The cost of the no vaxer's

[Wolfie]

You're seriously going to offer a site that has "Big Pharma" as one of its key topics as a reliable source?

Not to mention that Gaia is the title of the site, also a keyword for biased.

[Wolfie]

Maybe it was the youth thing that made it go so fast. My mom always said I seemed sick for all of one day with the chicken pox, while the adult I infected with them was severely ill. The shingles were itchy and uncomfortable, I remember feeling slightly flu-ish for a couple of days, and that was it.

And please, guys, give me a break with the antibiotics. This was in 1995, I was SIXTEEN, I took what the doctor gave me and after all these years, I just assumed it was antibiotics. Apparently, I was wrong and I got some other medication.

It very possibly was just a mild case- As I mentioned above, I got Chicken Pox at the same time as my siblings. They were barely ill- I was nearly hospitalized. We were all under age 7.

[Dhani_C]

Valtrex?

My mom had to take the same medication people with genital herpes have to talk so I'd say so. She was so embarrassed to get it filled and was worried about what the pharmacist was thinking. I told her that he/she would probably applaud her for being responsible and taking the steps to keep herself from infecting other people! (even though she was taking it for shingles, obvi).

[NurseNell]

Valtrex?

There are several different meds available. Valtrex I think is one of the newer ones.

[bubbabearzle]

Or, THEY ALL HAVE MERCURY AND CAUSE AUTISM. Despite the fact that uhm, that's totally been disproven!!! (the autism i have no idea 'bout the mercury)[/quote]

You would get more mercury from eating a McDonald's fish sandwich than you would get from a vaccine, and you don't see them railing about that ;)

[dawbs]

It very possibly was just a mild case- As I mentioned above, I got Chicken Pox at the same time as my siblings. They were barely ill- I was nearly hospitalized. We were all under age 7.

FWIW, if your first case of CP doesn't 'take' and you get it a 2nd time, the 2nd time is also generally pretty bad.

I had them internally and have scars from my 2nd case. (which was only a few months after my first case--my folks thought I'd be OK...nope0

[bubbabearzle]

When our son was born my husband was convinced he was autistic. He wanted me to ask our pediatrician about it at a well-child visit. So I did. The doctor's eyes *did* almost fall out of his head. He said, "Tell your husband that stripper (Jenny McCarthy doesn't know anything."

ROFLMAO - I think I love that doctor!

[sassyNoz47]

Or, THEY ALL HAVE MERCURY AND CAUSE AUTISM. Despite the fact that uhm, that's totally been disproven!!! (the autism i have no idea 'bout the mercury)[/quote]

You would get more mercury from eating a McDonald's fish sandwich than you would get from a vaccine, and you don't see them railing about that ;)

no I think its acyclovir thats the generic name for it ..Zovirax maybe?? I cant go look because my daughter is asleep on me so I can't really move so I might be totally off.

[SealFan1963]

Chicken pox is just "annoying" for some kids, even a majority of kids. However, you can't really predict if your kid will be the "more than annoying" case. My husband and his brother got chicken pox in their lungs. They were otherwise perfectly healthy kids. They spent a month recovering from it. I just had an annoying case, but I still have a couple of scars. Even the "mild" versions can leave scars. Of course, you have to do the best thing for your own kids. I'm just offering a data point.

This. When I was in high school my friend's sister was almost recovered from the chicken pox, slipped into a coma that night and died two days later in the hospital. I had the mumps when I was 11, got encephalitis, spent 9 days in intensive care and almost died. On the other hand my brother had an extreme reaction to the small pox vaccine and spent 5 days in the hospital.

Both of my kids are vaccinated, but I am not sure I would have vaccinated them on the normal schedule if I knew then what I know now. My biggest problem with vaccines today is that there are so many of them. When my first child was born 20 years ago there were about 8 vaccines a child needed before the age of 5. Now there are over 15 and counting. Some have not be tested long enough IMHO to decide whether they are really safe or not (e.g., Gardasil).

[emmiedahl]

Herd immunity is a theory which has very shaky reasoning.

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-03-12/the-science-behind-herd-immunity-and-an-extension-to-gmos/

Herd immunity has not just been proven as a method of disease control, it makes perfect logical sense as well. Herd immunity via vaccination rid the world of smallpox, my scientifically illiterate friend. Do you have a link from a scientific source and not from an anti-health group?

[FakePigtails]

This. When I was in high school my friend's sister was almost recovered from the chicken pox, slipped into a coma that night and died two days later in the hospital. I had the mumps when I was 11, got encephalitis, spent 9 days in intensive care and almost died. On the other hand my brother had an extreme reaction to the small pox vaccine and spent 5 days in the hospital.

Both of my kids are vaccinated, but I am not sure I would have vaccinated them on the normal schedule if I knew then what I know now. My biggest problem with vaccines today is that there are so many of them. When my first child was born 20 years ago there were about 8 vaccines a child needed before the age of 5. Now there are over 15 and counting. Some have not be tested long enough IMHO to decide whether they are really safe or not (e.g., Gardasil).

Advances in vaccines mean that even with there being vaccines for more diseases, there are actually fewer antigens (the bits that make your body produce antiobodies to the diseases) than ever before - by a lot. And they go through tons of scrutiny as to whether they're safe, and the current vaccination schedule is backed up by research on what vaccines work best together and when in a child's development. More info at http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/a ... dening.cfm

[bubbabearzle]

About the flu getting worse, look up the Spanish flu of 1918. People died within hours of developing symptoms. It killed more Americans than both world wars. In many cases it turned hemorrhagic, like ebola-type shit. Modern medical professionals live in fear of a flu like that getting out in modern times.

My great-grandmother died of the "Spanis" flu. She was only 28 at the time and left behind two daughters, my 5 year old grandmother and her 3 year old sister. Their father was a douchenozzle because he then sent the girls to an orphanage. That particular flu strain was so bad because it killed off the young and healthy at disproportionate rates beause it tricked their immune systems into reacting so strongly that they drowned in their own fluids.

[jericho]

Herd immunity has not just been proven as a method of disease control, it makes perfect logical sense as well. Herd immunity via vaccination rid the world of smallpox, my scientifically illiterate friend. Do you have a link from a scientific source and not from an anti-health group?

If its proven, then why is it considered a "theory"? Here is another article talking about how Herd immunity is misleading people.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

[emmiedahl]

If its proven, then why is it considered a "theory"? Here is another article talking about how Herd immunity is misleading people.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

You are showing your lack of education, Jericho. In science, a theory is a principle that has been proven to explain a group of phenomenon.

And, look! Another biased anti-vaccination site!

[brigid]

If its proven, then why is it considered a "theory"? Here is another article talking about how Herd immunity is misleading people.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

I don't think that word means what you think it does:

"A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis."

They keywords in the above definition are "supported with repeated testing". A scientific theory is different from an educated guess.

I cribbed the above from this site: http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry ... theory.htm

[pomology]

If its proven, then why is it considered a "theory"?

Gods I fucking hate it when fundies talk about science.

[jericho]

Gods I fucking hate it when fundies talk about science.

Good thing I'm not a fundy then.

[jericho]

And, look! Another biased anti-vaccination site!

To go along with all the pro-vaccination sites! Did you even read the article? I would like to hear a rebuttal to how "herd immunity" can exist when most of the adult population isn't even immunized? (vaccines wear off after 10 years at most)

[Arete]

jericho,

Russell Blaylock may have an MD, but he is a charlatan and a quack. NONE, and I mean NONE, of the health claims he makes,from vaccines causing autism, MS, and Alzheimer's disease; to his very own super speshul brand of supplements stopping "brain inflammation" have any basis in S-C-I-E-N-C-E. He has no data for his outlandish claims: no studies, nothing, zip, bumpkiss. Vaccines, as emmiedahl is trying to explain to you, actually have QUANTIFIBLE results in the reduction of infectious diseases. Results that have to be statistically meaningful, stand up to peer reviewed scrutiny on several continents, have results that are reproducable, etc. Smallpox being nearly eradicated worldwide is quantifiable. An MD stating that the moon is made of green cheese is not. :angry-banghead:

[Arete]

Got news for you jericho, 96% of people living in the US born before 1980 have been vaccinated for smallpox. Feel free to comment on why we haven't had a case in 40 odd years. When your done, you can look up the stats for Europe, Asia, and Africa and explain how smallpox has been eradicated without herd immunity. Then we can discuss the several hundred million missing cases of measles, polio, and diptheria world wide.

How old are you and do you have even Clue One about what life was like before vaccines?

[DarkAnts]

If its proven, then why is it considered a "theory"? Here is another article talking about how Herd immunity is misleading people.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

Another bias source

The International Medical Council on Vaccination is an association of medical doctors, registered nurses and other qualified medical professionals whose purpose is to counter the messages asserted by pharmaceutical companies, the government and medical agencies that vaccines are safe, effective and harmless. Our conclusions have been reached individually by each member of the Council, after thousands of hours of personal research, study and observation.

You need to give us sources that are not anti vaccination. You also need to give us sources that have actual scientific information. That paper that you quoted had absolutely NO scientific data to support what they were saying. They jump to conclusions because some people loose immunity before its time for the booster to be given. It fails to note that the protected population is still much greater then the non protected population.

[DarkAnts]

To go along with all the pro-vaccination sites! Did you even read the article? I would like to hear a rebuttal to how "herd immunity" can exist when most of the adult population isn't even immunized? (vaccines wear off after 10 years at most)

Here is a good explanation from the National Institute of Asthma and Infectious disease

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/pages/c ... unity.aspx

I can give you references from papers, but you will have to find a way to gain access to the full article. I have access through my school. I can not put the up on some site because that would be against the copyright laws.

Glanz JM, McClure DL, Magid DJ, et al. (June 2009). "Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children". Pediatrics 123 (6): 1446–51.

John TJ, Samuel R (2000). "Herd immunity and herd effect: new insights and definitions". Eur. J. Epidemiol. 16 (7): 601–6.

[jericho]

Here is a good explanation from the National Institute of Asthma and Infectious disease

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/pages/c ... unity.aspx

I can give you references from papers, but you will have to find a way to gain access to the full article. I have access through my school. I can not put the up on some site because that would be against the copyright laws.

Glanz JM, McClure DL, Magid DJ, et al. (June 2009). "Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children". Pediatrics 123 (6): 1446–51.

John TJ, Samuel R (2000). "Herd immunity and herd effect: new insights and definitions". Eur. J. Epidemiol. 16 (7): 601–6.

But tell me why more outbreaks don't happen when most adults are not vaccinated for anything beyond tetanus?

[DarkAnts]

Here is a good explanation on Herd Immunity along with references to actual data. It may bee too scientific for those who attended sotdrt.

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/7/911.full

[breaker]

People who tell stories about horribly severe flu symptoms in recent years make me wonder if exactly the same thing is happening there, only the strongest and most severe flu strains are staying alive long enough to be passed on, putting people at even higher risk. It makes sence, the enviroment that vaccination created fosters this sort of reaction, instead of getting a current immunity from a minor flu, everyone remains vulnerable until a particularly bad bug manages to live long enough to be passed onto them.

Viruses are mutating all the time, vaccine or no vaccine, and influenza happens to be one of the fastest mutating human viruses out there. (Different viruses mutate at different rates - some, such as HIV, mutate so fast that they can be more genetically diverse within a single human than some other organism through the entire world). Historically, the most dangerous flu strains have arisen through random mutation events that allowed bird influenza to be passed to humans, sometimes with other animals as intermediates. This has happened a few times in the past hundred years and each time it has been catastrophic for humans (and the virus too, actually, because its goal is not to kill the human, but to propagate itself, and if the human dies that's often a dead end from the virus' perspective). Vaccines have had nothing to do with this process.

Your theory about "only the strongest and most severe flu strains are staying alive long enough to be passed on" doesn't make sense because the natural hosts for influenza are water fowl, both wild and domestic. They host the virus asymptomatically, so unless we wipe out every water bird in the world, there will always be influenza and it will always be mutating. What's more, the mutation rate of influenza is so fast that a new vaccine needs to be produced every single year, depending on which strain is circulating. It's not a case of "minor" versus "severe" seasonal influenza, it's just a case of altering the epitopes to be targeted each year as the virus changes.