The cost of the no vaxer's

[Boltingmadonna]

I apologize for not reading all 20+ pages of this. The discussions are usually so much the same as previous ones. I'm just jumping in at the end to say that I'm old enough to remember before some of these vaccines existed. I got the polio vaccine as a kid. But my parents still remembered the previous years when children were dying and being crippled by the disease. Even though I was vaccinated, they never wanted to take me to a public swimming pool--once a potential source of infection. That's how scared they were.

I remember when my brother and I got measles. We were really sick. I can still remember the awful taste in my mouth, and how I had such a high fever that everything seemed to wobble around me and my vision was blurry and weird. Not to mention the horrid itching. I had just a regular case of measles, no lasting harm. But it was still damn scary. I'm so glad my own children never had to go through that. I remember when my little sister and my brother had mumps. It scared me because their faces swelled up and they cried and couldn't eat. I remember when my sister had whooping cough, and my parents sat up with her night after night with the shower running, hoping the steam would ease her cough.

My own four children were born before the chicken pox vaccine came out. The three older ones all caught it at the same time. It was MISERABLE for all of us. I thought my youngest, the baby, had escaped it, but then she started to cry and fuss. She didn't have spots on her limbs and face, so I thought she was okay. I'll never forget the awful sick feeling I had when I took off her diaper and saw that the whole area underneath had broken out in a mass of sores. Ugh, you don't ever want to see that happen to a child.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to risk such illness for their child. Even if there aren't lasting bad effects, it's miserable. It just isn't worth it. Sure, it's all fun and games as long as your child is lucky enough not to catch anything, and you can pat yourself on the back for being such a successful, all-natural mom. But when it actually happens to your child, it's awful. I'm so glad my children never had measles, mumps, rubella, TB, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, or any of those other things, and my grandchildren won't have chicken pox, either.

[OkToBeTakei]

Maybe we are just having a miscommunication issue or something. But this is why I said it was smug and "isn't really a risk"

Perhaps it was asking me why? when it seemed obvious why I was saying it.

Oh Ok..i can see why you may have thought thought. I tend to be direct. I was actually just interested as to what your reasoning was ..I should possibly have said that. I did not want to assume although as it turned it out it was what I assumed and agreed with. Choice is only choice until you do not have that privilege. It's sad.

[OkToBeTakei]

You see, that makes perfect sense. That's a straightforward way of writing something. '6.7% per 100 000 per population' just seems insane to me. Thanks, mpheels.

One to many pers..so sorry you had such a problem with it.

[OkToBeTakei]

Since we started vaccinating, we have seen a huge reduction in childhood illness, misery and death. Not just in the numbers, but in quantitative measures. Like this quantitative measure: I am the first generation in my family not to have lost a sibling to a communicable disease. People my parents' age and older snerk when people our age start talking about how measles or whooping cough aren't that bad. Before immunization, losing a child was routine.

Why don't you think the statistics are accurate?

I totally agree with your above statement. It is extremely well documented. My own views on immunisation are just that. We all make and base decisions on very many reasons. Statistics though are misleading. For the sake of what we are talking about it was mentioned say 50% then 30% of CP in infants would be fatal. This type of statistic does not say if the infant was premature, underweight, immunosupressed..I could go on.

The emotional reasoning for this type of argument are always paramount. It is contentious and evokes strong feelings whichever view you take agree or disagree with. I do not expect mine to be right or wrong. Nor judge anybody else. We all make decisions for differing reasons histories.

But statistics like everything else need scrutiny. My country based a whole vaccination campaign on some fairly spurious statistics. Parents who refused to vaccinate with MMR were quite commonly asked to find another practice. Bearing in mind the same government then had to apologise for saying CJD was caused by tainted beef...it was not a time you wanted to believe they had your child's interest at heart.

Saying all that I am heart glad to have the choice.

[Guest Anonymous]

One to many pers..so sorry you had such a problem with it.

Dear OkToBeTakei

I hope you don't read my posts as being sarcastic or weird. I was just asking. I don't think my maths-processing brain has been functioning at normal speed since I was 16 or 17.

sogba

[OkToBeTakei]

God no I think I am the winner in not getting things at the moment.

It is difficult to sometimes get across what you are saying without putting some kind of personal spin on it. I choose mostly not to do that. I really do like seeing others thoughts. Also my Maths is utterly shite. Seriously bad. :D

[Chowder Head]

Pro vax. I have been vax for polio and about everything else. Polio was still being given in the early mid 80's. I had cp mild case. I still have scars. MY brother and I have both had measles. Vaccines arent perfect but they keep improving. I recently got vax for cp, pneumuina ( had it..lord 104 temp and drowning uggg) whoping cough, tetnaus andmmr and other stuff includinf flu because my immune syst

[Chowder Head]

System can handle it. I am a teacher and I am a daughter and If im immunized than Im protecting the ones around me.

Sorry evil phone tping

[dawbs]

This may have been said way back, but I didn't see it...I'll say I get judgy about people who forget that their being anti-vax is dangerous for people who are pro-vax, but who can't.

This person explains it better:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... n_you.html

a friend of mine has a child who isn't healthy and who can't get vaccines because of some serious health and allergy issues.

So, her kid could easily die from chicken pox...and can't get the vaccine for chicken pox. If said kid is in a population where nearly all the other kids he comes in contact w/ are immune, no worries. If he goes someplace and only 50% of the kids are immune/vaccinated, well, the odds that could kill him are to high. So he can't go places until his mom is relatively sure the majority of the kids are vaccinated.

I'll also judge people who take advantage of herd immunity without contributing to it.

Meaning, if someone says that the risk/benefit is such that they don't need to vaccinate their kid, I want to know how the hell they're getting their risk number.

If the 'risk' number is based on the fact that most of the rest of us vaccinate our kids, then I want them to re-do their mental math and assume that herd immunity isn't a factor. Get a new risk/benefit calculation. If you STILL wouldn't vaccinate, good for you. If it changes it enough that you would vaccinate your kid, you're a selfish crotch for wanting to sell out other kid's risks to decrease your own kid's risks; get the shots already.

[BravaAmica]

I just don't understand why anyone would want to risk such illness for their child. Even if there aren't lasting bad effects, it's miserable. It just isn't worth it. Sure, it's all fun and games as long as your child is lucky enough not to catch anything, and you can pat yourself on the back for being such a successful, all-natural mom. But when it actually happens to your child, it's awful. I'm so glad my children never had measles, mumps, rubella, TB, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, or any of those other things, and my grandchildren won't have chicken pox, either.

^QFT

I do get that there are valid medical reasons for not vaccinating, like my dad's case. He had leukemia. He had a bone marrow transplant in the late 1970s which wiped out all of his previous immunities. He couldn't get re-vaccinated. In recent years, he was able to start getting the flu shot but that's it. I remember when we (my sisters, me and/or my mom) would get sick (like flu or strep or the chicken pox), he would have to stay at a hotel. But this whole "crisis of conscience" bullshit for not vaccinating is just that, bullshit.

[maybeizfundie]

I just don't understand why anyone would want to risk such illness for their child.

Because their perspective is so skewed. The genuinely believe that vaccines contain horrible poisons which cause autism and a myriad of other dreadful things, and so they're weighing a "probably temporary no-big-deal illness" against a lifetime of not being neurotypical and/or suffering various and sundry health miseries. I mean, *I* wouldn't want to inject my child with poison. And that's what they belive vaccinations are (Formaldehyde! Mercury!)

They "research" with blinders on, and ignore or brush off things that would take the stability out of their argument. I have not yet had anyone explain to me why, if vaccines do *nothing* for polio and it's all about hygeine and clean water, my husband's country has seen a massive decrease in polio incidence, without a corresponding increase in infrastructure, availability of clean water, and hygenic resources. They are bolstered by their gathering of like-minded friends and aquaintances who reassure them that they've had or their children have had these diseases and it was uncomfortable but not really that bad. Everything is put through this "filter." They won't question this unless and until they lose a child to one of these diseases. Which is not something I wish on them. :(

My parents, as doctors, were a lot more understanding of non-vaxers until the community they treated (mostly non-vaxed, due to the religious/cultural makeup of the community) had a mini whooping cough epidemic. Up to that point they just hadn't seen these kinds of diseases up close and personal (since most people they'd seen up to that point were vaccinated). So as a concept it was "vaccines are good and helpful, but it's a personal choice). They were scared out of their minds watching these poor kids and trying to help them, and though they didn't lose any kids that time, the value of vaccination and herd immunity was made very real to them.

[DarkAnts]

Part of the first world problem is that we are so far removed from disease. The news makes a big deal out of hantavirus outbreaks and west nile outbreaks. But, they are not anywhere near the same order of magnitude as polio outbreaks. I have a friend who talks about not being able to go out with friends or even play with friends during "polio season" due to fear of getting it. We dont have that level of fear now. Think about it, when was the last time you heard a healthy person say they cant go out because its flu season.

[ladidah]

They "research" with blinders on, and ignore or brush off things that would take the stability out of their argument.

You've hit the nail on the head. I'm so tired of hearing people with no medical knowledge whatsoever tell me all about the "research" they've done, as if Google University actually gave them knowledge comparable (let alone superior) to a medical professional's training.