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The cost of the no vaxer's


doggie

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MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) - For Jennifer Stella, it's a question of informed consent. Her son had a seizure after getting childhood vaccinations and her daughter suffered a "head-to-toe" eczema outbreak; she says parents should research the risks and benefits of immunizations and decide which ones are appropriate.

we are starting to see the price of the no vaxer's. but of course they will ignore these stories.

Whooping cough epidemic in Wash. worries Oregon

PENDLETON, Ore. (AP) - Public health officials in Oregon are so worried about the whooping cough epidemic in neighboring Washington state that some nurses are giving out free vaccinations in shopping center parking lots.

The East Oregonian newspaper reports (http://bit.ly/I6Sl7Y ) that Oregon has 120 reported cases of whooping cough since January, most in Multnomah and Washington counties. Oregon had four pertussis-related deaths since 2007, all infants.

Washington has 897 reported cases so far this year, and those high numbers are worrying public health officials in Umatilla County. The county is offering free vaccination clinics next month in Pendleton and Hermiston.

Pertussis, or whooping cough, is a highly contagious respiratory illness spread by coughing and sneezing. Health officials say people can protect themselves by getting vaccinated.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268748/conten ... d=sN4LTs0x

For Jill Olson, a mother of two, it's a matter of trusting the experts. "There's not really any way that as an individual I can do more scientific study and research than the American Academy of Pediatrics or the Centers for Disease Control."

For Vermont House Speaker Shap Smith, the state motto sums it up: "freedom and unity" - individual choice versus the public health benefit of having a high percentage of kids vaccinated.

"It's a balance between individual rights and our obligations to each other in society," the Democratic speaker said.

For much of the legislative session, Vermont has been embroiled in a debate over whether to end the "philosophical exemption" - essentially a right of refusal for parents who want to enroll their children in school or child care without immunizations. The list of shots called for by the state Health Department and the CDC is roughly 20 by the time a child enters kindergarten.

The CDC and state health officials say Vermont is among the states with the highest exemption rates for childhood vaccinations. Some say it's no coincidence that Vermont recently has seen an outbreak of one of the diseases the vaccines target: pertussis, or whooping cough.

In 2010-11, the latest school year for which data is available, an Associated Press analysis of state health department data showed Alaska with nearly 9 percent of kindergarten children exempted. Colorado's rate was 7 percent and Vermont and Washington state each had 6 percent.

As the 2012 legislative session winds down, lawmakers are at loggerheads: The Senate voted 26-4 in early March to eliminate the philosophical exemption; the House voted 93-36 earlier this month to keep it.

If no agreement is reached, the legislation will die and Vermont will remain among the 20 states that allow some form of philosophical exemption from required childhood immunizations. All but a handful of states offer religious exemptions, and all allow medical exemptions for kids.

Many of Vermont's more vocal vaccine skeptics are active in alternative health and natural food movements and are critical of what they see as a profit-driven pharmaceutical industry. Stella, a homeopathic health practitioner, works at a clinic that also offers massage and herbal medicine.

Critics of the philosophical exemption say Vermont's immunization rates have been dropping, a slide that must be halted to preserve what public health officials call "herd immunity." That's when most of the population is immunized against a specific disease to keep outbreaks from occurring.

Christine Finley, immunization program manager at the state Health Department, said the percentage of Vermont kindergarteners with all their required immunizations dropped from 93 percent in 2005 to 83 percent in 2010.

Aside from pertussis, Finley said, Vermont has not seen big increases in other vaccine-preventable diseases, but she argued prevention is necessary. "Do you want to wait until you've got a measles outbreak?" she asked.

Stella's group, the Vermont Coalition for Vaccine Choice, says the rate of vaccination decline is exaggerated, since kids are counted as unvaccinated if they miss just one of the required shots.

Finley said Vermont and other states with high exemption rates have seen recent outbreaks of pertussis, or whooping cough, a sometimes fatal bacterial infection of the upper respiratory tract. Pertussis vaccine is part of the required childhood immunization schedule. And because the immunity wears off over time, the CDC advises everyone 11 and older to get a booster shot, Finley said.

Vermont saw 102 pertussis cases between January and the first week of April, Finley said, more than were reported in the state all last year. Washington state had 640 cases of pertussis from January through March, up from 94 for the same period last year.

One of the most vocal Vermont lawmakers pushing to end the philosophical exemption has been Rep. George Till, D-Jericho, an obstetrician-gynecologist. He has complained bitterly of parents failing to get their children immunized and putting other children at risk.

"The question is whether they have the right to endanger other children in the school setting," he said during a recent House debate on ending the philosophical exemption.

Stella dismissed that criticism, saying vaccines aren't always effective in all children and that some who have received shots are as susceptible to disease as those who have not.

One hot spot for the immunization debate in Vermont has been Middlesex, just outside the capital of Montpelier, where 41 of 157 elementary children at Rumney Memorial School come from families filling out a state form and exempting them from vaccines.

Rumney school nurse Martha Israel - who was quick to say she was speaking only for herself and not for the school - said she does not want to see kids kicked out of school because their parents won't have them vaccinated.

"I don't think we deny our children in Vermont a public school education because we don't agree with the medical choices their parents make, when we're not in a public health crisis," said Israel, a school nurse since 1989.

Gov. Peter Shumlin has sided with the House's push for more education on immunizations over the Senate's push to remove the philosophical exemption - a 180-degree turn from the position his health commissioner, Dr. Harry Chen, pushed for earlier in this year's legislative session.

"I do not believe that in the end the government should dictate to parents what inoculations their kids have to get in order to get a public education in Vermont," the governor said. He said he wants Vermont to "start with more education, to separate the myths that you read about on the Internet with the facts that health care providers will give you on this."

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Guest Anonymous

My daughter who is 11 is going in next week for her booster of the whooping cough vaccine. All incoming 7th graders at the junior high she will be attending next year need it.

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Last year, Utah had three measles outbreaks. I often wonder if these parents would with hold the immunizations if they ever had to watch a child go through polio.

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Last year, Utah had three measles outbreaks. I often wonder if these parents would with hold the immunizations if they ever had to watch a child go through polio.

do they care that their children will spread the disease to others miniature typhoid mary's

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Last year, Utah had three measles outbreaks. I often wonder if these parents would with hold the immunizations if they ever had to watch a child go through polio.

Some of them would. And some people really can NOT be immunized or it really does NOT take. Those people are the ones being put at risk.

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I have a friend who is a really intelligent person. But, she and her husband are all AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! CHEMICALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FLOURIDE IS MIND CONTROL!!!!!!! So, of course, they don't vax.

Two summers ago she casually mentioned that she was pretty sure her kid had whooping cough all summer. :| Now, I don't think he did. I've seen the videos of kids with whooping cough gasping for breath and her kid just had a really bad hacking cough. But, seriously? I'm around that kid. I'm also around an imuno-suppressed family member who can't be vaccinated. I was pretty ticked.

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do they care that their children will spread the disease to others miniature typhoid mary's

The school districts with outbreaks forced all unvaccinated children and adults to remain home for a month. They also let high risk children stay home.

I hate it when people dont vaccinate their children. I would even accuse them of murder if their child or an immune compromised person died due to contact with their plague rats. Its selfish to not vaccinate because it not only effects you and your children but also the most vulnerable in our populations (very young, very old exc).

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Before I had my daughter, I was anti vax. I didn't like the idea of putting chemicals and the like into newborn babies. I wasn't vaxed myself and I never got anything as a kid.

However, when I became a Mum, I did the research, talked to people and decided to vax my daughter. Whooping cough was probably the one that made the decision for me, as we have a number of cases in our area recently.

I think people get very caught up either being pro or anti vax, and forget to do the research for themselves. It's not always black and white.

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Before I had my daughter, I was anti vax. I didn't like the idea of putting chemicals and the like into newborn babies. I wasn't vaxed myself and I never got anything as a kid.

However, when I became a Mum, I did the research, talked to people and decided to vax my daughter. Whooping cough was probably the one that made the decision for me, as we have a number of cases in our area recently.

I think people get very caught up either being pro or anti vax, and forget to do the research for themselves. It's not always black and white.

the problem is the internet makes it so easy to get crappy info that seems true. or that follows what you want to believe.

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I would think seeing your kid in pain with just a regular virus that included vomiting/high fever would be enough for parents to get a clue. One year (before I was a parent) I did not get a flu shot, and got the flu. I was in horrible pain w/high fever for a week, and lost my voice for the entire next week. I absolutely never want to watch my daughter go through that so she never misses any of her shots. She hates needles so is going to be so upset when she finds out she will have to get another booster when she is eleven! She is 8 and her doctor told her that this summer would be her last round.

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I would think seeing your kid in pain with just a regular virus that included vomiting/high fever would be enough for parents to get a clue. One year (before I was a parent) I did not get a flu shot, and got the flu. I was in horrible pain w/high fever for a week, and lost my voice for the entire next week. I absolutely never want to watch my daughter go through that so she never misses any of her shots. She hates needles so is going to be so upset when she finds out she will have to get another booster when she is eleven! She is 8 and her doctor told her that this summer would be her last round.

The last two times I have gotten the flu have been even worse than what you experienced- one time I got walking pneumonia as a secondary infection- It seemed to be common with the strain that was going around. The other time it was a "mild" case of H1N1, and I was exhausted for a couple months afterwards.

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I hesitate to point this out, but recent research shows that the pertussis vax wears off years earlier than they thought and the disease itself is mutating because of the vaccine, so that even if it hasn't worn off, it often isn't effective. Add to that that the vax does not prevent pertussis, it merely decreases symptoms, so people walk around spreading it because they think they just have a bad cold, and it's hardly a surprise we're hearing about it more lately. I'm actually pretty sure I had it while I was pregnant. No whoop, but adults usually don't have that. I had a horrid cough for 2-3 months.

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Add to that that the vax does not prevent pertussis, it merely decreases symptoms, so people walk around spreading it because they think they just have a bad cold, and it's hardly a surprise we're hearing about it more lately. I'm actually pretty sure I had it while I was pregnant. No whoop, but adults usually don't have that. I had a horrid cough for 2-3 months.

I'd rather have a bad cough than a full blown case. My niece just ended up with a mild case of the chicken pox even after having the vaccine. They were so small it was hard to identify them. They barely bothered her and were gone in a few days.

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I hesitate to point this out, but recent research shows that the pertussis vax wears off years earlier than they thought and the disease itself is mutating because of the vaccine, so that even if it hasn't worn off, it often isn't effective. Add to that that the vax does not prevent pertussis, it merely decreases symptoms, so people walk around spreading it because they think they just have a bad cold, and it's hardly a surprise we're hearing about it more lately. I'm actually pretty sure I had it while I was pregnant. No whoop, but adults usually don't have that. I had a horrid cough for 2-3 months.

:roll: The Pertussis vaccine is effective. There are many people out there who may think that they have Pertussis when they have a different disease. This is probably what happened to you. Its also the reason we need to go see our doctors if we can not get well in a reasonable amount of time.

Pertussis is caused by a bacteria called Bordetella pertussis. Bacteria mutate because we over use antibiotics. An antibiotic is a compound that will kill certain types of bacteria. A vaccine is not an antibiotic. A vaccine causes your body to have an immune response to a killed virus or bacteria. The bodies response is to build antibodies that can attack the bacteria or virus. This allows your body to automatically fight the bacteria when it first comes into your body instead of having to take time to figure out which antibody to make. Over time, the body will forget how to make some antibodies. This is why we have to get booster vaccines. It retrains your body to make the antibodies.

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Doggie, thank you for posting this - it is a subject near and dear to my heart. Not only am I an infectious disease researcher (in a nonprofit organization), but I am also the mother of an immunocompromised little boy. Oh, and I livw in Washington. Seeing as he was just released from the hospital today (he had been there since Friday for an infection), can quite honestly smack the first non-vaxer Icame across had my son been infected with something vaccine preventable (not the case tis time around).

FYI, I am not including those who do not continue to vaccinate because of a previous bad reaction to a vaccine or a family history of really bad vaccine reactions. I am, OTOH, including those morons who don't vaccinte because they still believe the thoroughly debunked study by Wakefield that claimed to connect the MMR vaccination with autism.

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The last two times I have gotten the flu have been even worse than what you experienced- one time I got walking pneumonia as a secondary infection- It seemed to be common with the strain that was going around. The other time it was a "mild" case of H1N1, and I was exhausted for a couple months afterwards.

I had a similar problem the one year I missed my flu vax and caught it (three days after foot surgery, so being immobile helped the pneumonia set in deep). From that experience, I came up with the following idea to separate those who truly have the flu from those who call every other bug they catch the flu:

Unless you not only think you are about to die, but also welcome the idea as a way to end your suffering, it probably aint the flu!

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:roll: The Pertussis vaccine is effective. There are many people out there who may think that they have Pertussis when they have a different disease. This is probably what happened to you. Its also the reason we need to go see our doctors if we can not get well in a reasonable amount of time.

Pertussis is caused by a bacteria called Bordetella pertussis. Bacteria mutate because we over use antibiotics. An antibiotic is a compound that will kill certain types of bacteria. A vaccine is not an antibiotic. A vaccine causes your body to have an immune response to a killed virus or bacteria. The bodies response is to build antibodies that can attack the bacteria or virus. This allows your body to automatically fight the bacteria when it first comes into your body instead of having to take time to figure out which antibody to make. Over time, the body will forget how to make some antibodies. This is why we have to get booster vaccines. It retrains your body to make the antibodies.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Shrew L-) I was about to dive in, but I couldn't top your excellent comments!

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The Jenny McCarthy body count page was updated on April 7 - 879 deaths from preventable illnesses since 2007, over 93,000 cases of preventable illness. Good going, anti-vaxers.

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I probably posted this before, but I'm one of those whose mumps portion of the MMR vaccine didn't take, and I had a mild case of mumps when I was 10 as a result. My parents remembered how bad polio was, so they instilled in my brother and I the importance of vaccines. If anyone wanted to see that the autism link study was fully debunked, they would have to look at my niece who has had everything to date including the MMR shot, and has never shown any signs of being on the autism spectrum.

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Hey, I just remembered something. My daughter was born 2 months early and very tiny. My in-laws, bless their pseudo-science loving hearts, sent me a scary anti-vax book. As a new, sleep-deprived mom, I actually got very frightened and thought I better look into it. A few hours of research debunked every claim in that silly book. And boy was I pissed off. What a thing to do to a mom and a sick baby. I hate to think what might've happened if I simply accepted the scare claims uncritically. Thankfully it's not in my nature to do that.

Anti-vaxers strike again.

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I was watching a morning news program that interviewed a doctor last week.

The whooping cough vaccine is going the same direction as anti-biotics. It used to be 95% effective, it's now 70%, 80% according to the most optimistic study, and dropping. Whooping cough is mutating, making it even more dangerous to those at risk, causing people who had an immunity to now get it again in old age, and making it even more dangerous for infants.

People who tell stories about horribly severe flu symptoms in recent years make me wonder if exactly the same thing is happening there, only the strongest and most severe flu strains are staying alive long enough to be passed on, putting people at even higher risk. It makes sence, the enviroment that vaccination created fosters this sort of reaction, instead of getting a current immunity from a minor flu, everyone remains vulnerable until a particularly bad bug manages to live long enough to be passed onto them.

Vaccination has also meant people think nothing of going out when they're sick. It used to be if you thought you might have something like measels or whooping cough you kept yourself home in consideration for those around you. Now? I had someone who knew he was currently contagious for chicken pox show up at my house while I was in early pregnancy! He didn't even tell me he had it until he was leaving, I was horrified! His response was simply 'You vaccinated, right?". Vaccines are not 100% so you should still avoid high risk persons when contagious, and as it happens I have a family history of reactions, including (confirmed by two doctors) myself and my brother almost dying from the same vaccine 10 years apart, so no, I am not vaccinated.

I also discovered, while pregnant and close to delivery, that my inlaws had developed whooping cough. The problem? I found out second hand through a friend weeks later, after having been at their house! That could have been an absolute disaster if the timing had gone badly.

It used to be if you had measels you recognised the symptoms and stayed home. Now you just assume you have a bit of a cold, go out to the shops, and pass the virus onto an immuno-compromised child. Just because you don't have a full blown case does not mean you don't carry the disease. I think at risk people are far more likely to be infected by a vaccinated person who just thinks they have a cold than a non-vaccinated person who recognises their symptoms and quarantines themselves. The diseases spread more readily through those who are vaccinated because when the illness comes on, the vaccine covers it up, meaning they don't even take anti-biotics or other medications to stop it being contagious. Someone who is not vaccinated will often seek treatment.

There's certainly issues either way, fact is people die. The problem is trying to work out which scenario leads to less death, a virus that has been known to kill children in the past, or a mutated virus in an enviroment where it is more likely to kill at risk persons but be avoided by general society, at least in the short term until the vaccine is rendered ineffective, and it becomes a race to make a new one (the new whooping cough vaccine is already in the works but nowhere near ready to be used)

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If anyone wanted to see that the autism link study was fully debunked, they would have to look at my niece who has had everything to date including the MMR shot, and has never shown any signs of being on the autism spectrum.

Um, no.

Nobody ever said that MMR gives everyone autism. Sometimes one counterexample is enough: this is not one of those times.

NB I am not arguing the case for the link, which has indeed been thoroughly debunked. I'm saying you can't debunk it by saying look at this one person (in the same way that just because Particular Ancient Person smoked heavily for years doesn't mean there isn't a link between cigarettes and horrible diseases).

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I was watching a morning news program that interviewed a doctor last week.

The whooping cough vaccine is going the same direction as anti-biotics. It used to be 95% effective, it's now 70%, 80% according to the most optimistic study, and dropping. Whooping cough is mutating, making it even more dangerous to those at risk, causing people who had an immunity to now get it again in old age, and making it even more dangerous for infants.

People who tell stories about horribly severe flu symptoms in recent years make me wonder if exactly the same thing is happening there, only the strongest and most severe flu strains are staying alive long enough to be passed on, putting people at even higher risk. It makes sence, the enviroment that vaccination created fosters this sort of reaction, instead of getting a current immunity from a minor flu, everyone remains vulnerable until a particularly bad bug manages to live long enough to be passed onto them.

Vaccination has also meant people think nothing of going out when they're sick. It used to be if you thought you might have something like measels or whooping cough you kept yourself home in consideration for those around you. Now? I had someone who knew he was currently contagious for chicken pox show up at my house while I was in early pregnancy! He didn't even tell me he had it until he was leaving, I was horrified! His response was simply 'You vaccinated, right?". Vaccines are not 100% so you should still avoid high risk persons when contagious, and as it happens I have a family history of reactions, including (confirmed by two doctors) myself and my brother almost dying from the same vaccine 10 years apart, so no, I am not vaccinated.

I also discovered, while pregnant and close to delivery, that my inlaws had developed whooping cough. The problem? I found out second hand through a friend weeks later, after having been at their house! That could have been an absolute disaster if the timing had gone badly.

It used to be if you had measels you recognised the symptoms and stayed home. Now you just assume you have a bit of a cold, go out to the shops, and pass the virus onto an immuno-compromised child. Just because you don't have a full blown case does not mean you don't carry the disease. I think at risk people are far more likely to be infected by a vaccinated person who just thinks they have a cold than a non-vaccinated person who recognises their symptoms and quarantines themselves. The diseases spread more readily through those who are vaccinated because when the illness comes on, the vaccine covers it up, meaning they don't even take anti-biotics or other medications to stop it being contagious. Someone who is not vaccinated will often seek treatment.

There's certainly issues either way, fact is people die. The problem is trying to work out which scenario leads to less death, a virus that has been known to kill children in the past, or a mutated virus in an enviroment where it is more likely to kill at risk persons but be avoided by general society, at least in the short term until the vaccine is rendered ineffective, and it becomes a race to make a new one (the new whooping cough vaccine is already in the works but nowhere near ready to be used)

I was going to say, no one can be this stupid.

But apparently that would be wrong. Where in the world are you getting all this misinformation?

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I remember reading something not too long ago about the DTaP being less effective now (although it was stated at 85%, not that low). The problem with the loss of efficacy is the fact that we are no longer using a whole cell vaccine (DTP) because of the side effects. We now use an acellular pertussis vaccine (DTaP) and yes, it does not last as long (something like 5 or so years before a booster is need? don't quote me on that one) or stop transmission if someone is exposed and picks it up in a very mild form so that it isn't recognized.

Still, 85% is better than 0% and a milder version is much better than a full blown version. I have a no vax friend whose daughter caught pertussis last summer and she is STILL suffering from the effects. She refused antibiotics for several months until my friends and I talked some sense into her and while they helped her daughter still coughed for many more months. I want to say it was last month or so...maybe late Feb...that she said her daughter had been cough free for over a week. :evil:

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