"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[emmiedahl]

Bottom line, and this is the last post I'll make. If you come to America learn English and learn to speak it in such a way that people can understand you. If that makes me an ignorant, racist, elitist bitch then so be it. I don't care.

Can we extend that to Texas? I have a friend whose father is from Texas and I cannot understand a word he says. He sounds like Boomhauer (sp?) on King of the Hill. :lol:

Seriously, though, I think that language is one area in which capitalism works. The companies will make sure that their primary markets are represented. For me, that means that a shopping trip or sometimes even a WIC appointment involves encountering Spanish signs and Spanish-speaking employees. I am NOT the target market. I have found that Spanish speakers are very patient with me and willing to repeat things several times. Usually they speak in imperfect English, I speak in imperfect Spanish, and we manage to understand each other and have a good laugh at the innate humor of the situation.

It is really nice to live in a bilingual, bi-cultural community. Don't fight it, just be patient and kind and assume everyone is trying their best to communicate. A human being. Accept people as they are when you encounter them. No judgment is necessary here. It won't help anything, it will just add to the walls that divide us. [/hippie soapbox]

I am a leftist, I love government intervention! But making English the official language seems too Big Government for me. And it is a rejection of our crazy, multinational American heritage. This is who we are.

[Peas n carrots]

And ignore the fact that you are no better and more judgmental than the fundies or whoever else you snark on.

My husband speaks with an extremely thick accent. He's from Scotland, so yes he grew up speaking English. To this day (4 years after moving here) I still have a very hard time understanding MY OWN HUSBAND on the telephone.

Let me tell you, the first few years he was here he would come home from work mentally exhausted because all day he had to work very hard to make himself understood. Not to mention it was a big blow to self esteem encountering people who had no patience and would seemingly go out of their way to make him feel like shit.

You see, he still encounters people like you on a regular basis...he maybe gets less of it as he's blonde/blue eyed instead of brown and he has found ways to communicate more effectively, but he still gets it. He has had tellers at the bank refuse to help him, has had customers at his work get huffy and insult him, and has even been told on occasion to learn to speak English (???).

The point is, most of these people are trying their damned hardest. All it takes is a few extra seconds and your full attention and a bit of compassion to communicate. Honestly, it's not that hard, and you will probably end up feeling good about yourself.

Edited for riffles

[TVR]

It was people like Geniebelle who helped us decide that Canada was a better option for us when we were immigrating. And we both grew up speaking English, just not with the "right" accent :rolleyes:

Geniebelle, am I understanding correctly that you think that people should learn a particular accent BEFORE moving to another part of the States, even?

[LilMissMetaphor]

Perhaps a good comeback "Well, they'll never learn English from you, you're grammar is godawful."

*please be a joke, please, please*

[Guest Anonymous]

I believe what I have been saying all along is learn to speak English more clearly, not give up the accent. What part of that isn't getting through the very thick skulls around here? Of course the only reply I'm going to get and always get is "GenieBelle don't you get how racist you sound?"

Geniebelle, am I understanding correctly that you think that people should learn a particular accent BEFORE moving to another part of the States, even?

Let me answer it this way, in certain parts the U.S if you say I want a pop....you may not get a soda. So, yeah, I think you should learn to understand the accent.

[Conuly]

I believe what I have been saying all along is learn to speak English more clearly, not give up the accent. What part of that isn't getting through the very thick skulls around here? Of course the only reply I'm going to get and always get is "GenieBelle don't you get how racist you sound?"

Except that you still have yet to explain why foreign accents are qualitatively different from native accents, and why either of them is different from communication difficulties because one or both parties have disabilities that make speech, hearing, or comprehension difficult.

You have also yet to explain why you have a "right" to clear, unhindered communication with... well, anybody. If I think my local store hires rude cashiers, I'll shop somewhere else. If I think that a certain business understaffs to the point where it's always a long wait to get my food, I'll shop somewhere else. If talking to the people at a restaurant is too difficult, vote with your dollars and shop somewhere else. This is really not rant worthy, nor is it difficult.

Yeah, they have (or had at one point) similar things with Ebonics in the United States. It was pretty cool.

More typically people tend to use the term African American Vernacular English (AAVE), probably because "Ebonics" is primarily used as shorthand for "Those n*****s don't know how to talk and they just stick the word be and curse words everywhere, and why do they get to say n***** and I can't" by people who don't even know enough to know they don't know what they're talking about.

[holierthanyou]

I believe what I have been saying all along is learn to speak English more clearly, not give up the accent. What part of that isn't getting through the very thick skulls around here? Of course the only reply I'm going to get and always get is "GenieBelle don't you get how racist you sound?"

Let me answer it this way, in certain parts the U.S if you say I want a pop....you may not get a soda. So, yeah, I think you should learn to understand the accent.

I'm moving from "you sound racist" to "you are racist".

[Peas n carrots]

I believe what I have been saying all along is learn to speak English more clearly, not give up the accent. What part of that isn't getting through the very thick skulls around here? Of course the only reply I'm going to get and always get is "GenieBelle don't you get how racist you sound?"

Let me answer it this way, in certain parts the U.S if you say I want a pop....you may not get a soda. So, yeah, I think you should learn to understand the accent.

I'm still waiting on the answer to my question. My guess is you have never walked a mile in someone who has a thick accent's shoes for one day.

Where I'm from we would call you "a piece of work."

[emmiedahl]

Geniebelle, why are you so important that someone should invest tens of thousands of dollars in speech therapy before they can pour you a cup of coffee? I mean, really? Get off your high horse. I assure you that the vast majority of people are trying their hardest to communicate already.

[Terrie]

Let me answer it this way, in certain parts the U.S if you say I want a pop....you may not get a soda. So, yeah, I think you should learn to understand the accent.

That's not what accent means. :doh:

[PokaDot]

I believe what I have been saying all along is learn to speak English more clearly, not give up the accent. What part of that isn't getting through the very thick skulls around here? Of course the only reply I'm going to get and always get is "GenieBelle don't you get how racist you sound?"

Let me answer it this way, in certain parts the U.S if you say I want a pop....you may not get a soda. So, yeah, I think you should learn to understand the accent.

I think you should take the stick out of your ass. You should also try to not be the type of American that everyone hates and hides in shame when encountered out of the country.

Edit: My mom speaks with a slight accent. She's been in this country since she was 15. You can't help it. Sure, speech therapy helps some, but it can't completely get rid of it.

You know the awesome thing about growing up with someone who spoke with a foreign accent? I can understand practically everyone when they speak to me.

[fundifugee]

No you're not jumping, it makes me think...

Do you mean that German would be easier to learn for a native English speaker than for an Arabic native, or that Spanish is easier for an Italian than for a Dane??

Not being dense, just trying to understand. Languages fascinate me.

Oh, and re: the OP...Yeah I wonder what makes you think they were fundies. They seemed like racist thieves first and foremost.

Interestingly (to me anyway) Spanish has thousands of words in common with Arabic, due to the several centuries of African rule / colonization of Spain.

[Witsec7]

You know the awesome thing about growing up with someone who spoke with a foreign accent? I can understand practically everyone when they speak to me.

QFT

[tropaka]

Again, haven't read through anything other than the OP. So now people are offended by accents?

[Anise]

Interestingly (to me anyway) Spanish has thousands of words in common with Arabic, due to the several centuries of African rule / colonization of Spain.

Didn't the expression "ojala que" come from Allah will that (but obviously not in English)?

[fundifugee]

Interesting coincidence - I just heard on CNN that Ol' Frothy believes that "English should be the official language of the United States".

He's in Puerto Rico campaigning!

Oh, yes, he also expects Puerto Rico to name English as their official language if they want to become an official state :!:

Seriously, this guy F's things up everywhere he goes, and hasn't been laughed out of the race yet?? WTF :?

It is actually worse. Frothy said that Puerto Rico should become a US state, but they would have to comply with the federal law that says that English is the official language. He did say that they could have other official languages, like Hawaii does, but he said they'd have to adopt English as one of them, per federal law.

The problem is that there is no such federal law, and no federally-mandated official language at all.

[Conuly]

Why do they make stuff like this up? Don't they know that people can find out they're lying?

Maybe he thinks the people voting for him are stupid, and I guess they are if they are taken in. He's planning, clearly, on "some of the people ALL of the time" as his strategy.

[BlackHawk]

More typically people tend to use the term African American Vernacular English (AAVE), probably because "Ebonics" is primarily used as shorthand for "Those n*****s don't know how to talk and they just stick the word be and curse words everywhere, and why do they get to say n***** and I can't" by people who don't even know enough to know they don't know what they're talking about.

Yay KY education... I didn't know it was called anything other than Ebonics... most everyone here, including African Americans, call it Ebonics. I'm sure that's regional and not quite south speak... but I learn something new every day 'round here!

Now I shall go google AAVE and see how this all works!

[Conuly]

Well, in retrospect, when I say "more typically" I might mean "more typically by people interested in linguistics", so maybe it's a biased sample group?

[3 is enough]

Spanish, Italian and French are very similar. Knowing French made it very easy for me to understand my Italian mother-in-law, and though I don't speak Spanish, I can read it to some extent because it looks very much like French. Just saying, depending on which language you already know, some are a lot easier to pick up than others.

[LadyBlue]

This thread really makes me wish I had another language or 3. I really wanted to raise bilingual kids, too, but I just never picked up any language well enough. The closest is probably French, which I barely got beyond speaking in present tense, despite having 8 years of French in school. The problem is...it was basically the same year over and over due to moving so much. When I took French in college, I took the classes for those who didn't have high school French and got straight A's because I was doing etre & avoir yet again. Then I took first year university French and got C's & D's because everything was new to me and it was HARD. I'm still jealous my sister was the right age that our moves let her take 3 years of French immersion.

[Guest Anonymous]

The problem is that there is no such federal law, and no federally-mandated official language at all.

But there should be

Sure, speech therapy helps some, but it can't completely get rid of it.

True, but it can make speak English more understandably

Reply with quote

Post Re: "Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

Geniebelle, why are you so important that someone should invest tens of thousands of dollars in speech therapy before they can pour you a cup of coffee? I mean, really? Get off your high horse. I assure you that the vast majority of people are trying their hardest to communicate already.

And what's so special about immigrants that they can't be taught to speak English a little better? There are community education programs out there that can help, and if they're not taking advantage of of such programs, then no, they aren't trying hard at all.

You have also yet to explain why you have a "right" to clear, unhindered communication with... well, anybody.

Ummm....because the majority language in America is English. Every Amierican citizen should be able to walk into any establishment and be able to conduct a transaction or communication in English.

[NurseNell]

And what's so special about immigrants that they can't be taught to speak English a little better? There are community education programs out there that can help, and if they're not taking advantage of of such programs, then no, they aren't trying hard at all.

How many immigrants or refugees do you know? We have a huge population in my city, primarily refugees. They do study English, through community education, through church groups whose members volunteer their time. You don't become fluent overnight. I'm always impressed with just how well they do learning English. I'm not sure I'd do as well if I ended up in a non-English speaking country and had to learn another language.

[Artemis]

I think learning a language in one particular language family does make it easier to pick up others.

I learned English, French, Latin and Ancient Greek at school. With English, I have easily picked up German on my visits, because there are a lot of similarities, and although the sentence structure is different, with the verb at the end, Latin puts the verb at the end of the sentence too, so I can get the structure right. With no formal teaching, but quite a lot of effort in just learning basic vocabulary I can now hold a basic conversation in German. To improve my German I bought German language copies of two English books I have, and read them side by side.

Because I speak French (albeit with a slight English accent which my French friends tell me is quite acceptable) well enough to discuss politics or economics, and have read French fluently from about 16, I can also read Spanish - for example, my new HTC phone, for some unaccountable reason, has the in-phone instructions in Spanish. I haven't bothered to go back to the shop and get it changed because I don't need to. I have never formally learned Spanish, but when I am there I can pick up enough from hearing it and relating it to what I know to have a basic shop or restaurant conversation, though I couldn't have a political discussion.

With French and Latin, I can also make basic sense of Italian, certainly in reading it. I've never been lucky enough to get to Italy, but hope I will go one day, so I can pick up speaking it. I'd like to try Portuguese at some point as I understand it still retains Latin verb forms. Next project perhaps.

When I went to Greece, a few years ago, because I had learned Ancient Greek, which is primarily reading and writing it, not speaking, I managed to pick up enough Modern Greek within a week to make thank-you speeches. (Don't ask - I was there with a delegation of teachers, and there were loads of formal dinners and so on!).

On the other hand, I have no clue about the Slavonic languages, and can barely read the Cyrillic alphabet, so that family of languages is totally closed to me, as are, of course, all languages from different continents than Europe. I really respect people who learn different languages - it makes it so much easier to understand other world views.

Children are amazing with languages - I taught one boy who spoke Ndebele as his home language, and then Swahili, French and English because of where he had moved to. He was only 10. My sister taught two little twin girls once, who at 8 years old spoke Mandarin Chinese, Gaelic and English, and they were by no means unusual in her school. Many British schools have a multiplicity of spoken language, and I feel that it really enriches the culture.

What do you think of multi-lingualism, Geniebelle? Do you speak another language? Have you ever learned one? Have you ever visited a foreign country? Have you ever been to a country where you do not speak the language (I do mean another country, not another region of the USA) and tried to make yourself understood?

[Guest Anonymous]

True, but it can make speak English more understandably

Get thee to an English class, troll. :roll: