Chick-fil-A Daddy/Daughter Date Nights

[treemom]

But, very often, [link=http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life/2007/01/purity-balls]they are.[/link]

Actually that is a group that is doing a purity ball, I am sure they all think dad-daughter dates are cute, but there are a whole bunch who just think spending 1:1 time with your opposite gendered child is great, and calling it date is cute, but no virginity talk is mentioned.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Actually that is a group that is doing a purity ball, I am sure they all think dad-daughter dates are cute, but there are a whole bunch who just think spending 1:1 time with your opposite gendered child is great, and calling it date is cute, but no virginity talk is mentioned.

I understand and agree with what you're saying, there's nothing wrong with the principle and the use of the word "date" in and of itself. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the agenda of some of these groups, I think a lot of them are setting up a script for these things that emphasizes the daughter belonging to the father until she is married.

[treemom]

I went to liberty university, which is pretty much the same level of fundie as cfa and honestly when I was at LU it was way more funny than it is now. But no, we did not belong to our fathers. There was just as much stupid emphasis to the men on sexual purity as with the women, and we were more likely to feel like our sexuality belonged to our future spouse than our daddies.

We can disagree, but many people are saying this isn't a mainstream concept and many people are saying it is always tied to purity. And I am saying they are wrong.

[QAF_Rocks]

Except hearts and pink and flowers are considered gender normative for girls,

So you think there are no romantic implications? Specifically referring to the fathers and daughters as "sweethearts," formal dancing, corsages, the father being the daughter's "first fellow?" It seems clear to me that this is mimicking a romantic date. A father and son event would never be promoted the same way. Even forgetting the hearts and flowers, would fathers ever be encouraged to escort their sons to a dance, dress them up, treat them like princes, etc.?

I have gone out on dates with my son. I use that word. In fact when I want to plan them I say hey treeboy, we need to do a date night...think about what you might want to do. I am not pushing some purity agenda. I said hey treeboy, your sexuality is your business, here is how to be safe, and it is up to you to make decisions about with whose and when. I am hardly fringe. I am pretty damn average mainstream.

I suspect cfa is attempting to appeal to my demographic (albeit with younger kids). They might be bigots and conservative and anti-gay and a company that appealed to the viewers of the duggars, but that does not mean they are supporting incest. This concept is a pretty mainstream one . I understand why some people are squicked out, but I do not understand tha massive leaps logic is taking them.

But that's the point. These things are mainstream. They've been pushed to even creepier levels by the purity culture, but they existed long before that. Even the mainstream father-daughter events (like the one at my local recreation center) can have incestuous overtones.

[SealFan1963]

I think in a lot of households a same gendered parent might spend a lot of time with that child anyhow...it was the case in our house at least.

It's true in our house too, especially as my kids have gotten older. When my daughter was little she was so attached to her Dad and he used to take her everywhere, but now that she is a hormonal teenager he hasn't a clue what to do with her and she just thinks he is old fashioned and weird. The same is true of my son, while he will occasionally sit to watch a movie with me, he and his father have a lot more in common and I am fussy old mom who is telling him to drive safe and wear a coat.

[treemom]

So you think there are no romantic implications? Specifically referring to the fathers and daughters as "sweethearts," formal dancing, corsages, the father being the daughter's "first fellow?" It seems clear to me that this is mimicking a romantic date. A father and son event would never be promoted the same way. Even forgetting the hearts and flowers, would fathers ever be encouraged to escort their sons to a dance, dress them up, treat them like princes, etc.?

But that's the point. These things are mainstream. They've been pushed to even creepier levels by the purity culture, but they existed long before that. Even the mainstream father-daughter events (like the one at my local recreation center) can have incestuous overtones.

Perhaps the iPad version of the website is different, but none of those things are on the cfa daddy daughter site I saw.

Meh, I disagree with the idea of the incestuous overtones, but at least with your rec center I can see how people are drawing that conclusion.

However, my point was people are arguing this idea is a fringe idea and specifically relates to not dating, courtship and purity, while I think there is a tenuous link to purity, all the other things? Leaps of logic.

[AmyP]

No! Not the research! Anything but research! :o

I don't usually do research to defend someone elses point of view.

[ElphabaGalinda]

That is an antiquated term?

I've never heard date used as anything but a romantic sense. Maybe it's a regional thing? My grandma does say lunch date like with friends sometimes, which is why I always think it's antiquated, but since you're not that old, I figure it's a regional difference. The word date doesn't actually bother me. It's the hearts and red/pink in the design that bothers me, because that design looks so much like something you'd do for valentine's day. I also don't like the assumption that every girl will have a father to go with, since so many of my friends in elementary school didn't have one. I'd prefer parent-child date to be more inclusive. But that whole Valentine's day design is a little much, and I can't help but be creeped out by that aspect.

[treemom]

I've never heard date used as anything but a romantic sense. Maybe it's a regional thing? My grandma does say lunch date like with friends sometimes, which is why I always think it's antiquated, but since you're not that old, I figure it's a regional difference. The word date doesn't actually bother me. It's the hearts and red/pink in the design that bothers me, because that design looks so much like something you'd do for valentine's day. I also don't like the assumption that every girl will have a father to go with, since so many of my friends in elementary school didn't have one. I'd prefer parent-child date to be more inclusive. But that whole Valentine's day design is a little much, and I can't help but be creeped out by that aspect.

Now that argument is one I can get behind. The problem with emphasizing one specifically gendered parent and one specifically gendered child is it leaves a lot of people out.

[TXDuck]

The date nights themselves are innocuous. The heart motiff, while nauseating in its own right, isn't a problem. Honestly, if I didn't know so much about fundie purity balls and "emotional purity", it wouldn't bother me at all. See my first post about our own family "date nights". Even Chik-Fil-A could be considered harmless. No, unfortunately, thanks to fundie connotations, I think most FJers (myself included) now see these date nights at part of a larger and icky movement.

Oh and for those of us that still eat Chik-Fil-A, do what I do. Just donate twice as much to Marriage Equality groups that you spend on Chik-Fil-A.

[BelieveinScience]

Well you don't know their true motivations on this either, you only know what your perceive to be their motivations based on things that don't directly state then. I think cfa as a company is shit. I think they are bigots. But I do not think that they are suggesting replacing romantic dates by dating your opposite gendered parent. Nor is the idea of a date with your kid just full of incest.

For fucks sake this place can go batshit crazy over some hearts and the word date.

Totally agree with what you're saying Treemom. Growing up we had a lot of dad/daughter events that people went to in the area i was living in.

[genericJname]

I guess I'll join in on thinking the "date" term is fairly innocent. I make "dates" with friends or "play dates" for my son. When I was growing up, we called my outings with dad "dates" and I'm pretty sure it was called a date when I went out with just my mom.

This particular marketing seems a little over the top and romantic. I generally think that there is an incestuous tone to the father/daughter and mother/son relationships both in fundie world and in mainstream culture. (i.e. My DH will never call our hypothetical future daughter his little princess.)

[IceQueen]

Growing up my father worked all the time. He would be home for three days and then be out of the country for a week. I did not spend much time with him and we were not and still are not very close. Some of the few memories I have alone with my dad as a child are going to daddy daughter dances. If chick fil a had this when I was 8 and my mom saw it and my dad was home she would defiantly have made both of us go. As weird as it sounds we just did not spend much time together. As much as I dislike the belief's Chick fil A as I am all for a corporation reminding parents to spend time with their kids. It is not as easy for some people.

[holothuroidea]

Growing up my father worked all the time. He would be home for three days and then be out of the country for a week. I did not spend much time with him and we were not and still are not very close. Some of the few memories I have alone with my dad as a child are going to daddy daughter dances. If chick fil a had this when I was 8 and my mom saw it and my dad was home she would defiantly have made both of us go. As weird as it sounds we just did not spend much time together. As much as I dislike the belief's Chick fil A as I am all for a corporation reminding parents to spend time with their kids. It is not as easy for some people.

Well I guess if you were a boy you would have been out of luck.

[IceQueen]

Well I guess if you were a boy you would have been out of luck.

It was mentioned in the thread they have a mother son one too.

[Eclipse]

Using the term "date" makes me squeamish because date to me means spending time with someone that you are exploring the possibility of having a sexual relationship with or that you are having a sexual relationship. This includes people who are dating each other and getting to know one and other but are not having sex but will in the future if the relationship progresses (i.e. known each other longer, fell in long, got married, moved in together, got drunk enough one night, etc.) The relationship between children and parents should never fall into this category.

My dad spent the work week away from home working in another city for most of my childhood and only was home on the weekends and holidays. He spent time with me and my sisters individually doing a variety of activities including skiing, golfing, shopping, gardening, cooking, etc. It was always considered normal father-daughter time and didn't need a special label.

I've never been to Chick-fil-A. And from what I have heard of the company, I would choose to eat elsewhere if given the choice.

[holothuroidea]

It was mentioned in the thread they have a mother son one too.

How would that help you with your relationship with your father??

[Terrie]

I don't usually do research to defend someone elses point of view.

:doh: My little librarian heart despairs.

[CanadianHippie]

I don't usually do research to defend someone elses point of view.

90% of the research is done for you. There are a list of organizations to pop into google so you can visit their site. Your refusal to do so tells me that you refuse to put yourself in a position of possibly finding out you were wrong. I suggest you get over it, because accepting you were wrong is part of life.

[treemom]

I am still interested that there is a decent amount of people who only use the term date when talking about romantic type dates. I make plans with my parents sometimes and say 'It's a date!' or use it for a lot of things that mean set appointment time to hang out.

I think that is an explanation of the squickyness for some people.

[Arete]

I use the term "it's a date" when booking time with friends and family as well. I personally do not see a sexual connotation in the word itself, however, knowing what I know about Chick-Fil-A as a company, when they use it, it gives me the creeps. Yes, they do not come out and scream "We are dominionist, VF/ATI/Quiverful dues paying members!" But they are bigots, they shove a certain form of Christianity down there customers throats every chance they get, and the charities they support tell me they are at least traveling on the same wave as a lot of dominionists. These organizations (various dominionists, ATI, and VF) have started working each other in order to further their individual and collective agendas. Vigilance is not a bad thing.

[CanadianHippie]

I've only heard "it's a date" between to friends on a TV show and it's usually followed by awkwardness because one has a crush on the other thinks it's a date date and not just a date.

[Lainey]

I've only heard "it's a date" between to friends on a TV show and it's usually followed by awkwardness because one has a crush on the other thinks it's a date date and not just a date.

I think this is good proof it must be a regional thing. ElphabaGalinda, CanadianHippie, and myself all think it's weird and wouldn't use that term for a get-together. We're all Canadian. I'm not sure about the Americans, but it seems like the FJ members from the Southern states use the term "date" in a more inclusive way.

[freejoytoo]

Sometimes I say I have a lunch date with friends but I don't call days out with my parents dates. I don't think I'd be as squicked out by it if Chick-A-Fil didn't have a reputation for being ultra-Conservative Christians who are probably sympathetic towards purity balls and the like.

[QAF_Rocks]

Perhaps the iPad version of the website is different, but none of those things are on the cfa daddy daughter site I saw.

Meh, I disagree with the idea of the incestuous overtones, but at least with your rec center I can see how people are drawing that conclusion.

However, my point was people are arguing this idea is a fringe idea and specifically relates to not dating, courtship and purity, while I think there is a tenuous link to purity, all the other things? Leaps of logic.

I get what you're trying to say. I'm not saying the concept of daddy/daughter dates and dances are fringe. My concern is actually more that these events are mainstream. The conservative Christian influence may make things worse, but these events are already rampant in regular society. Now, perhaps I notice these things more than the average person, since I didn't have a dad, but I do think the portrayal of the father-daughter relationship in American culture can border on creepy and incestuous. It's not about the word "date." It's an overall encouragement of fathers acting like lovers. People think it's "cute" when a father says he's going to chase off his daughter's first boyfriend, or when he escorts her to a sweetheart dance, or when he takes her out for a special date.

Again, if it wouldn't be considered appropriate between a father and son, why is it appropriate between a father and daughter? No one would find the idea of a father doing those things with his son to be anything other than squicky, and possibly quite threatening as well.