New Low in Parenting Trends: Free Range Kids

[dawbs]

*snip*

There's this awesome picture I've seen of a toddler - no more than two years old - in some sort of rain forest culture where infants are encourages to do this sort of thing, using a machete to cut a piece of fruit.

http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/cultures/t ... _tools.htm

and

http://jerryredfern.photoshelter.com/im ... dqUozGvbZ8

:)

[treemom]

I am not quoting you, and there's a reason I didn't quote you in my post. I was just triggered by something you said. I know you didn't mean it in that way, and that's why I didn't quote you.

People here have posted extremes of helicopter parenting and I wanted to share what I know of the extreme on the other end of the spectrum (which was technically not neglectful, but pretty damn close).

I do tend to be more on the free-range side of things, but probably with more reservations than most. I believe in following a child's cues for what they are and are not ready/wanting to do. I didn't read the article you linked to but I bookmarked it and I'll probably get around to it when my kids are asleep.

Actually in most states leaving your 8 year old home alone from the time they get home from school until sometime the next day is in fact neglect.

[dawbs]

Whoa, I never said it was SAFE. No where in the world is 100% safe from anything, period. I simply said there was a SAFE ADULT, as in someone who is somewhat accountable, rather than a complete stranger on 8th Avenue. I've seen the MTA employees help kids find their transfers (even to the point of escorting them to said trains and buses) on numerous occasions, though I can't say I've seen that level of helpfulness when adults are involved.

And that woman could've gotten raped on the street, in her home, in her car, on a bus... Sorry, being raped sucks (ask how I know) but it's not 100% avoidable in any given situation (the super could come in my door and rape me this very second and there's not shit I could do other than fight back and call the cops--assuming I got to the phone in time) which is a small part of the reason that it's so horrible and traumatic. I'm pretty sure FJ's had this discussion many a time.

As I said before, you can NEVER assume you are completely safe, no matter where you go, who goes with you, whose job it is to protect you, etc.

On the other hand, transit employees are apparently good to have on your side...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false

[Pearl]

Heh, this topic touches close to my heart. I am doing my best *not* to be a helicopter parent and am having a hard time of it. I do have the kids do housework and am going to teach my 10 year old how to cook, but when it comes to them being somewhere by themselves...I struggle.

I was inordinately proud of myself that I let my kids stay in the child portion of the library not in direct eyesight. I even let them stay there when I went across the building to the restroom. Alas, I didn't let them stay when I went to another floor. I'm still working on it.

I think, like others have said, that there is a balance between being too restrictive and too free range. I think in the middle might be good because kids will learn balance and boundaries...I'm not an expert though.

[holothuroidea]

Actually in most states leaving your 8 year old home alone from the time they get home from school until sometime the next day is in fact neglect.

Heh. I actually did complain to one of my teachers when I was tired of the way I was being left to fend for myself all the time (also coupled with emotional and physical abuse from an alcoholic parent when she was around). They set me up an interview with a social worker who deemed my conditions "adequate." They didn't do anything. I was hoping that there would be some assistance for my mother, or an after school mentoring program they could put me in, but I guess there wasn't.

This was Minnesota in the 90's.

[Olivia]

I think my parents were overprotective, but compared to the helicopter parenting now, they weren't bad at all. I lean towards attachment parenting and then a free range approach as it becomes age appropriate. I figure, I'M the one who will know my children best. But my husband and I joke that someone is going to call CPS on us for letting our kids walk 4 blocks to our local playground or bike the 1/2 mile to school by themselves when WE know they're ready.

Having just spent a weekend with teenagers who don't know whether lemonade goes in the fridge or the freezer, still need to be reminded about personal hygiene, and just generally lack common sense, I'm quite sure that non-extreme free range parenting is a much, much better deal for the kids in the long run (teenagers, especially, I think of as being in training to be independent, so it's weird when people baby teens).

If they aren't ready for something, then obviously, don't have them do it (and I haven't seen anyone advise otherwise on the free range parenting site), but sometimes, that also means parents should take the cue to teach their kids. 6-year-old can't be trusted to play with friends on their block unsupervised? 11-year-old lacks the common sense to walk to school by themselves? Afraid to let your 14-year-old use the stove when you're away from home? To me, that means a parent should be teaching them, helping them grow into independent people.

[holothuroidea]

*snip* If they aren't ready for something, then obviously, don't have them do it (and I haven't seen anyone advise otherwise on the free range parenting site), but sometimes, that also means parents should take the cue to teach their kids. 6-year-old can't be trusted to play with friends on their block unsupervised? 11-year-old lacks the common sense to walk to school by themselves? Afraid to let your 14-year-old use the stove when you're away from home? To me, that means a parent should be teaching them, helping them grow into independent people.

Honestly if my child didn't send some cues that she was ready for those things at or before those ages I would be very concerned about addressing developmental delays.

:shock:

I would totally put lemonade in the freezer, though. Tasty treat!! (In an ice tray, they were going to put it in an ice tray right? With toothpicks?)

[lilith]

I tend towards letting my daughter be pretty independent, but my sons just don't seem ready for responsibilities she had at a younger age. I don't know if it's gender, or birth order (she's the oldest) or just innate character (she has always been a bit obsessed by and comforted by rules and boundaries, and she take them very seriously). I ink most parents individually assess what their kids are capable of.

Someone in Sydney had the Department of Community Services (child protection agency) called on them earlier this year because they were allowing their 7 year old to walk to the local shops alone. The child wasn't removed, but the agency got involved with the family. There was another case of a 9 year old taking a bus to music lessons alone. The police saw her waiting at a bus stop, followed the bus, then called DOCS when she got off. These are both activities I would feel fine about my 8 year old daughter doing, especially since she has a phone and can call me if anything goes wrong, but since society seems to have deemed them unacceptable, she doesn't have the opportunity. She does walk to school alone when she has to go early for band, and she enjoys it a lot. Other mornings I walk her cause I would be walking her brothers (5 and 7) anyway.

I find it sad that our society has become so paranoid and so unwilling to trust a parents own judgement about what their children are capable of.

[treemom]

Heh. I actually did complain to one of my teachers when I was tired of the way I was being left to fend for myself all the time (also coupled with emotional and physical abuse from an alcoholic parent when she was around). They set me up an interview with a social worker who deemed my conditions "adequate." They didn't do anything. I was hoping that there would be some assistance for my mother, or an after school mentoring program they could put me in, but I guess there wasn't.

This was Minnesota in the 90's.

That sounds like you were interviewed by an overworked social worker, because even in Minnesota in the 90's there would have been assistance for your mother. We have lots of social workers, mandatory reporters and people like me, who spent time in the CPS system as a kid.

What you experienced is neglect by any defintition even if it wasn't acted on.

[Conuly]

Someone in Sydney had the Department of Community Services (child protection agency) called on them earlier this year because they were allowing their 7 year old to walk to the local shops alone. The child wasn't removed, but the agency got involved with the family. There was another case of a 9 year old taking a bus to music lessons alone. The police saw her waiting at a bus stop, followed the bus, then called DOCS when she got off. These are both activities I would feel fine about my 8 year old daughter doing, especially since she has a phone and can call me if anything goes wrong, but since society seems to have deemed them unacceptable, she doesn't have the opportunity. She does walk to school alone when she has to go early for band, and she enjoys it a lot. Other mornings I walk her cause I would be walking her brothers (5 and 7) anyway.

I don't know what the law is in Australia, but in the NY they have to check out every complaint, even if they're ridiculous.

I know a woman who managed to snag a transfer from her zoned public school for bullying and for the school not following her child's IEP, something which is not so easy to do. When she was still in that school, and making complaints to the DoE all the time, every two months the principal filed a complaint against her with ACS and ACS had to check it out even though it was clearly the principal making trouble. I might not believe that story from just this one woman... except I know another woman in the same situation, with the same principal. And even though the principal clearly has a history of what is, at best, overzealous reporting, ACS has to check it out every time.

Every report means a minimum of three visits in two months.

That sounds like you were interviewed by an overworked social worker, because even in Minnesota in the 90's there would have been assistance for your mother. We have lots of social workers, mandatory reporters and people like me, who spent time in the CPS system as a kid.

Well, yeah. They're pretty much ALL overworked. And it doesn't help when people call for frivolous reasons (see the principal above) or without carefully considering the situation.

I don't want to tell anybody what to do about any particular situation. Obviously, if you think a child is in danger, you should take whatever steps you feel are necessary. However, it is possible to disagree with another person's parenting choices without that person actually being abusive or neglectful. If the risk of harm is very low, or if it seems very unlikely to ever happen again, then the kid is probably fine.

And this is something that comes up over at FRK, that sometimes people call the police or child services in lieu of actually thinking. A 10 year old kid walking alone to soccer, 5 minutes from his house, and the neighbors call the cops because "he might be lost". Why not just poke your head out the door and ask if his mom knows where he is? (As observed on that very blog, it must be a VERY safe neighborhood if two cops can be dispatched to locate and retrieve a ten year old walking to soccer practice!) A two year old kid escapes the house for the first time ever, and the parents catch him within two minutes, and the neighbors call ACS "just in case". Why not go over and suggest a better lock for the door? Or just mind your own business. If the kid is often getting out that might be a problem, but it's safe to say most people are taken by surprise the very first time their child runs naked down the block!

There are definitely situations where ACS needs to be called. I've called ACS on other people in the past, not that it did much good, and there are a few cases where, in retrospect, I wish I'd done so. I would absolutely call if I knew an 8 year old kid was being left home alone all night long.

But sometimes people call when, even if it IS a bad choice on the parents' part, calling in the authorities is neither useful nor helpful. And the end result is that the various caseworkers are spread a lot thinner than they're supposed to be, and so can't give adequate attention to their work. This is bad on all counts. It means some children who are just fine are wrongfully removed from their homes, and, perhaps more commonly, it means that some children who are really being abused are NOT removed.

[treemom]

Leaving your child alone overnight when they are eight is neglect.

[holothuroidea]

Leaving your child alone overnight when they are eight is neglect.

It sure felt like neglect, no matter what that social worker said.

And thank you for the validation, it actually means a lot.

[treemom]

It sure felt like neglect, no matter what that social worker said.

And thank you for the validation, it actually means a lot.

That is the reason I was insisting on it. Because I wanted you to know that I think it was the wrong, bad thing to do.

For the record here are some loose definitions. I definelty think you were left unsupervised.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/userma ... glectb.cfm

Back to me for just a wee second, I didn't mention that my retired inlaws live across the street, so we have been a lot more comfortable in having a latchkey kid because he is in theory only, in fact he goes over to his grandparents for a snack and homework when he gets off the bus.

And then in the hotel situation, we rehearsed and discussed since he was a wee boy what to do Ina fire in a hotel. He is under strict instructions not to open the door if it isn't one of us and he also knows exactly where we will be in the lobby. So my son goes unsupervised and I can see how many people would the j we go to far. But he is very responsible and has always proven himself to act impeccably. He might be a smart ass to me, but he really is a great kid.