Proof that fundies DON'T walk the walk

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Y'all are certainly entitled to your beliefs, but I can think of a lot worse things to be said to someone as you hand them free food.

And it's not holding "aid hostage" when I hand a bag of food/cold water out the window to a stranger beating on my car window and say "Jesus loves you." If I made them listen to a sermon before I gave them food, that could be considered holding aid hostage. But frankly, if I'm giving someone free food and water on a hot day, I think I have the right to say "Jesus loves you." I don't make them agree before handing them the parcel.

If someone were handing me a parcel of free anything, I wouldn't be offended if they said "Allah loves you" or "Hey, come meditate at our temple" or whatever. But I generally don't assign malicious intent to everyone and am generally not easily offended. If you are looking to be offended, you probably will be.

Anyone who follows Christ is commanded by Him to spread the Good News. You cannot be a Christian (one who obeys and follows Christ) without evangelizing.

And it is not self-righteousness that causes me to tell someone "God bless you" or "Jesus loves you," when I have an opportunity to help them. It is the opposite. My heart is selfish and wants to spend money on me and my kids. With six kids, money certainly isn't in an overabundance around here. I say "Jesus loves you" because I believe it to be true AND because I want them to know why I am helping. It is because He has changed my heart and filled me with His love, when my natural tendency is to be self-centered. It is all Him, not me.

Feel free to snark away at my intentions, but I really cannot fathom why saying 3 kind words would be rude. Saying "God hates fags" or some other hateful nonsense? Of course. But telling someone that ANYONE loves them seems like a kind thing to me.

Word.

[Mama Mia]

Wow, it is so incredibly condescending to homeless people to think that the vast majority aren't going to be anything other than happy that someone bothered to give them a f*ing sandwich when they were hungry. No one is going to care if the person handing the sandwich says "Jesus loves you" or "Happy Thursday" or "Here's the address to the shelter" or "Have a nice day"... it is a two second interaction . Most people are not so incredibly self-righteous that an innocuous statement is going to make them THAT uncomfortable. If anything .. it might even help to take away any awkwardness in trying to make conversation about taking the food.

It isn't something I, personally, would say - but I don't usually go to the trouble to make some sandwiches to hand out to people who are hungry.. so why should I get all self-righteous about people who actually DO bother to do something nice while I just drive by ?

[lindsey]

Wow, it is so incredibly condescending to homeless people to think that the vast majority aren't going to be anything other than happy that someone bothered to give them a f*ing sandwich when they were hungry. No one is going to care if the person handing the sandwich says "Jesus loves you" or "Happy Thursday" or "Here's the address to the shelter" or "Have a nice day"... it is a two second interaction . Most people are not so incredibly self-righteous that an innocuous statement is going to make them THAT uncomfortable. If anything .. it might even help to take away any awkwardness in trying to make conversation about taking the food.

It isn't something I, personally, would say - but I don't usually go to the trouble to make some sandwiches to hand out to people who are hungry.. so why should I get all self-righteous about people who actually DO bother to do something nice while I just drive by ?

Are you implying that only Christians / religious people do charity?

Cause that's not true, and if the reason you do it is because you think you need to in order to be a "real Christian" then I'd even argue that it's not truly charity. It's just stroking your own ego and using already powerless people to do it.

Does it still help the homeless person that is given the food? Yes, but it doesn't make it okay to exploit them for your own sake.

We're not a particularly religious country here, so this whole evangelizing thing is weird to me to begin with.

But like someone else pointed out above, atheists can refrain themselves from saying "God doesn't exist" when doing charity why can't Christians?

Several people have already stated that they would be offended, so it makes sense that the same would go for a percentage of the people receiving the charity. If you're truly a good person and you truly respect the people you help, you would stop doing things that might offend other people.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Are you implying that only Christians / religious people do charity?

Cause that's not true, and if the reason you do it is because you think you need to in order to be a "real Christian" then I'd even argue that it's not truly charity. It's just stroking your own ego and using already powerless people to do it.

Does it still help the homeless person that is given the food? Yes, but it doesn't make it okay to exploit them for your own sake.

We're not a particularly religious country here, so this whole evangelizing thing is weird to me to begin with.

But like someone else pointed out above, atheists can refrain themselves from saying "God doesn't exist" when doing charity why can't Christians?

Several people have already stated that they would be offended, so it makes sense that the same would go for a percentage of the people receiving the charity. If you're truly a good person and you truly respect the people you help, you would stop doing things that might offend other people.

I cannot see how you get that implication from what she said. That's some serious reaching.

[Mama Mia]

No I don't at all think that only Christians or religious people are charitable. And it isn't the reason I do it....The vast majority of people (myself included ) don't take the time/make the effort to make some sandwiches to stuff in a bag with some bottles of water to hand out to random homeless people while they are driving around. Making a three word non-hate speech statement while they are doing it should not be a big fucking deal. Most people just aren't that easily offended. I do actually work in the field, and the shit people hear hurled at them all day long is hideous. Someone giving a nice thought as they drive by is not a bad thing (even if they don't personally agree with the concept - they aren't mentally deficient -they can actually separate out the general intention ). People get their panties in a twist over the stupidest garbage.

[freejoytoo]

Don't you think it's condescending to assume that homeless people are going to be so happy to receive food that they are also going to happy to hear some religious message? Whilst I agree that it's better than hearing something negative or cruel I just don't see why you need to tell them Jesus loves them. You don't know what their beliefs are. Why not just give the food without the side order of religion?

I'm not anti-religion, nor am I anti-people discussing their beliefs. What does annoy me is people evangalising. You don't get people in the street handing out pamphlets with the lack of evidence for God so why do religious people have to do it? It's not offensive as much as it's irritating.

[Boogalou]

Y'all are certainly entitled to your beliefs, but I can think of a lot worse things to be said to someone as you hand them free food.

Just because there are worse things to say doesn't mean you should say something only slightly better. I can't call someone a jerk then tell them to stop complaining because at least I didn't call them an asshole.

And it's not holding "aid hostage" when I hand a bag of food/cold water out the window to a stranger beating on my car window and say "Jesus loves you." If I made them listen to a sermon before I gave them food, that could be considered holding aid hostage. But frankly, if I'm giving someone free food and water on a hot day, I think I have the right to say "Jesus loves you." I don't make them agree before handing them the parcel.

I agree you are not holding them hostage. The way you phrased this indicates that by giving someone a sandwich they now owe you something when they do not. You have a right to say whatever you want regardless of what you gave them. However, just because you have the right to say something, doesn't mean you should.

If someone were handing me a parcel of free anything, I wouldn't be offended if they said "Allah loves you" or "Hey, come meditate at our temple" or whatever. But I generally don't assign malicious intent to everyone and am generally not easily offended. If you are looking to be offended, you probably will be.

You wouldn't be offended and that's fine. However, there are multiple people telling you if they were in that situation they would be offended. Your experience is not universal and you do not get to decide how people feel about things. You cannot tell people their feelings are wrong because you have different feelings than them.

Anyone who follows Christ is commanded by Him to spread the Good News. You cannot be a Christian (one who obeys and follows Christ) without evangelizing.

Bull shit. You don't get to decide who is a True Christian and who is not based on your own religion/beliefs/interpretation of the Bible.

And it is not self-righteousness that causes me to tell someone "God bless you" or "Jesus loves you," when I have an opportunity to help them. It is the opposite. My heart is selfish and wants to spend money on me and my kids. With six kids, money certainly isn't in an overabundance around here. I say "Jesus loves you" because I believe it to be true AND because I want them to know why I am helping. It is because He has changed my heart and filled me with His love, when my natural tendency is to be self-centered. It is all Him, not me.

I'm not responsible for my actions!!!!!!! You don't really have to verbalize every thought that passes through your brain and explain your motives to everyone in sight.

Feel free to snark away at my intentions, but I really cannot fathom why saying 3 kind words would be rude. Saying "God hates fags" or some other hateful nonsense? Of course. But telling someone that ANYONE loves them seems like a kind thing to me.

People are saying they find it rude and you, obviously, disagree. I don't always understand exactly why people always feel the way they do but I respect their feelings and don't argue with them. Your feelings and experiences are not universal and you should try to respect how other people feel, Jesus probably would try to do the same.

[valsa]

And keep in mind that we're talking about a 10 second interaction at a stop sign. So it's not about the other person being powerless to respond. We're not having a conversation. I'm giving them a free meal, a smile, a "God bless" or "Jesus loves you," and driving off.

So in other words- yes, what you want to say is more important than what they might want to hear. Got it.

Wow, it is so incredibly condescending to homeless people to think that the vast majority aren't going to be anything other than happy that someone bothered to give them a f*ing sandwich when they were hungry. No one is going to care if the person handing the sandwich says "Jesus loves you" or "Happy Thursday" or "Here's the address to the shelter" or "Have a nice day"... it is a two second interaction . Most people are not so incredibly self-righteous that an innocuous statement is going to make them THAT uncomfortable. If anything .. it might even help to take away any awkwardness in trying to make conversation about taking the food.

It isn't something I, personally, would say - but I don't usually go to the trouble to make some sandwiches to hand out to people who are hungry.. so why should I get all self-righteous about people who actually DO bother to do something nice while I just drive by ?

Yeah, you're totally right. The poor, hungry people should be so grateful for one measly sandwich that they shouldn't care how badly they're talked down to or exploited and should bend over and kiss PFG’s ass in gratitude.

I also personally really like how, when several people here have said that they would be offended (or at least displeased) at being told "Jesus loves you" if they were in the homeless people's position, you jump to "those people must be incredibly self-righteous and easily offended" instead of "Wow, maybe not taking the feelings of the people you're talking to into consideration is just a dick thing to do".

I’d also like to point out that this is perhaps the worst board in the world to try and float the “As long as someone’s intentions are good...†justification. A significant amount of what we do here is tearing into the crappy actions/words of people, a majority of whom have good intentions fueling said actions/words. And just remember, if I see a dirt smudge on your cheek, spitting in your face to help you clean it would also have good intentions, though I somewhat doubt you’d take it in that spirit.

[Dangerous Pony]

Your little "Jesus loves you" is not being uttered in a vacuum. I spent a little time homeless when I was a teenager, and after a while, "Jesus loves you" came to sound like a slap in the face. They're all "Jesus loves you" until you make it totally clear that you are not going to convert to their religion and you would actually rather sleep in a ditch and be hungry than feed their self-image of righteousness. I once had a Christian pastor say that he hoped I got raped out on the street because I refused to read his tracts and made it clear that I wouldn't be converting to his religion. That's probably the worst of it, but I have no idea how many times I was told that I deserved my situation simply for not being Christian. In that context, some lady in an suv with a million kids handing me a PB&J and telling me "Jesus loves you!" would probably have gotten the sandwich thrown at her car as she drove away. I do remember throwing away food that came Nice Church Lady types even when I was hungry because I couldn't stand the condescension that came with it.

That said, there were some really wonderful people, some of them Christian, who helped me out during that time. They weren't the ones who made a big deal out of their religious motivations, though; they just wanted to help because they were actually good people. Not everyone requires their God to tell them to be a decent human being; if you do, you might want to think about what that says about you.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Dipping my toe in the water to say that I, too, would find being told "Jesus loves you" condescending as hell. If you're going to give someone something, just do it, don't use it as an opportunity to preach to them just because they're in the position of being unable to refuse your help.

Maybe that person is completely comfortable in their own faith, whatever it may be - why do you feel the need to throw your religion in their face? It's no different than the people who purposefully say "Merry CHRISTMAS" so self righteously instead of Happy Holidays. Just say "Have a lovely day" and leave religion out of it, for pete's sake.

[valsa]

I'd also like to know how people can justify saying "Jesus loves you" or anything similar in a situation where that clearly contradicts Jesus' actual teachings. Matthew 6:1-6:

Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Unless you don't count the homeless person you're talking to as an actual person, telling them "Jesus loves you" is definitely doing your "acts of righteousness" before men and you're also definitely announcing it with trumpets. Seems like Jesus would prefer you to give while keeping your motivations private.

[pfamilygal]

I'd also like to know how people can justify saying "Jesus loves you" or anything similar in a situation where that clearly contradicts Jesus' actual teachings. Matthew 6:1-6:

Unless you don't count the homeless person you're talking to as an actual person, telling them "Jesus loves you" is definitely doing your "acts of righteousness" before men and you're also definitely announcing it with trumpets. Seems like Jesus would prefer you to give while keeping your motivations private.

That doesn't even make sense. The act isn't telling them Jesus loves them. The act is giving them food. Unless they are blind, they can see you. And we ARE commanded by Christ to share the good news of His love. This makes no logical sense.

And the "trumpets" thing refers to a giving urn in the women's court of the temple. He was saying don't take tons of small coins and drop them in the urn, making a big loud show of your giving at the temple.

I don't tell anyone IRL that we do this and the only reason I told y'all here is that people seem amazed that Christians do anything nice for anyone.

But if you are predisposed to view anything religious as evil, which it seems you are, then I guess it is.

[emmiedahl]

I don't think religion is evil or that Christians never do anything nice.

I *do* think that most Christians are incapable of helping without proselytizing. And you are kind of proving that point.

[valsa]

That doesn't even make sense. The act isn't telling them Jesus loves them. The act is giving them food. Unless they are blind, they can see you. And we ARE commanded by Christ to share the good news of His love. This makes no logical sense.

You are supposed to do the good act (giving food) without calling attention to the righteousness of doing said good act. Not only is the "Jesus loves you" rude on a fundamental level, it also calls attention to the implication that you think you're righteous by giving out the food. You're essentially praying on the streets, so that others can see how godly you are. Also, lots of Christians manage to either not evangelize or at least not do it in a way that is as rude as what you're doing.

But if you are predisposed to view anything religious as evil, which it seems you are, then I guess it is.

Swing and a miss. I think religious people can do wonderful things and be motivated by their religion to do those wonderful thing. They just aren't jackasses about it.

You, on the other hand, seem predisposed to view anything Christian as good. Why else would you cop the attitude of "Of course I mean well by saying "Jesus loves you", how could that ever be seen as anything other than wonderful and magnanimous?" even though it's been pointed out by many people that they would take offense to it.

[pfamilygal]

Okay, that's where I absolutely don't get what you are saying. It do not see how saying "Jesus loves you" is drawing attention to my righteousness. If I said, "I'm so freaking awesome and special for giving you this sandwich," that would be self-righteous.

I don't think everything Christians do is awesome. However, I don't think that a loving statement is rude. It seems to me, however, that the only Christian acts you would approve of are ones in which no one knows that Christianity is even involved. Religion-free religious acts, as it were.

[Patsy]

From now on, whenever I'm finished babysitting a group of kids during a meeting, running a lesson at the community centre, or helping to clean or set something up, I'm going to yell "SOCIAL JUSTICE IS AWESOME!" If anyone finds it weird, I'll assume they disapprove of my reasons for being there. Or something. Because the clients need to know why I do things.

[Mama Mia]

Do you really think someone would find it upsetting or offensive if you DID say (not yell) Social Justice is Awesome ? Probably not.

[Red Molly]

If I said, "I'm so freaking awesome and special for giving you this sandwich," that would be self-righteous.

But to me, someone who does not share your views, "Jesus Loves You" sounds just like that up there. You have no way of knowing how it sounds to the people you are feeding so why say it at all? Unless you are getting some satisfaction out of saying it. Brownie points on the road to heaven?

[Boogalou]

The next time multiple people tell me that they find something I do to be offensive I am going to stick my fingers in my ears an go "lalala, Jesus loves you!" Because really, who cares about other people's feelings? Certainly not Jesus.

[Boltingmadonna]

I say "Jesus loves you" because I believe it to be true AND because I want them to know why I am helping. It is because He has changed my heart and filled me with His love, when my natural tendency is to be self-centered. It is all Him, not me.

Ehh . . . for some reason this just pushes my buttons. I used to say stuff like this, but now it doesn't sit well with me. I'm not self-centered, never have been--at least, not more than is normal and healthy. And the religious indoctrination that made me think I was a horrid sinner was a bunch of crap designed to reduce my natural defenses and make me easier to manipulate. I try to help people when I can because I have normal empathy for a person in trouble, and because I value the idea of living in a decent community, and because I care about justice and fairness. I don't do it because Jesus made me, I do it because I want to. I'm sure there are worse things to say than "Jesus loves you," but I still think that objectifies the recipient of your bounty by turning their suffering into a chance for you to get brownie points from God, instead of respecting them as a person of equal dignity to yourself. Maybe that's not how you mean it. I just know that if you gave me a sandwich and a bright smile and said "Jesus loves you," my personal reaction would be "Fuck right off!" I'd eat the sandwich, but I wouldn't drink the koolaid.

[Boltingmadonna]

@boogalou: LOL!! You win the thread.

[emmiedahl]

The thread? She wins the damn internetz.

[valsa]

And cake!!

[emmiedahl]

This cake:

[valsa]

We could buy a bunch of those and hand them out to homeless people!