Checkmate, Pro-Choicers

[Terrie]

All I can think is "This girl knows NOTHING about chess."

[ilovetchotchkes]

In the small amount of research I've done on why abortion was outlawed in the 1800's, I've found two reasons. A- because it kept women from "getting away with things" and B- because women were dying from surgical abortions.

(and that's just surgical abortions. Adds for substances that would "restore the blocked menses" were common for long after surgical abortions became illegal.)

Yeah, if it was as dangerous now as it was back then, i'd probably be "pro life" too in the sense that its NOT worth risking your life. But hell, IF that were the case i'd be BUSTING MY BUTT getting secular assistance for single moms AND pregnancy assistance and such for people who decided to give the kids up for adoption. Because quite honestly, i care more about the mother than the potential baby at ANY point.

However currently, surgical abortions are thankfully SAFE, and even more thankfully LEGAL!!!!!! So i have nothing against them. I think that the current climate in this country is HORRIBLE- if birth control and sex ed were more accessible and better taught, abortions would be not as common thus ending the damn debate. Because personally, i think its better to prevent the pregnancy in the first place simply because going through a decision like that is difficult even for the most ardent pro-choice woman. And she's gonna get judged which is hateful. Her body, her decision.

[Minerva]

Even if Susan B Anthony was "pro life". Um, she lived in a time where women couldn't even VOTE. Socially... it was a completely different WORLD.

Generally NO WOMEN worked outside the home. Really historically (and i am NOT saying its right), until WWII, women generally didn't work outside the home! so someone getting an abortion, culturally was a completely different situation than it is now. When women have SO MUCH more freedom, so many more options. Hell, planned parenthood didn't exist. AND any kind of surgery back then was extremely dangerous.

I guess what i'm trying to say in a really cumbersome way : is our culture has changed SO MUCH in the last 100 years, that the fact that Susan B Anthony was "a feminist and Pro life" is completely irrelevant to the current arguments surrounding women's choices, birth control and bodily autonomy today.

This. If you put a feminist from 100 years ago in a room with a 21st century feminist, they'd find a lot of each other's positions abhorrent. A couple months ago, I wrote a review of a book on the fight for women's suffrage and the beginnings of what we now know as liberal feminism. Couldn't believe how much I disagreed with a lot of their arguments. (But we had to start somewhere, didn't we?)

[ladypuglover]

If it wasn't for the comments on the site, I would cry. Thankfully it looks like she is the only one there that thinks like this.

[Tator Tot Tubby]

She's getting lots of hate on tumblr, at least in my circle. Also, there's the Checkmate, Anti-Choicers tumblr too

http://checkmateantichoicers.tumblr.com/

[ilovetchotchkes]

This. If you put a feminist from 100 years ago in a room with a 21st century feminist, they'd find a lot of each other's positions abhorrent. A couple months ago, I wrote a review of a book on the fight for women's suffrage and the beginnings of what we now know as liberal feminism. Couldn't believe how much I disagreed with a lot of their arguments. (But we had to start somewhere, didn't we?)

Just remember, the book "The Awakening" published in 1899 was banned because the main character went off, had an affair and left her husband. There's no actual SEX in the book.

Today, we have 50 shades of grey. Which is on the #$OI&*#%ing best seller list.

[MonkeyMomma]

http://checkmateprochoicers.tumblr.com/aboutme

(Please keep all submissions, comments, and reblogs kind and Christ-like. Even though many girls who have abortions may be sluts, this blog is not about calling them sluts. It is about stopping the new Holocaust!)

Oh, how very Christ-like!

[valsa]

Yeah, if it was as dangerous now as it was back then, i'd probably be "pro life" too in the sense that its NOT worth risking your life.

The problem is that pregnancy and childbirth were a lot more dangerous back then too, so the risk still might have evened out in the end.

Because personally, i think its better to prevent the pregnancy in the first place simply because going through a decision like that is difficult even for the most ardent pro-choice woman.

Actually, I think this mindset needs to change too. I understand where the motivation comes from (to humanize women who get abortions, in an effort to combat the right's assertions that women who "murder their babies" are cruel and heartless) but the fact of the matter is that not all women find it difficult to choose abortion- and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm very strongly pro-choice and I know that if I got pregnant right now, I would get an abortion. That is not a difficult decision at all. Certainly no more than getting my appendix or tonsils removed would be, if I felt the need. And I'm not alone in that.

[tabitha2]

Generally NO WOMEN worked outside the home

What History are you reading? You sound like one of those VF revisionest history goof balls-Factory girls,servants, shop girls,teachers,nurses,farm labor...Poor families regularly sent daughters out to get rid of a mouth to feed and bring in more money and women got abortions fairly often-they were advertised in the flippin newspaper and the term female Doctor meant abortionist to most people.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/ ... ndex1.html

[ilovetchotchkes]

What History are you reading? You sound like one of those VF revisionest history goof balls-Factory girls,servants, shop girls,teachers,nurses,farm labor...Poor families regularly sent daughters out to get rid of a mouth to feed and bring in more money and women got abortions fairly often-they were advertised in the flippin newspaper and the term female Doctor meant abortionist to most people.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/ ... ndex1.html

O_o

no, dude, i'm totally not. I was thinking in general terms and especially after a woman was married. From my understanding of history, if you were married, you generally didn't work outside the home. What you seem to be referring to is unmarried young women. (correct me if I'm wrong) ~ That's why from what I have read, WWII was important in basically spurning the feminist movement of the 60's because women didnt' want to go back to being housewives anymore.

Valsa- I'm just going on what friends have told me. Good friends of mine who have had an abortion said it was a VERY difficult decision to make even though the knew it was 100% the right choice and one of the best decisions they've ever made for themselves because they knew if their families found out they'd get judged. Maybe I"m just projecting a bit from what I've been told. Albiet, yes its anecdotal.

[tabitha2]

Sorry then I assumed you were meaning, well, NO WOMEN because you strongly emphasized that ;)

[valsa]

Valsa- I'm just going on what friends have told me. Good friends of mine who have had an abortion said it was a VERY difficult decision to make even though the knew it was 100% the right choice and one of the best decisions they've ever made for themselves because they knew if their families found out they'd get judged. Maybe I"m just projecting a bit from what I've been told. Albiet, yes its anecdotal.

Just because some (or even many) women find choosing abortion to be a difficult decision doesn't mean all women do. I think repeating the message that "all women find abortion a difficult decision" just supports an undercurrent of "and if you don't, something is wrong with you".

[ilovetchotchkes]

Just because some (or even many) women find choosing abortion to be a difficult decision doesn't mean all women do. I think repeating the message that "all women find abortion a difficult decision" just supports an undercurrent of "and if you don't, something is wrong with you".

FWIW, i don't think that at all. Especially as, honestly its not like its infanticide - its not actually a baby. It has the potential to become such, but i'm sure i had the potential at some point to become a nuclear physicist.

Then again, i'm one of those individuals where a trip to the grocery store is fraught with decisions that any normal person would roll their eyes at. Hai anxiety? i has you. :oops:

[ilovetchotchkes]

Sorry then I assumed you were meaning, well, NO WOMEN because you strongly emphasized that ;)

My use of caps sometimes gets overlooked, I swear i need an editor.

[valsa]

FWIW, i don't think that at all. Especially as, honestly its not like its infanticide - its not actually a baby. It has the potential to become such, but i'm sure i had the potential at some point to become a nuclear physicist.

Then again, i'm one of those individuals where a trip to the grocery store is fraught with decisions that any normal person would roll their eyes at. Hai anxiety? i has you. :oops:

I know you don't think that but the sentiment gets repeated so often by the pro-choice side that we often forget the implications it creates.

[tabitha2]

How about most women then.Most women have family, religion, friends and/or money issues/pressures to consider as well as the father of the child to consider and don't want to alienate or hurt any of them.I agree you have to do what is best for you but that is much emotional trauma to process if you know your parents won't speak to again,your friends disapprove, you are told you are sinning and you significant other wants a baby and you really don't have the money.

[luckystone]

Ok, this one has GOT to be satire!

I assume that about the whole site...there isn't even anything good on there!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Even married women worked prior to WWII, although much of the work was home-based. In poorer families, it was a necessity. The idea of having housewives with leisure time during the day came to the masses with post-war prosperity.

Immigrant families often did piecework sewing from home.

It was common for women to help run the family store.

On farms, everyone pitched in to help.

Women who were abandoned by husbands or who had alcoholic husbands had no choice but to work. Ever read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn? I know my great-grandmother did sewing in a factory.

[tabitha2]

I think many did though once they became pregnant that really was the end of their working lives ;One of the early 20th century first ladies worked as a kindergarten teacher after marriage until she became pregnant with her first.

[valsa]

How about most women then.Most women have family, religion, friends and/or money issues/pressures to consider as well as the father of the child to consider and don't want to alienate or hurt any of them.I agree you have to do what is best for you but that is much emotional trauma to process if you know your parents won't speak to again,your friends disapprove, you are told you are sinning and you significant other wants a baby and you really don't have the money.

I would go with "many" but not "most". There are a lot of women and even whole websites devoted to the stories of women who didn't find the decision difficult. And many women have pro-choice families and significant others (or SOs who aren't even in the picture) and don't have strong religious beliefs about abortion one way or the other.

I think some women who didn't find choosing abortion difficult say they did just because that's what society expects of them. It's sort of the flip side to (or maybe an extention of) the reaction of women who don't feel a bond with their children after birth or suffer from PPD. Society expects women to be bonded and happy about the birth of their child and thus many women feel they can't admit to feeling otherwise.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I would go with "many" but not "most". There are a lot of women and even whole websites devoted to the stories of women who didn't find the decision difficult. And many women have pro-choice families and significant others (or SOs who aren't even in the picture) and don't have strong religious beliefs about abortion one way or the other.

I think some women who didn't find choosing abortion difficult say they did just because that's what society expects of them. It's sort of the flip side to (or maybe an extention of) the reaction of women who don't feel a bond with their children after birth or suffer from PPD. Society expects women to be bonded and happy about the birth of their child and thus many women feel they can't admit to feeling otherwise.

My close friend who had an abortion found it an easy decision, had a pro-choice SO and family, and had me who is very pro choice. It was an easy decision, and she felt relieved and happy afterwards. But she once told me she felt she was supposed to feel worse about it or find it more difficult, because that's what was epected of her.

No one should be made to feel like their feelings are wrong.

[ilovetchotchkes]

My close friend who had an abortion found it an easy decision, had a pro-choice SO and family, and had me who is very pro choice. It was an easy decision, and she felt relieved and happy afterwards. But she once told me she felt she was supposed to feel worse about it or find it more difficult, because that's what was epected of her.

No one should be made to feel like their feelings are wrong.

I just get incredibly resentful at the pro-lifers who like to use words like "murder" and shit like that, implying that people are well, "murdering babies" and since its a not difficult decision for some, that they're like cold blooded or something, like, nothing pisses me off more than when I hear one of my pro-life relatives scream about that. I've bit my tongue SO HARD in a lot of family situations, i've damn near drawn blood.

FETUS /= BABY.

I've been pregnant twice, I have a 2 year old and another on the way and there is NO WAY I think that pregnancy should be done on anything but a 100% volunteer basis. No way, nuh'uh. Its better to not get pregnant or have an abortion if you really don't like, or don't want kids period, than have them just because you're "supposed" to. *coughj'chellecough*

[SomewhatFundy]

"just get incredibly resentful at the pro-lifers who like to use words like "murder" and shit like that, implying that people are well, "murdering babies" and since its a not difficult decision for some, that they're like cold blooded or something, like, nothing pisses me off more than when I hear one of my pro-life relatives scream about that."

Make sure you let them know that if they have EVER been angry at ANYONE, God thinks they are a murderer too.

1 John 3:15 (NKJV) Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

I would be a little more concerned if God thought I was a murderer than if some overzealous pro-lifer thought I was a murderer. Just saying.

[ilovetchotchkes]

"just get incredibly resentful at the pro-lifers who like to use words like "murder" and shit like that, implying that people are well, "murdering babies" and since its a not difficult decision for some, that they're like cold blooded or something, like, nothing pisses me off more than when I hear one of my pro-life relatives scream about that."

Make sure you let them know that if they have EVER been angry at ANYONE, God thinks they are a murderer too.

1 John 3:15 (NKJV) Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

I would be a little more concerned if God thought I was a murderer than if some overzealous pro-lifer thought I was a murderer. Just saying.

Nice try troll. I'm a Jew. Doesn't apply as I don't think the Christian scriptures have any validity on a theological basis.Unless you mean its THEM. I still don't agree at all, but if you're calling me a murderer for getting pissed at them? yeah. wow..

[emmiedahl]

Is it a troll? Did I miss something?