Chick-fil-A Daddy/Daughter Date Nights

[Arete]

I'm from the northern US. It looks like it may have a less sexual connotation in the US than Canada, and maybe less sexual the older you are in the US. The only time it squicks me out is when christian fundementalists use it.

[AmyP]

90% of the research is done for you. There are a list of organizations to pop into google so you can visit their site. Your refusal to do so tells me that you refuse to put yourself in a position of possibly finding out you were wrong. I suggest you get over it, because accepting you were wrong is part of life.

But why should I??? I'm not the one that claims to have conclusive knowledge of Chick-fil-a's motivation! I'm not the one who claimed that these organizations, and Chick-fil-a, advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating. Why should I defend someone elses claim. If you aren't interested in defending it yourself, why should I bother? It's not my claim to defend.

[treemom]

I think this is good proof it must be a regional thing. ElphabaGalinda, CanadianHippie, and myself all think it's weird and wouldn't use that term for a get-together. We're all Canadian. I'm not sure about the Americans, but it seems like the FJ members from the Southern states use the term "date" in a more inclusive way.

Maybe. I don't know. I actually just said 'It's a date!' today and laughed afterwards. It was when I was making plans for a coworker to come over and swim at my house on Saturday.

Although I have been told I sometimes speak a little odd, even for here (since I didn't grow up in the south, I am pretty sure it isn't a Southern thing soley.

[CanadianHippie]

But why should I??? I'm not the one that claims to have conclusive knowledge of Chick-fil-a's motivation! I'm not the one who claimed that these organizations, and Chick-fil-a, advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating. Why should I defend someone elses claim. If you aren't interested in defending it yourself, why should I bother? It's not my claim to defend.

Oh, for the love of God, what do you want us to do? Show up on your door step, get on your computer and pull up the pages for you and read them out? It's not defending someone else's claim to actually read the sources they provide for you. Refusing to check their sources then complaining about it just makes you sound like a lazy, dumb, leghumping twit.

[AmyP]

Oh, for the love of God, what do you want us to do? Show up on your door step, get on your computer and pull up the pages for you and read them out? It's not defending someone else's claim to actually read the sources they provide for you. Refusing to check their sources then complaining about it just makes you sound like a lazy, dumb, leghumping twit.

ok. here's the list

Marriage & Family Legacy Fund: $994,199

Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000

National Christian Foundation: $240,000

Focus On The Family: $12,500

Eagle Forum: $5,000

Exodus International: $1,000

Family Research Council: $1,000

Fellowship of Christian Athletes - does not advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating, as far as I know

Focus on the Family- has adopted a neutral position on courtship last I checked

National Christian Foundation- never heard of them

Eagle Forum- never heard of them

Exodus International- no position on daddy/daughter dating that I know of. courtship is not thier focus.

Family Research Council- don't know

So, since you all seem to believe that THIS LIST is conclusive evidence that Chick-fil-a advocates daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating and that this is the specific motivation behind the father daughter event- back up your claim. There are three organizations that i am not familiar with. Which one of these organizations PROVES that the specific motivation of Chick-fil-a is to advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating. You are more than welcome to pull up the web page that supports your claim and show me personally, but it might be easier to post it here.

[Visionoyahweh]

Troll ALL the threads.

[holierthanyou]

I think this is good proof it must be a regional thing. ElphabaGalinda, CanadianHippie, and myself all think it's weird and wouldn't use that term for a get-together. We're all Canadian. I'm not sure about the Americans, but it seems like the FJ members from the Southern states use the term "date" in a more inclusive way.

Yep, that makes sense to me too, Lainey. I (Canadian) would also be quite weirded out if I heard any parent refer to going somewhere with one of their children as a 'date'. When I hear someone use that word, it is exclusively reserved for a couple going out somewhere together, as a couple (e.g. dinner, movie, etc).

[CanadianHippie]

ok. here's the list

Marriage & Family Legacy Fund: $994,199

Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000

National Christian Foundation: $240,000

Focus On The Family: $12,500

Eagle Forum: $5,000

Exodus International: $1,000

Family Research Council: $1,000

Fellowship of Christian Athletes - does not advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating, as far as I know

Focus on the Family- has adopted a neutral position on courtship last I checked

National Christian Foundation- never heard of them

Eagle Forum- never heard of them

Exodus International- no position on daddy/daughter dating that I know of. courtship is not thier focus.

Family Research Council- don't know

So, since you all seem to believe that THIS LIST is conclusive evidence that Chick-fil-a advocates daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating and that this is the specific motivation behind the father daughter event- back up your claim. There are three organizations that i am not familiar with. Which one of these organizations PROVES that the specific motivation of Chick-fil-a is to advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating. You are more than welcome to pull up the web page that supports your claim and show me personally, but it might be easier to post it here.

Seems a wast of time since you aren't willing to leave this thread to read anything.

[Olivia]

I am still interested that there is a decent amount of people who only use the term date when talking about romantic type dates. I make plans with my parents sometimes and say 'It's a date!' or use it for a lot of things that mean set appointment time to hang out.

I think that is an explanation of the squickyness for some people.

I agree. The word "date" doesn't have any connotation for me besides, well, a scheduled event with someone. I've also known people to rage about "date nights" between spouses.

I'd only heard of the mother/son date night at Chik-Fil-A. I think it's a nice idea, although I don't think I'd bother going to that particular event. I spent a lot of time one-on-one with my dad (and with my mom as well) growing up, and I am so glad we had that time. It's something I'll encourage with my husband and our kids.

[tropaka]

re "date" - I'm Canadian, 40, and will refer to outings with friends or relatives as "dates". Doesn't seem weird to me in that usage (but Daddy/Father, Mother/Son in the quazi romantic context, ick)

[B5SnowDog]

Or shutting on Sundays.

Or printing bible verses on their place mats etc.

In-N-Out Burger prints bible verses on their wrappers and cups.

[CanadianHippie]

In-N-Out Burger prints bible verses on their wrappers and cups.

My simple rule, if you try to minister to me in anyway, you don't get my business.

[ElphabaGalinda]

re "date" - I'm Canadian, 40, and will refer to outings with friends or relatives as "dates". Doesn't seem weird to me in that usage (but Daddy/Father, Mother/Son in the quazi romantic context, ick)

Interesting. There goes my theory that I've never heard date used IRL in a non-romantic context due to being Canadian :D Maybe it's just the particular people I encounter in real life, or maybe i'm too young or something. Maybe it's a city by city variation. I know if someone used date in a non-romantic way around here, people would be creeped out. How do you tell the difference between a friend date and a date-date? I understand how you tell with relatives :D I'm just totally curious, I love differences in dialect.

But I've thought about it, and the fact that it's Mother-Son or Father-Daughter instead of Parent-child, and the romantic connotations (to me), of the design of the father-daughter one is what bothers me, not the word date. Now that I understand that it doesn't mean what I think of as a date everywhere, that doesn't bother me, but the rest still does. I would boycott Chick-Fil-A if I was ever anywhere with one for other reasons though.

[JenniferJuniper]

ok. here's the list

Marriage & Family Legacy Fund: $994,199

Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000

National Christian Foundation: $240,000

Focus On The Family: $12,500

Eagle Forum: $5,000

Exodus International: $1,000

Family Research Council: $1,000

So, since you all seem to believe that THIS LIST is conclusive evidence that Chick-fil-a advocates daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating and that this is the specific motivation behind the father daughter event- back up your claim. There are three organizations that i am not familiar with. Which one of these organizations PROVES that the specific motivation of Chick-fil-a is to advocate daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating. You are more than welcome to pull up the web page that supports your claim and show me personally, but it might be easier to post it here.

I hope you aren't seriously expecting any of their affiliations to have an on-line section devoted to Daddy/Daughter dating. If you read through this topic again, you will note two inter-related themes. One is that most of us don't go on actual "dates" with our opposite sex children and many find the idea a little creepy, and two, that Chick-Fil-A is a known extreme fundamentalist organization, and that its promotion of Daddy/Daughter Dates complete with valentines and flowers is not profit-driven but is instead likely indicative of its yearning for the patriarchal good old days. Daddy is your first "boyfriend"; he is your protector and he will protect, lead and guide you until you are ready to be safely, and of course, purely, delivered to your lifelong headship. Just as the Duggar girls say.

Much information about Chick-Fil-A's philosophies has already been provided to you. I suggest if you are honestly interested in getting to know more that you look a little deeper into the groups they actively support. From there further inferences can be drawn. For example, did you know the Fellowship Of Christian Athletes has a sexual purity requirement?

FCA'S SEXUAL PURITY STATEMENT

God desires His children to lead pure lives of holiness. The Bible is clear in teaching on sexual sin including sex outside of marriage and homosexual acts. Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternate lifestyle acceptable to God.

While upholding God’s standard of holiness, FCA strongly affirms God’s love and redemptive power in the individual who chooses to follow Him. FCA’s desire is to encourage individuals to trust in Jesus and turn away from any impure lifestyle.

[Lainey]

Yep, that makes sense to me too, Lainey. I (Canadian) would also be quite weirded out if I heard any parent refer to going somewhere with one of their children as a 'date'. When I hear someone use that word, it is exclusively reserved for a couple going out somewhere together, as a couple (e.g. dinner, movie, etc).

Is it wrong that I'm stupid excited to learn that you're Canadian, too? :oops:

re "date" - I'm Canadian, 40, and will refer to outings with friends or relatives as "dates". Doesn't seem weird to me in that usage (but Daddy/Father, Mother/Son in the quazi romantic context, ick)

Well. How dare you go and ruin my theory! :lol: Maybe you're the exception to the rule?

My simple rule, if you try to minister to me in anyway, you don't get my business.

I have this rule also!

[AmyP]

I hope you aren't seriously expecting any of their affiliations to have an on-line section devoted to Daddy/Daughter dating. If you read through this topic again, you will note two inter-related themes. One is that most of us don't go on actual "dates" with our opposite sex children and many find the idea a little creepy, and two, that Chick-Fil-A is a known extreme fundamentalist organization, and that its promotion of Daddy/Daughter Dates complete with valentines and flowers is not profit-driven but is instead likely indicative of its yearning for the patriarchal good old days. Daddy is your first "boyfriend"; he is your protector and he will protect, lead and guide you until you are ready to be safely, and of course, purely, delivered to your lifelong headship. Just as the Duggar girls say.

Much information about Chick-Fil-A's philosophies has already been provided to you. I suggest if you are honestly interested in getting to know more that you look a little deeper into the groups they actively support. From there further inferences can be drawn. For example, did you know the Fellowship Of Christian Athletes has a sexual purity requirement?

FCA'S SEXUAL PURITY STATEMENT

God desires His children to lead pure lives of holiness. The Bible is clear in teaching on sexual sin including sex outside of marriage and homosexual acts. Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternate lifestyle acceptable to God.

While upholding God’s standard of holiness, FCA strongly affirms God’s love and redemptive power in the individual who chooses to follow Him. FCA’s desire is to encourage individuals to trust in Jesus and turn away from any impure lifestyle.

You don't have to "infer" that groups like Vision Forum think daddy should guard your heart till he gives you in marriage. They say so. Gothard does to. So yeah, I would expect that a group that advocates courtship would, in fact, promote it. I don't think patriarchy goes hand in hand with conservative christian belief. The whole patriarchy/courtship thing really is on the fringe of mainstream conservative christian belief.

I don't "infer" that FCA promotes giving your heart to daddy and patriarchy from that statement. Lots of Christian organizations think sexual activity should be confined to marriage, but that dating relationships that don't involve sex are ok. That is a far cry from giving your heart to daddy/patriarchy/courtship. I'm looking for evidence that Chick-fil-a actually supports neo-patriarchy and that this is the true motivation behind the daddy/daughter thing. I think their true motivation is to attract customers at a family oriented event and to sell sandwiches, fries, and drinks.

All this emphasis on me "doing research" is making me think that you actually can't support your claim (that Chick-fil-a advocates daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating) without making huge leaps in logic.

[holierthanyou]

Is it wrong that I'm stupid excited to learn that you're Canadian, too? :oops:

Hardly! The only mystery to me is why our American friends are not openly sharing their sadness and mourning at lamenting the fact that I am not one of them. ;)

I am also glad that we have so many great Canadians here at FJ! Long live the Canadian Sisterhood of FJ (CSFJ)!!!

[holothuroidea]

AmyP, I'm inferring from your posts that you believe that patriarchy only exists within fundamentalism, and then only within certain defined sects of fundamentalism that specifically outline it as part of their principles in writing.

Is this correct?

[tropaka]

can of worms holo...hangover of patriarchy or active patriarchy exists in every modern/culture.

but I'm not AmyP and won't defend 95 percent of this stuff.

[AmyP]

AmyP, I'm inferring from your posts that you believe that patriarchy only exists within fundamentalism, and then only within certain defined sects of fundamentalism that specifically outline it as part of their principles in writing.

Is this correct?

no i don't believe that, but this is not an argument about patriarchy in general. this is a specific claim made about ch-fil-a, that they support courtship/give heart to daddy ideas that we associate with Gothard or vision forum, but are not broadly practiced among conservative christians. and the claim that we can know their specific motivation for this event based on a donation list.

i'm trying to be pretty specific- neo-patriarchy a la Vision Forum, give your heart to daddy, no dating only daddy supervised courtships, and the specific claim that Ch-fil-a is "trying to promote daddy/daughter dating AS A REPLACEMENT FOR traditional dating".

[tropaka]

oh gosh, look, Chick fil a or whatever, is definitely marketing to the conservative Father/Daughter crap...it's not rocket science.

[holothuroidea]

can of worms holo...hangover of patriarchy or active patriarchy exists in every modern/culture.

but I'm not AmyP and won't defend 95 percent of this stuff.

That is exactly why I'm so confused about her argument. She has lumped "patriarchy" in with the purity idea many times now, and I don't think that's incorrect, but it seems kind of silly to say, "You can't prove that Chick-fil-A is patriarchal!"

The fact of the matter is that America is patriarchal and these purity ideas exist in watered down forms everywhere. I can't support anything that remotely encourages these ideas.

Chick-fil-A doesn't need to have a statement on their website about daddy/daughter dates replacing traditional dates for them to be feeding into/supporting that notion.

[holothuroidea]

no i don't believe that, but this is not an argument about patriarchy in general. this is a specific claim made about ch-fil-a, that they support courtship/give heart to daddy ideas that we associate with Gothard or vision forum, but are not broadly practiced among conservative christians. and the claim that we can know their specific motivation for this event based on a donation list.

i'm trying to be pretty specific- neo-patriarchy a la Vision Forum, give your heart to daddy, no dating only daddy supervised courtships, and the specific claim that Ch-fil-a is "trying to promote daddy/daughter dating AS A REPLACEMENT FOR traditional dating".

The "give your heart to daddy" idea is not exclusive to Gothard or VF. There are undertones of it everywhere in mainstream culture. The dances and date nights make that pretty clear.

I'm curious about your use of the term neo-patriarchy. Do you think that courtship doesn't exist in multi-generational patriarchies?

WHY are you being so specific? Why does it matter whether they explicitly promote daddy/daughter dating as a replacement for traditional dating?

[alba]

I know this is really far upthread now, but it addresses a comment I made that I feel the need to elaborate on.

I think in a lot of households a same gendered parent might spend a lot of time with that child anyhow...it was the case in our house at least.

I suppose some families might be like that, and I admit my experience wasn't "average" in this regard because I don't have brothers, so *both* parents spent a lot of time with their daughters. I was mostly trying to be facetious, though, because the first thing that comes to mind with these things is "It would leave my mom out". What bothers me about the daddy/daughter date is that it plays into gender essentialism, because it presupposes that men can find lots of things to do with their sons and women with their daughters, but not the other way around. It reinforces a world in which fathers can't take their daughters skiing because it's something they both enjoy, but have to schedule quality time with them. It makes it seem forced.

I'm not necessarily bashing the idea of scheduling time with children. If a parent works outside the home a lot and has kids with lots of extracurricular activities, it can be a good idea to ensure they regularly get one-on-one time. It's the implication that it only needs to be done with children of the opposite sex that gets me.

The imagery for both "date nights" also seems to reinforce this gender dichotomy.

On the topic of the use of the term "date", I'm Canadian, in my twenties, and I tend to think of "date" in a romantic context unless it's something like "play date".

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I think their true motivation is to attract customers at a family oriented event and to sell sandwiches, fries, and drinks.

They do that every day of the week (except god's speshal day, of course), so why would they need an "event" to do that? It's obvious to everyone here (except you) that with CFA's background, their political practices, and the organizations they support, that their hands are in the fundie pot. Now they are promoting a daddy/daughter event. 1+1=2 in my book. I don't need someone in a CFA uniform to come to my house and tell me "yup, we believe in courtship, and letting daddy guard a girl's virginity".