that I had friended as making homophobic and transphobic remarks and responding with the most ridiculous answers. "if they were meant to be a girl, why didnt' G-d make them a girl" shit like that.

My husband came in after work, looks at me mildly and says "honey, delete the bastard, he's upsetting you , you dont' know him "IRL", he's a friend of a friend from high school... i don't understand why you're letting him get to you. Yes he's saying some terrifically hateful things that would make my blood boil should someone I was actually related to say them, but don't let someone else's bigotry get to you hon."

And i just looked up at him and said "oh. Yeah. Didn't think of that."

One of his best friends from high school is trans, and bi. and he's bi, so he's personally invested in such a topic, however, random strangers, he's like "feh they don't deserve your time"

[valsa]

I never walked/rode to school because all my schools growing up were a 10-20minute drive away. I did however take the school bus. Something which all but one of my friends who have kids won't put their kids on because "school buses are dangerous."

Starting in 4th grade I refused to ride the school bus due to weekly fights that broke out, many of which included weapons and many-on-one violence (and this was elementary school (3rd to 6th grade))

[ElphabaGalinda]

Exactly. I took the train to school every day from when I was thirteen onward - on my own. I then walked to school from the station. Considering we don't have school buses or school districts here, so a lot of kids go to school at some distance from their homes, that's what most people do. There's nothing wrong with a kid over say 10-11 years old taking public transport by themselves. It won't kill them.

That's normal here in Canada for kids to take public transit themselves when they start middle school (so 11-12). There are no school buses for that age, at least around here, so that's the only way many kids can get to school. My sister's currently in middle school, and her and about 60% of her classmates all take the public bus home. My mom's rule is if it's somewhere other than school (e.g., the mall, downtown), kids need to be high school age (14), to go with friends only. But it's common to be allowed to take the subway to a friends house at like 11. I have no idea how the majority of kids here could go to school if they weren't allowed to take public transit.

[Conuly]

See, now I feel like I flounced! But no, I just went to the bookstore. AND GOT AN ADVANCE READER COPY OF THE NEXT BOOK IN THE BIRCHBARK HOUSE SERIES, WHICH IS JUST AWESOME! MY NIECES AND I LOVED THE FIRST BOOK SOOOOOOO MUCH!

*coughs*

So, yeah, *I* am in a better mood now. Yes, I've seen the XKCD comic, and it's SO true, and yes it can be hard to tell the difference between shifting the goalposts and changing your viewpoint.

I've taught my daughter to find mommy with a child to help her, or if we are in the store, mall or whatever, find an employee. The 'find a cop' thought is OK, but there is never one around if you need one

Yes, that's largely what the nieces know. "Find a grown-up with a child or a store employee if you really NEED help", but honestly, I'd really rather they stay put. They can talk to whomever they choose so long as they don't move from where they are. Sure, they MIGHT be talking to the local murderer, but if they stay put in whatever public place they are it's unlikely the guy will kill them then and there. (And if they would kill them in plain sight of witnesses, well, I'm not sure refusing to talk to them would've helped much.)

[BelieveinScience]

Starting in 4th grade I refused to ride the school bus due to weekly fights that broke out, many of which included weapons and many-on-one violence (and this was elementary school (3rd to 6th grade))

That never happened on any of the buses I rode just name calling and things like the "penis" game. But I know in my friends' cases they say the buses will flip over and then the kids will fall off of the seats and get stuck under them then die.

[B5SnowDog]

My husband came in after work, looks at me mildly and says "honey, delete the bastard, he's upsetting you , you dont' know him "IRL", he's a friend of a friend from high school... i don't understand why you're letting him get to you. Yes he's saying some terrifically hateful things that would make my blood boil should someone I was actually related to say them, but don't let someone else's bigotry get to you hon."

And i just looked up at him and said "oh. Yeah. Didn't think of that."

One of his best friends from high school is trans, and bi. and he's bi, so he's personally invested in such a topic, however, random strangers, he's like "feh they don't deserve your time"

Your husband rocks.

[ElphabaGalinda]

That never happened on any of the buses I rode just name calling and things like the "penis" game. But I know in my friends' cases they say the buses will flip over and then the kids will fall off of the seats and get stuck under them then die.

That's never happened on any of the many school buses I rode in elementary school either. I think that's one of those things that if your kids are telling you this is happening, you should address the issue with the school, and allow your child to no longer ride the bus. But it's not something you should assume will happen right off the bat, although it is a more logical fear than the bus flipping over and the children dying. Either way, I think having a logical reason, or evidence of things actually happening, is important.

[urban teacher]

Having read Free Range kids book, I like the fact the movement is about building community for children. As a childless person, I want to live in a world where I can smile at a toddler and not have a parent glare at me, where I can offer to hold a fussy baby on an airplane and not worry that I'll be mistaken for a pervert and most of all a community where I can say to a kid misbehaving in public, "stop!" like I did Friday night when 2 preteens were wrestling at a concert and almost knocked over an older woman.

[darareaksmey]

My kids are teens, and I still feel very uncomfortable if I'm in a situation where they can't reach me by phone. I think it's foolhardy just to do it and leave the kids to figure out stuff on their own, when they truly might need to speak to you. At the very, very least, I want to be in a position where my daughter or son can call me just to chat just because they feel like it and not because they need my sage advice on some matter of earthshaking importance. The lines of communication should always be open, literally as well as figuratively.

[treemom]

Here are a list of things I have allowed my son to do or have done tha you may judge me for:

He is allowed to ride his bike anywhere except to cross the 6 lane street near our house. But since he is twelve that will probably be going away soon.

Make him wear a bike helmet.

Left him in a hotel room when he was 7 and we were in china to have a drink with my husband at the bar in the lobby.

Make him wear his life jacket when he takes his kayak out.

Left him in a hotel room I Cairo two different times so we could go smoke sheesha in the lobby downstairs.

Let him roam free on 6 different cruises.

Sit in the car when I run into the store.

Stay home by himself.

Go down to the lobby And get breakfast at a hotel in Rome, and places all over the world.

Swim in the Nile even though my tour book said it was a bad idea.

Eat whatever is in the house.

Fly to Washington, dc by himself.

Sit in a row away from his father and I both when we fly from San Francisco to Beijing and when we flew from Newark to Rome.

No one is allowed to swim in our pool without their parents there (we had a near drowning 4 years ago of my best friends daughter.)

He can't swim unless us or his grandparents are out there. But I will go run inside for something OT to use the restroom if he stays in the shallow end (he is a good swimmer, actually swims a mile every day, but why risk it)

But I will say this, my son is well traveled, has lots of experience in hotels and how to get us, he is well behaved, exceptionally. He understands that bad behavior like overeating, over snacking, lying, running or pressing all the buttons in an elevator, those things will make him loose the opportunities he has.

He will be 12 in two weeks and just a week and a half after than will be climbing kilimajaro with us. A mountain that can be dangerous. It is a balance, being safe but also encouraging our children to develop the skills you need as an adult. I know grown women who are scared to go downtown to the courthouse for jury duty without their husbands. I want more for my kid. If you think I am unsafe, oh well. That is your view. If you think I am overproetective, same thing. Of all the things in the world, this is the aspect of my parenting I feel we are perfect at for our kid in our family.