The cost of the no vaxer's

[AmyP]

The article also claims that because immunity from vaccines may wane, herd immunity is fake. Or something. What they say is "Clearly, these dual facts—vaccines’ ineffectiveness in a significant number of cases and loss of effectiveness in a short time span—mean that the basis of the herd immunity concept comes from a mistaken notion that vaccines are consistently effective," which is basically, because vaccines wane herd immunity is based on the concept that vaccines wane. Which is not even an argument.

YES YES YES! This is what I, rather incompetently, tried to say a few pages back! But you said it well. And with numbers, statistics, and other sciencey stuff. I applaud you. :clap:

[Wolfie]

I am getting yellow fever vax and typhoid booster on Friday.

I support vaccines.

I have been getting allergy shots for a couple months now. And had my last TDAP booster a year and a half ago. Yep, I support vaccines too.

I also agree that a lot of the anti-vaccine crowd is only looking at the present, and doesn't understand the real effects of many of these illnesses. We haven't had a very deadly flu outbreak in nearly 100 years, either.

[Terrie]

kb2, add me to the list of those who think you're awesome.

[oscar]

kb2, that was a great explanation.

[DarkAnts]

Ahem.

So, epidemiologists like to study the spread of disease. They noticed that some diseases spread more easily than others. (Forgive me for channeling Contagion.)

:clap: :clap: :clap: Thank you for taking the time to write out such a wonderful and thoughtful response.

[DarkAnts]

I am not totally against all vaccinations. I even give my daughter some vaccines on a selective "alternative" schedule. I am just trying to present why there COULD be concern. I saw so many people posting on this thread that they were all in to vaccines and they had no concern. No concern? I think everyone should have some concern and be open to the possibility that there could be some problems with them. Don't just take mainstream AMA and FDA funded research without question. When looking online for answers I found some good questions that came up about vaccines. I presented some of those to you here, but I'm far from a conspiracy theorist. I just like to look at things from all sides.

Those of us who are pro vaccination have looked at the risks of BOTH the vaccine and the disease. We know that complications from the diseases are far more dangerous then the complications one may get from a vaccine. Some of us even have had a preventable disease or we have family members who have had preventable diseases. We also understand that by getting vaccinated, we are helping to reduce the spread and occurrence of preventable diseases. Our greatest concern right now is the population that is so stupid that they will not vaccinate themselves or their offspring. Those are the people who will get the disease and spread it to others who have a weekend immune system. They are also going to be the ones to end up in the hospital and we the tax payers will have to pay for their stupidity.

[brigid]

Am I the only one who thinks this problem has been exacerbated by the fact that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford booster shots? Or actually maybe I have it the wrong way around. Those people who can't afford booster shots would be a lot less likely to be exposed to the disease if the children were vaccinated in the first place. It's like a perfect storm.

On a related note: The other day I was knitting with a group made up largely of retired nurses. They spoke about having toured the polio wards when they were in school. Some of them had actually been inside an iron lung. How many young parents today really appreciate the reality of diseases like polio? When I was growing up, Jonas Salk was spoken of reverently. How many of these anti-vaxers even know his name? As usual, it seems to boil down to a lack of education, not just science education but basic, recent history.

[DarkAnts]

Am I the only one who thinks this problem has been exacerbated by the fact that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford booster shots? Or actually maybe I have it the wrong way around. Those people who can't afford booster shots would be a lot less likely to be exposed to the disease if the children were vaccinated in the first place. It's like a perfect storm.

On a related note: The other day I was knitting with a group made up largely of retired nurses. They spoke about having toured the polio wards when they were in school. Some of them had actually been inside an iron lung. How many young parents today really appreciate the reality of diseases like polio? When I was growing up, Jonas Salk was spoken of reverently. How many of these anti-vaxers even know his name? As usual, it seems to boil down to a lack of education, not just science education but basic, recent history.

Some states give vaccines free of charge to children. They understand the importance of vaccination for public health.

[Coconut Flan]

In Cali even adults can get many vaccines free. TDAP is currently available at selected clinics free simply by walking in the door.

[FakePigtails]

Am I the only one who thinks this problem has been exacerbated by the fact that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford booster shots? Or actually maybe I have it the wrong way around. Those people who can't afford booster shots would be a lot less likely to be exposed to the disease if the children were vaccinated in the first place. It's like a perfect storm.

On a related note: The other day I was knitting with a group made up largely of retired nurses. They spoke about having toured the polio wards when they were in school. Some of them had actually been inside an iron lung. How many young parents today really appreciate the reality of diseases like polio? When I was growing up, Jonas Salk was spoken of reverently. How many of these anti-vaxers even know his name? As usual, it seems to boil down to a lack of education, not just science education but basic, recent history.

The health department where I am charges more for Tdap than Td. What do you think people are going to choose?* :( I've found the public knowledge on pertussis to be lacking too and really think there need to be more PSAs about the importance of the booster for adults who aren't parents. Between the cost and not knowing the importance of having the booster for a "childhood" disease why would anyone choose Tdap over Td?

*I realized this sounds snarky, which I don't intend it to be

[Wolfie]

The health department where I am charges more for Tdap than Td. What do you think people are going to choose?* :( I've found the public knowledge on pertussis to be lacking too and really think there need to be more PSAs about the importance of the booster for adults who aren't parents. Between the cost and not knowing the importance of having the booster for a "childhood" disease why would anyone choose Tdap over Td?

*I realized this sounds snarky, which I don't intend it to be

I get your point. I think that people don't think of the people that they will have casual contact with. If I didn't have young nieces and nephews, and even more importantly teach for a living, I don't know if I would have the drive to get vaccinated for the flu every year and to get my Tdap booster. (I may have had the booster two years in a row, because they were updating the computer system when I got the Tdap, and I'd had a tetanus booster the year before, but because I happened to be in the office on the one day that it was hard to get to my records, they just gave me the Tdap anyway.) The only reason I can think that I may have gotten it without the push of my job, is that I tend to catch respiratory things easily.

I also think that a lot of people in this area think, "oh, whooping cough, it's common, no big deal." I have actually seen this in articles about people in my county- it has one of the lowest immunization rates in the state- which is scary. (we've got both hippies and severe fundies, and as we've mentioned before, this is an area where they overlap.)

[NurseNell]

Am I the only one who thinks this problem has been exacerbated by the fact that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford booster shots? Or actually maybe I have it the wrong way around. Those people who can't afford booster shots would be a lot less likely to be exposed to the disease if the children were vaccinated in the first place. It's like a perfect storm.

On a related note: The other day I was knitting with a group made up largely of retired nurses. They spoke about having toured the polio wards when they were in school. Some of them had actually been inside an iron lung. How many young parents today really appreciate the reality of diseases like polio? When I was growing up, Jonas Salk was spoken of reverently. How many of these anti-vaxers even know his name? As usual, it seems to boil down to a lack of education, not just science education but basic, recent history.

County health departments will provide immunizations at no cost.

[emmiedahl]

We could not get adult vaccines for free when I lived in California (at least not in my area 6-10 years ago), but I wish we could. I think they were like $10 a shot, though, which is not too horrible. Up here in Washington, I called the health department and they gave me a list of places that offer "low cost" vaccines. I called them all and found a place that would immunize me for under $200. It was expensive, and I would have balked at the cost if I did not really need them. So, yeah, I suspect that cost is a huge factor.

[brigid]

County health departments will provide immunizations at no cost.

In every county in every state? Really? If I don't know that this is true, why would someone who can't afford to see the doctor know that they just have to get to the county health clinic for a shot?

[treemom]

Oh and my husband is getting a polio booster in addition to yellow fever (he is current on typhoid). and The cdc reccomends a polio booster for adults traveling to tanzania.

Edited because I said something really, really stupid :)

[emmiedahl]

In every county in every state? Really? If I don't know that this is true, why would someone who can't afford to see the doctor know that they just have to get to the county health clinic for a shot?

Not in my county! They don't even do the shots, they just give you a list of places that do.

[FireIsCatching89]

Oh and my husband is getting a polio booster in addition to yellow fever (he is current on typhoid). and The cdc reccomends a polio booster for adults traveling to tanzania.

Edited because I said something really, really stupid :)

I actually had this as a question in my medical anthro class today: are polio vaccines still routinely given in the US? I'm 22, have never travelled to a developing country, and I don't think I've ever had one. I could be wrong though.

[Third]

County health departments will provide immunizations at no cost.

Here there are days for children to get vaccinated for free but not adults. The only free adult vaccine that I've ever heard of is H1N1 that I've ever seen. Otherwise they are at least $20 each according to the signs since the WIC office is in the health dept. Unless it's needed for work I know very few adults which actually have their boosters or get the flu shot.

My children are 5 and 2 and both got polio vaccines. My son got another with his kindergarten shots. IDK if he'll get another when he's older.

[emmiedahl]

I actually had this as a question in my medical anthro class today: are polio vaccines still routinely given in the US? I'm 22, have never travelled to a developing country, and I don't think I've ever had one. I could be wrong though.

My children all received polio as babies, but I think that was it. No boosters, etc.

[Coconut Flan]

I was looking in LA County for someone else since mine was $0 through insurance, but CVS or something like that was around $70 and the person I was talking to could pay that much but was hoping for less since he only works part-time right now. I visited with our friend Google and got him a list of places and when he went there was no charge.

[FakePigtails]

In my county Td costs $15 while Tdap jumps up to $45.

[Third]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/default.htm

There are 4 doses as part of the standard vaccinations here and I think it's been on the schedule for a long time.

Boosters are only recommended for adults going to high risk areas according to this link.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/vac-faqs.htm

[treemom]

I actually had this as a question in my medical anthro class today: are polio vaccines still routinely given in the US? I'm 22, have never travelled to a developing country, and I don't think I've ever had one. I could be wrong though.

Yes they are and they probably will be until it is eradicated, just like smallpox. My son who is 11 had his IPv, but adults need one booster (they should get it even if they don't leave the country, but it is rarely reccomended). My husband isn't sure if he has had it.

Also, I consider myself so lucky to have been born into a place where these diseases have been controller by vacciNes. I have seen a child die from measles abroad and in countries with economic challenges these diseases just further complicate things.

Personally I hope for a malaria vaccine one day! (hey it is world malaria day)

[emmiedahl]

We probably had other polio shots also and they got lost in the flurry of vaccinations you get for a baby. I think the CDC schedules are the standard nationwide.

[FireIsCatching89]

Yes they are and they probably will be until it is eradicated, just like smallpox. My son who is 11 had his IPv, but adults need one booster (they should get it even if they don't leave the country, but it is rarely reccomended). My husband isn't sure if he has had it.

Also, I consider myself so lucky to have been born into a place where these diseases have been controller by vacciNes. I have seen a child die from measles abroad and in countries with economic challenges these diseases just further complicate things.

Personally I hope for a malaria vaccine one day! (hey it is world malaria day)

Thanks, y'all. I guess I did get it, then, since as far as I know, I got every reccomended vaccine as a kid. Getting Gardasil this summer.