Another sneak peak..Duggars say goodbye.

[donks]

I can't even imagine having to watch your Mom shit out a dead fetus.

That should be considered child abuse-except I guess they're technically adults now... Why do they stay? Were they so brainwashed that they can't see the bullshit?

[sassyNoz47]

joy and Jinger arent adults

[dizzy]

I noticed this when Grandpa died. No one attempted to comfort each other, and actually it was as if these folks didn't know how to grieve, express feelings of pain or loss or regret. I wonder if it has to do with the 'going to a better place' POV?

I think the most real emotion I've seen was when Grandpa died, from Jim Bob. When he saw the slideshow of pictures Jana made he was crying hard - and hugged Jana, twice, like he didn't quite want to let go. Full on frontal hugs, not the side ones.

Which would sort of make sense, as I imagine he WAS raised with some affection. What goes on in someone's mind to have a somewhat normal upbringing then decide his children aren't deserving of that physical affection?

[lilwriter85]

I personally wouldn't let teenagers be at a delivery for a stillborn. If they asked, I would ask them if they really want to be there.

[Kitchen Princess]

I can't even imagine having to watch your Mom shit out a dead fetus.

That should be considered child abuse-except I guess they're technically adults now... Why do they stay? Were they so brainwashed that they can't see the bullshit?

I FUCKING HATE when someone compares birth to shitting. Cut it the fuck out.

[Kitty]

joy and Jinger arent adults

Jinger is an adult... legally, anyway. Admittedly, she's still an adolescent in reality.

Joy though? She's 14. She shouldn't have to be there while Michelle passes what's left of a dead fetus. Neither should any of her older sisters, unless they honestly chose to. I don't think many 14 year olds could handle the stillbirth of a sister.

[Lady]

They're taught not to show their true emotions (unless they're jumping for Jeebus) practically since birth. I grew up in unsavory circumstances during my formative years and learned to shut it down very early on. I still am not very emotional, except privately.

Vision, was it you, here, who posted the names on the little "death certificate" they had? The first person isn't Deanna. I caught the west coast feed, froze it and it's definitely someone named "Vanessa Graves/Groves." Definitely not sister Deanna. Probably a married Query daughter with proper Gothard training.

Looking at that thing in detail, Boob's handwriting is as arrested as his wife's.

No it was me that posted the names. I'll have to go back and rewatch it. But here's my question: who is Vanessa Grave/Grove and Sarah Walker?

[freealljs]

I FUCKING HATE when someone compares birth to shitting. Cut it the fuck out.

I don't think donks is comparing shitting to birthing.

[spragger]

I don't think donks is comparing shitting to birthing.

Well, using the verb "shit" instead of "pass" or "deliver" or something similar seems to be making a comparison and is pretty harsh IMO. My first reaction was, you do know feces and babies come out of different holes, right?

If a close friend/relative had to deliver a stillborn baby I would stay with them. The question I would have in this case is whether these girls got a choice in the matter.

Edited for clarification. Sorry I couldn't get my edit in before your comment SB!

[Spider Burps]

This sounded harsh to me too. My first reactions was, you do know feces and babies come out of different holes, right?

If a close friend/relative had to deliver a stillborn baby I would stay with them. The question I would have in this case is whether these girls got a choice in the matter.

Sounded harsh to me, too, though I will say that maybe I'm just offended because it's referring to miscarriage and that's a raw subject for me. You're already have to deal with birthing a dead baby, but now one of your few memories of your baby/fetus/whatever will be it being likened to shit. Awesome.

[spragger]

Edited for DP

[spragger]

Sounded harsh to me, too, though I will say that maybe I'm just offended because it's referring to miscarriage and that's a raw subject for me. You're already have to deal with birthing a dead baby, but now one of your few memories of your baby/fetus/whatever will be it being likened to shit. Awesome.

Yes, also, you are literally replacing the verb "deliver" with the verb "shit" so if that is not a comparison, IDK what is.

[3 is enough]

My guess would be that Jill wanted to be with her mother during the delivery, and maybe Jana too. Jessa and Jinger? Don't know. Joy was probably "encouraged" to be present- another "you're a young lady now, time to start acting like it" situation.

This sounds really awful, but Jessa didn't seem as upset as some of the others. I wonder if it was her turn to be the buddy, and she really didn't want to do it?

For the most part the howlers looked bewildered.

[freejoytoo]

Did Michelle really make her daughters watch her give birth to a dead foetus? I wouldn't want my adult children there with me (though if they asked it would be different). I can sort of see Jill wanting to be there but not the others, especially Joy.

[snarkykitty]

Sarah Walkar is an apprentice midwife.

https://profiles.google.com/118305525256213166802/about

Could Vanessa's last name b e Giron?

Venessa Giron, CPM, LM

http://birthnetworknwa.org/provider-dir ... fery-care/

[lilwriter85]

Did Michelle really make her daughters watch her give birth to a dead foetus? I wouldn't want my adult children there with me (though if they asked it would be different). I can sort of see Jill wanting to be there but not the others, especially Joy.

I wouldn't be surprised if she made her daughters watch. Michelle does seem sweet on camera but I bet when cameras aren't rolling she probably forces those girls to do a lot of things. In the recent episode where Michelle goes to visit her high school friend and speak at the women's conference, Jana didn't look like she was happy there.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Donks is obsessed with any holes relating to the Duggars.

[marmalade]

That could be her last name. She blurred the last few letters of her name so it looked like a blob. Thanks for the great detective work! :D

By the way, the five older girls' names were on the birth certificate, which includes Joy. Those poor girls had to go through their mother's stillbirth birth? How horrifying for them all!

Of course they did, it's a "teaching moment" that will guilt them into Gothard (or hopefully turn them away) for life.

FWIW, that certificate is as fake as the one the pastor gave us when I got married. As a keepsake, not an official record of anything; the real thing was duly signed in private and filed at the courthouse by the officiant. The death of this fetus is not officially recognized. They are just fortunate that for their belief system that either they or TLC footed the costs of that lavish funeral (and likely other parts of the episode) what most people going through that could never afford.

[freejoytoo]

I read on TWOP once that a poster knew the Duggars and that Michelle bossed them around and shouted at them off camera. I don't know if it was true but I can well believe that kind of thing going on. I don't trust Michelle's creepy baby voice.

[Lady]

My guess would be that Jill wanted to be with her mother during the delivery, and maybe Jana too. Jessa and Jinger? Don't know. Joy was probably "encouraged" to be present- another "you're a young lady now, time to start acting like it" situation.

This sounds really awful, but Jessa didn't seem as upset as some of the others. I wonder if it was her turn to be the buddy, and she really didn't want to do it?

For the most part the howlers looked bewildered.

That's exactly what I was thinking, Joy is a "woman" now, so she has to watch the fetus be passed.

[lilwriter85]

I read on TWOP once that a poster knew the Duggars and that Michelle bossed them around and shouted at them off camera. I don't know if it was true but I can well believe that kind of thing going on. I don't trust Michelle's creepy baby voice.

I saw that on TWOP too sometime back when I was reading through some posts about the recent episodes. I also remember another TWOP poster said they knew a former Duggar neighbor who said Michelle was always yelling at the kids years ago. I don't trust Michelle's baby voice either and sometimes you can tell that she plays "sweet" for the cameras. I can picture Michelle off camera shouting at the kids and forcing them to do things right when she wants them done. I believe the Duggars and possibly the J'Slaves do spank the younger kids off camera. I remember there was an episode in which Jinger or Jessa was having difficulties getting Johanna to take a nap and I had the feeling that if a camera wasn't around a spanking would have happened.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

So the show ISN'T "done"? They will be BACK?

[Visionoyahweh]

I'm cynical enough to believe they filmed the birth, but the body was likely decayed to the point where it wouldn't be telegenic enough to be seen, and edited out.

Props to TLC for not showing lingering shots of the body. NILMDTS was thanked in the credits, though.

[donks]

Sounded harsh to me, too, though I will say that maybe I'm just offended because it's referring to miscarriage and that's a raw subject for me. You're already have to deal with birthing a dead baby, but now one of your few memories of your baby/fetus/whatever will be it being likened to shit. Awesome.

I only referred to it in that manner because it's the Duggars. Everything they do grates on me, forcing their kids to watch? Wrong. So, SO wrong.

And yes, I'm quite familiar with the anatomy, lol.

No one has a problem when discusing Anna on her throne.

My apologies to you. Didn't mean to offend anyone but the damn Duggars. *waves middle fingers* HELLO JOSH, YOU HUGE LAZY BASTARD!

[Visionoyahweh]

http://crushable.com/entertainment/dugg ... recap-468/

For the past month or so that I’ve been recapping 19 Kids and Counting under the title of Duggar Miscarriage Update, almost every post has gotten linked to in the Free Jinger forums. This is probably my greatest honor of 2012 so far

We love you, Natalie!